if 475 ex means 475 nitro express and NOT #2, it looks in reasonable condition ---

but you ased is it worth it ... and I have to ask, what is "it" ... looks like a good starting place, there is no way of telling fit, bores, or function remotely -

Worth it, worth how much ? The gun has obviously suffered. The overall (poor) condition and the butchered screw slots make me cautious and I would be surprised to find a well cared for bore. Anyway and wathever one would be ready to pay for it, he'd better prepare for additional and sizeable expenses in terms of restoration...

Personally (only my 2 cts, of course), I'd step out of the dealing right here.

How much is the first question!

I have to agree with Andre, its very rough, stock has split at the tang,
screws have been butchered, all in all it needs ALOT of restoration.
Cost to restore maybe prohibitive . Maybe cheaper to get a Hyem or VC
If you want a reliable DG gun to hunt with.


Cheers nick

What is the asking price..?

Condition of the barrels (most important)..?

Is it tight on face..?

It needs recheckering, new oil finish, recoil pad and at least a reblue of the barrels..

If .475 mean .475 3 1/4 (Straight) then ammo is available from Kynoch, cases from Bertram and bullets from Woodleigh (.483).

I have a similar rifle in that caliber from an other english make.

I would argue if restoration cost is not completely over the top it would be a nicer, more historic rifle to own..

Bore condition is the only thing that can't be restored. All else can be returned to new--at a price.
Cal

Naki;

This rifle was a very fine rifle in its day and if the barrels are original to the rifle, it is most unusual--it has high quality chopper lump barrels. Not common on a Birmingham made double rifle. The overall condition of the rifle suggest is was well used, but does not appear to have been abused. As others have said it all depends on the barrel condition. This rifle may have a history well worth investigating; and Chris Batha, late of England now living in America owns the records for Boswell. Chris is a shooting editor for "Shooting Sportsman" magazine here in America, as well as operating a shooting school. I have called him in the past and waited while they looked a Boswell serial number up in the Boswell order/shop books. I recommend that you look Chris Batha up on the web and call him. He was living here in South Carolina 3 years ago when I last contacted him.

This rifle may have been built by Leonard in Birmingham, as its style and craftsmanship suggest. Notice how well made and thick the standing breech and the barrel extension is made on this rifle, even after nearly a century it still looks, smells and feels like quality even with only photos.

Regards;
Transvaal

Naki;

I would like to say further (As a craftsman who restores English guns, as well as re-engraving them): whilst the rifle is old, the rifle does not exhibit signs that it has been butchered the pins(screws)exhibit signs that they have been removed a few times. If this rifle had been "butchered" the re-moveable striker discs in the breech face would be in such a condition that it would require them to be drilled to remove them as the spanner holes would be completely out of use. This is not the case.

When an old English rifle or gun is placed into my hands, there are several items I observe immediately. One is the triggers. A quality English double gun/rifle will have triggers that the curves of the triggers back and front that look like they were made to emulate the "golden rule": another the standing breech face--is it corrosion so bad that it will require stoning the face down to make it right--then I look at the bores and not just look down the bores but into each inch of the bore and in the case of a rifle at the chamber exits.

As to the stock of this rifle--look at its caliber and that it is nitro proofed and that it likely has been used to cull Tigers there in India. You would expect a nearly 100 year old rifle that took the pounding of .475 cartridges to have a cracked stock.

Have the current owner to photograph the barrels from the breech and muzzle and ask him to position a lamp to allow some inspection of the barrels bores.

When I lived in Africa, I would have been delighted to find a rifle for sale like this in country to rebuild. However, I will say again contact Chris Batha and learn of the history of this rifle.

Regards and good luck;

Transvaal

Actually most rifle of that period were chopper lump barrels. Without seeing if there is a 3-4 digit number on the under rib, it looks like a Leonard made rifle.
Everything is repairable except bores. Stocks are a minor annoyance. IS it worth it?

I love vintage English double rifles. They are also a pain. New rifles, new metallurgy, spare parts, guarantees. . . .Unless you have an historical attachment to the rifle, I'd say NOT WORTH IT. Just my opine!

Rusty;

You are not fully correct on you comment.

The Double rifle in question is a Birmingham made Anson & Deeley (boxlock) rifle for Charles Boswell of London. All London made barrels of that era were chopper lump as they are today. Most all(likely nearly 99%) Birmingham made barrels then as well as today, whether rifle or shotgun were dove tail lumped. When Birmingham gun and rifle makers made best quality London pattern guns (and in some cases best quality Anson & Deeley --boxlocks) and rifles they offered the buyers a choice of chopper lump barrels in several grades of steel. The late Jack Rowe English gunsmith trained in Birmingham just after WWII was often heard to say in his lectures: "Birmingham barrel makers could make both types, however, London barrels makers could not make dove tail lump barrels as they were only trained to make chopper lump barrels; and looked down their nose on dove tailed lump barrels of Birmingham, even though we were the best barrel makers because we could do what the London barrel makers could not".

