A friend spoke to Remington who said the Remington/Spartan 45-70 double will be sent to dealers in 30-60 days .Can anyone confirm this or is it more wishful thinking ??

Chances are that it's wishful dreaming.

The second coming of Christ will likely happen first.

i agree with 577 nitro express

there has to be a reason remington can't / won't bring these in.

but no one knows what it is..... maybe even remington!

I have been hearing this for the 4 years I have known about these guns. I quit holding my breath last year.

mete

why don't you have your "friend" who called remington call back and get the name and job position of the person who gave him that information ?

then it can be followed up and if needed brought to the attention of remington top management who probably haven't the foggiest idea about this russian made junk so avidly sought by dr dreamers.

maybe then you'll get some rifles here. no one on this forum can answer your question unless they work for remington in an executive capacity.

The above posts hit it quite well but I'll add that so far from what I've seen coming from Russia Via Remington it's not worth waiting for!

Vapo: I carried my Spartan/Baikal 12-gauge double in the Sand Hills of your wonderful state for pheasant and sharptails and was very pleased with its handling and performance. It's a stoutly and reasonably well-made tool that is suited to the job, even if it lacks any aesthetic panache. I'm hoping the Spartan double rifles will be similar.

I love my bikal 20 ga sxs they are my favorite shotguns.The have awesome fitting stocks.I might have to check into a 45-70 sxs.A dealer has them listed for $599 I should call to ask when they expect them to be in.

I have been checking periodically with my store-front dealer buddy to see when the Spartan double would show up on the radar screen. All Remington authorized dealers can log into their dealer catalog online with their company PIN to see what models are available at Remington distributors like Guns South.

The Spartan double has never been listed as a catalog item until this week. It is marked as not available but it has the wholesale price listed on the net. The fact that it is on the internet dealer catalog means Remington has a close distribution date and release is near.

He is willing to do a group buy and I will manage it here (given permission from the moderators). He will have an opportunity after Jan 1 to ask to buy direct from Remington for a further discount.

(Remington protects their distributors by refusing to sell direct to dealers during the year but the larger dealers have some loop hole available at the first of each year; I really don't understand the whole deal and don't care but it means a better price to us).

Bottom line, we get a 20-30 gun group buy organized between now and the first of the year we can get a good price. This dealer won't take a deposit until Remington gives him a final price and I post his price to us here on the forums. Then it's just a matter of who wants in.

The deposit will be $100, non-refundable. I'll take verbal commitments anytime but I won't begin collecting deposits until we get the minimum number of buyers (whatever that number ends up being) and Remington is actually delivering rifles. Shipping will be actual to your FFl holder or you can pick it up at his South Texas shop if you are near by.

I know the listed wholesale price and I doubt they will be $599 at most dealers. More like $650-$700 off the rack.

We'll see how it goes.

Harry,

Count me in.

Mike

Tiggertate,I'll be the first to sign up.Let me know when your ready.I've been waiting for one of these for a long while.

Add me to the pipe dream as well.

Tigger: I'm in. Go to the Oz/Kiwi forum and there's a guy who actually has one in .30-06, with photos.
WHERE IN THE HELL IS JEFFE?!

quote:

WHERE IN THE HELL IS JEFFE?!

Hunting. I am sure that Harry will have one set aside for Jeffe.

Jeffe and I were together this weekend on the same hunt. He and I have been working on this for about 6 months now. We just needed some concrete evidence that the guns were getting in the pipeline before we started working up a plan.

There were some number of 30-06 rifles completed before the Remington deal went through and sold in other countries including Canada. A few of these early guns had some serious metalugy issues with full pressure 30-06 loads. That is the biggest part of the Remington delay; getting them re-engineered into something safe.

Is there any information as to what level pressure load the 45070 will take? For example, will the Spartan be able to shoot the higher energy loads offered by Buffalo Bore or others? (I will not use the Garrett name to limit the number of flame mail responses....) Or will this rifle only accept the "standard" velocity 405 loads, offered, say, by Remington?

quote:

Is there any information as to what level pressure load the 45070 will take?

The Remington site calls the pressure limit on the 45/70 28,000. While the ammo maker in question does list some ammo in the 27,000 range most is loaded th 35,000+.

quote:

Originally posted by ramrod340:

quote:

Is there any information as to what level pressure load the 45070 will take?

The Remington site calls the pressure limit on the 45/70 28,000. While the ammo maker in question does list some ammo in the 27,000 range most is loaded th 35,000+.

The actual issue is casehead thrust. if someone can do the math and calculate 30-06 casehead thrust at 58,700 psi, you can extrapolate that as max casehead thrust for the 45-70 at whatever the pressure the calcs say. That would probably be the real max safe working pressure for the 45-70 in the Spartan.

quote:

The actual issue is casehead thrust

THANK YOU ART. KNEW I NEEDED COFFEE. I USED CIRCUMFERENCE
If it is simply casehead thrust. The 06 area is .1756 insg x 58700 equals 10308lbs The 45/70 head is .2902 insg so to have equal trust the PSI is 35522. THIS DATA MAKES A LOT MORE SENSE. SORRY ABOUT THAT.

Or do I need more coffee?

No, it's Miller time! Thanks (although there is a deduct for case wall friction. The 45-70 wins that one hands down).