I call you attention to the excellent photo of Les O'Rourke on page 60 in Graeme Wright's 3rd edition of "SHOOTING THE BRITISH DOUBLE RIFLE" showing a Charles Boswell (in 2nd grade quality) .500 NE Birmingham made boxlock with Birmingham made dove tail rifle barrels--which were the norm and Birmingham standard.

Regards;
Transvaal

Interesting information gents, thanks.

I have a W. J. Jeffery .450 No. 2 box lock made 1906 for Lyon & Lyon of Calcutta. Chopper lump barrels.

Paul;

Here is something that I remember a Birmingham gunsmith/gunmaker (now passed on to other workbenches) telling me that that he remembered hearing the "old timers who were training him" talk about when Mr Jeffery would take the train up to Birmingham and go to many of the gun and rifle makers to get prices for the making of firearms the following year for Jeffery's. Who gave the lowest price had the work--even if the difference was less than one Pound Sterling. According to my friend he said that his Birmingham elders who remembered dealing with Mr. Jeffery usually called him a skinflint or something like that. However Mr. Jeffery knew how to get the best work for the best price and he knew who did the best work.

My distant distant cousin Arthur Howell of Arthur Howell & Co. Gun & Rifle Makers, was a gun and rifle maker there in Birmingham, but I doubt that he made any rifles for Jeffery--maybe some shotguns as he was in business from 1901 to 1957 in Weaman Street. Arthur's wife threw his gun records in the burn pile one Autumn after he died.

I know that you must be proud of Birmingham made jewel of a rifle--the Jeffery's are much sought after today.

Transvaal aka Stephen Howell

Thanks, Stephen, that is very interesting.

I took the Jeffery to Zimbabwe last month and shot a buffalo with it. What a privilege that was.

I bought it from Mike Schwandt a couple of years back; he said it was a Leonard made rifle. Rusty recommended I look near the barrel hook for a Leonard serial number but there isn't one. There are small L stamps on it though, next to the Krupp stamps.

It is indeed a fine old rifle.

Worth it? I'll start the bidding at a solid $100.

Paul;

Your rifle is almost with certainty made by Leonard if it has the "bow backed" action, sometimes called the "cut away" action by action filers in Birmingham. Jeffery called the action in their catalog "shaped back". As a matter of fact Doug Tate, the English gun/rifle authority (now living in Oregon), says that nearly all, IF NOT ALL, Jeffery boxlocks were made by Leonard, and that their association goes back to 1880 when the two firms had shops one block apart in Queen Victoria street, London. Saunders, in Whittal Street, Birmingham is known to have made some shotguns for Jeffery.

It is good to hear that you went to Zimbabwe. What a shame and disgrace what has happened to that beautiful country. I have not been back to Zim in 20 years, although I have been over to Botswana for some business reasons in precious jewel mining sector back in 2009. Living in the mountain uplands of Zimbabwe would have been like living the ideal life and climate, in the pre-1960's. Truly God's country--maybe that is where the Garden of Eden was.

If you have an opportunity go to Namibia for a hunt and holiday--it is still pristine. Go before too many people learn of its joys and ruin it.

Transvaal

Stephen:
Really appreciate your contributions to this site. I love the history of the English gun trade. Feel free to chime in any time as I know most, if not all here, really appreciate you sharing your knowledge.

Dutch

quote:

Originally posted by Dutch44:
Stephen:
Really appreciate your contributions to this site. I love the history of the English gun trade. Feel free to chime in any time as I know most, if not all here, really appreciate you sharing your knowledge.

Dutch

Amen! Great stuff. It would be interesting to learn a little bit about you and how you developed such an indepth knowledge of the English gun trade if you would not mind sharing.

Gents I will post some photos of the
Jeffery. It is indeed a scalloped or cut back box lock. Excited to know it might be a
Leonard made rifle. Thanks a million.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Transvaal:
Naki;
As to the stock of this rifle--look at its caliber and that it is nitro proofed and that it likely has been used to cull Tigers there in India.

While this may be the case with your Boswell, it may have just been the standard engraving pattern of the time for this rifle. I own a Jeffery .475 No. 2 double that belonged to the late Owain Lewis, PH for Chifuti Safaris. It is engraved with tiger scenes on both sides of the receiver. My research uncovered that it was a 1920 vintage Leonard made rifle. The Jeffery catalogue for 1920 shows my exact rifle with the tiger scene engraving, which appears to have been "standard" for this working grade rifle. Good luck with your research on the Boswell - if the bores are in good condition, I would not hesitate restoring it.

.
Go for it ! You can never have enough toys!

Wood and pad are just cosmetics. If the barrels are good you will have a heck of a double there.

Any hope that you are going to spill the beans on the Price?

Cheers

The asking price is around US$9k. But it will be a real challenge to get it out of the country.

I have given up on it.

Stephen,
My experience with pre-WW1 Birmingham rifles has been the opposite. I have found most one I have handles have been Chopper Lump.

Always good to share information.

quote:

Originally posted by Nakihunter:
The asking price is around US$9k. But it will be a real challenge to get it out of the country.

I have given up on it.

Yes it will be a challenge. And it's not that easy getting it into this country. I just imported a .350 no2 Rigby from overseas and it was 9 months and $2000 in postage and fees. If you want the details, PM me.
cal

C'mon Paul, two measly pictures? Where are pictures of the barrel flats, the water table, the receiver face, the right side of the receiver. Stop being a tease.

Well Mike, I thought maybe that one photo showing what is possibly the finest known example of the engraving arts would do it.

I will try to take some close up photos but I'm not sure my camera is capable of that sort of thing.

During that era they were more focused on what was on the inside of the rifle . . . today we are more focused on what is on the outside of the rifle. I think they had it right.

Paul;

From what I can see you have a very fine made dbl rifle and in very good original condition, made for use as a tool and that when it was needed it would work ever time and save you from injury to life and limb. Don't be too harsh on the engraving. Engravers in Birmingham at that time were one of the lowest paid craftsman, and were not trained in the engraving arts and what three dimensional thinking and drawing skills they had were what they were born with. Most of them had never seen anything but barn yard animals, hence their engraving style.

I would be delighted to have your beautiful rifle.

Your rifle's engraving has a feature that I do not believe I have ever seen before on a game scene engraving of gun or rifle; and that is the absence of any other engraving--not even a single line border.

That representation of a Gaur is not uncommon in Leonard / Jeffery rifles of that period. So also a lean and skinny tiger is quite common.

As much as I treasure my Wilkes .600,, the animals engraved on the action look like a kid did them--during a severe earthquake--in the dark--whilst having a seizure. Maybe a wooly bear with pigs ears and a rhino horn (?). The elephant is OK I guess. Cats, I think they are. Maybe Shootaway was correct after all--they are just garbage.
Cal

quote:

Originally posted by Nakihunter:
That representation of a Gaur is not uncommon in Leonard / Jeffery rifles of that period. So also a lean and skinny tiger is quite common.

A quick tour around my A. Hollis and Son. Circa 1912.










While doing research on Jeffery and Leonard rifles we found that Leonard's number stamped on the under rib is also stamped on the action and ink stamped on all the rifles wood parts as well. This shows that the rifles when ordered by Jeffery, Hollis and others was sent to them completed as to the customer's specifications.

Nice Rusty!!

Thanks gents for the photos and information.

Stephen, here is a rifle that George Caswell had or has for sale, it is very similar to mine other than the .475 No. 2 chambering. Same type of engraving without a border.

http://www.champlinarms.com/De...StyleID=3&GunID=2588

I make fun of the engraving but actually I like it; there is no mistaking the period it was made in. And I love the rifle.

I would certainly enjoy restoring that rifle. If one of you is considering that I can help with the importing as well.

I have the "little brother" to the rifle in India, a circa 1907 Boswell on 450-400 3 1/4".

What type of barrels are these?

Hard to tell, shoe lump or dovetail lump I would guess. Does not appear to be chopper lump. A picture from the chamber end might help.

Mike;

Those are dovetail lump barrels. A quick way to determine is look for brazing lines down the middle of the lumps--equal chopper lump; if no lines down the middle of lumps look for brazing lines each side of the lumps on barrel flats (what your barrels have) and if you see them that equals dovetail lumps.

quote:

Originally posted by Rusty:
A quick tour around my A. Hollis and Son. Circa 1912.










While doing research on Jeffery and Leonard rifles we found that Leonard's number stamped on the under rib is also stamped on the action and ink stamped on all the rifles wood parts as well. This shows that the rifles when ordered by Jeffery, Hollis and others was sent to them completed as to the customer's specifications.

Love the tiger and elephant engraving on your Hollis Rusty. Coolest game scenes I've seen from that Era by far.