Tigger,
please go ahead with the plan.. and I am #1 on submission!

jeffe

tigger, i'll believe it when i see it but put me on the list

add me to the list also.... still looking for my 9.3 x 74r in a #1h....

quote:

Originally posted by vapodog:

...so far from what I've seen coming from Russia Via Remington it's not worth waiting for!

I have no information on the Spartan rifles. But I have a Spartan 20 ga. O/U that I like a lot. It's not the equivalent of a $1500 (or more) Beretta or Browning, but it's an awfully good $400 gun. Moreover, it fits me very well and is well balanced so I shoot as well with it as I've ever shot with any other shotgun.

I do hate automatic safeties, so I took it apart and disabled the automatic safety mechanism in it.

Harry, I'm still in for one.

Hog Killer

Ramrod, in the interest of accuracy, I gotta question your numbers, although I think your result is close.

The case head area of a 30-06 is:

((0.473*0.473)./4)*3.14159 = 0.1757 InSq.

This is only about 1/10th your area.

The other point is that the area that really matters is the inner cross sectional area of the case. That is the only area which can generate backthrust. I am not a mechanical engineer (another flavor) but I distinctly remember the pipewall stress calcs we had to learn in statics. Basically, the backthrust is equal to the inner normal area the pressure is applied to, times the pressure.

Assuming the case walls are 0.035 inches thick (may be high), the inner area of a 30-06 is 0.1275 InSq and the inner area of a 45/70 is 0.1772 InSq. This gives a back thrust (without wall grip) of 7484 pounds. Divide this by the 45/70 area of .177s and you get an equivalent pressure 42274 pounds.

Not trying to be argumentative, just that the areas were off so far I wanted to clarify.

PRESS RELEASE,

Elvis, formerly known as the "King" before being abducted by aliens was seen yesterday somewhere down south in Dixie hunting with a Remington/ Spartan double rifle in .45-70.

When asked what he was hunting the man formerly known as the King (TMFKATK) replied with a sneer. "Hey man can't you see, I'm huntin sasquatch man."

As is obvious from this eye witness report, when the elusive and rare spartan SXS double becomes available on Wal-Mart shelves every everywhere, it'll be a fine choice for hunting sasquatch, chuchacabra and mystical beats the world over.

Apparently the delay in getting this product to the consumer has to do with a an injunction filed last week by Jimmy Hoffa and former president John F. Kennedy. Mr. Hoffa sites foreign trade and labor provision for the basis of the injunction and is being backed by the democrat lead organization to keep mystical beats killing devises from getting into the hands of the wrong people.

A.P.

quote:

Not trying to be argumentative, just that the areas were off so far I wanted to clarify

Glad you caught my error.
Lilja calls the inner dia of a 308 .385" if I did it correctly that gives .116insq.

I pulled this from their site.
Bolt Thrust
Bolt thrust is easy to calculate. Only two inputs are required. They are peak chamber pressure in PSI and as mentioned, the inside area of the case head that the gas pressure can work on. The formula then is:

THRUST=AREA*CPSI Where:

AREA=3.1416*(HS/2)^2

HS=the diameter of the inside of the case head.

I sectioned some cases and measured the inside diameters and found that they were as follows:

CARTRIDGE CASE INSIDE DIAMETER (HS)
222 .300"
PPC .370"
308 .385"
MAGNUM .420"
378 WBY MAG .500"
50 BMG .680"

Hope some of this makes up for my brain fart this morning.

quote:

Originally posted by Bill/Oregon:

WHERE IN THE HELL IS JEFFE?!

Back from hunting!!!

i am in for a 45/70 - which probably on't leave the shop until it is a 45/70 nitro

I do some writing for a couple of gun magazines, and have been to about all of the SHOT Shows. I just hung up the telephone with the media/press relations department at Remington. TC checked for me and there are no production guns in the country as of today. There are two containers enroute. There are none in them. She called "upstairs" and asked for a realistic delivery date. She was told "end of the first quarter, 2007...". I have one each, 30-06 and 45-70 confirmed as writers samples; and I am fourth on each caliber list. The quoted answer to the delay question: "...we are still resolving minor durability issues...".
That, my friends, is the official position.

regards,

Rich

I've been hearing next quarter for to long, that's why I didn't do the "I'm in" post.

I was on the other list for one for months until they gave up, I might as well be on this one for one till it runs it's string. Put me in for one 45-70.

quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:
. The quoted answer to the delay question: "...we are still resolving minor durability issues...".
That, my friends, is the official position.

Minor durability issues? on a rifle? Nice.

Anyway, they'll get here sooner or later

jeffe

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:
. The quoted answer to the delay question: "...we are still resolving minor durability issues...".


That my friends is clap trap for
"they ain't alota good"

Exactly how "good" are you expecting a $700 side by side double rifle to be?

Not a lot!

I'm sure I would be in again, but am not holding my breath.

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:

quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:
. The quoted answer to the delay question: "...we are still resolving minor durability issues...".
That, my friends, is the official position.

Minor durability issues? on a rifle? Nice.

Anyway, they'll get here sooner or later

jeffe

And if know us, it won't be long until their durability issues get the acid test.

As to how much double gun do you get for $700? Enough to go bang twice in a row (hopefully) on a single loading or twice as much as two Handi-guns duct-taped together. And you don't even have to buy the tape!

The world's first disposable double?????