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Later this morning, I'll test drive what came by FedEx yesterday. Can't wait! If I don't have to throw it in the garbage can, I'll brag on my luck... I ratted out myself to Jorge. The rest of you can speculate but for now I just say "Pristine muzzles, five-pound triggers with no creep and NIB with written guarantee from a solvent retailer". All life has risks, of course... let's see if I got really lucky when I spent almost 50% less than original retail? Pics to come of of the double, targets and me with a big cat-eating-the-canary smile or a they-told-me-so grimace. Better than planting the hedge I promised Sandy, anyway. JudgeG ... just counting time 'til I am again finding balm in Gilead chilled out somewhere in the Selous. | ||
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Sabaitti from Cabellas? NRA Life ASSRA Life DRSS Today's Quote: Give a man a fish and he eats for a day. Give a man a welfare check, a free cell phone with free monthly minutes, food stamps, section 8 housing, a forty ounce malt liquor, a crack pipe and some Air Jordan's and he votes Democrat for a lifetime. | |||
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I reckon so. Previously 500N with many thousands of posts ! | |||
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Judge, Hope your test drive goes better than mine. Mine went back and now a Merkel's on it's way to me. DRSS Sabatti 450\400 NE Merkel 140-2 500 NE | |||
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I'm just hoping its a sabatti in 45-70 to be used for DG... | |||
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Oh no...here we go again. | |||
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....Mac >>>===(x)===> MacD37, ...and DUGABOY1 DRSS Charter member "If I die today, I've had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"~ME 1982 Hands of Old Elmer Keith | |||
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OK… So I was being a smartazz above. There is a Sabatti at the local cabellas… It's a small frame 45-70 and it would be mine right now if I had not come across a gorgeous little siace in the same caliber. I've gone to see and hold that little sabatti 3 times. In fact, they have five or six sabatti's at that store and none of them have the ground muzzles. These seem to be well made and well handling DR's (other than the opti-wood with the machine cut checkering). I would not hesitate to own one. I think a little Harry Potter is in order here… For future reference these Sabatti's should be referred to as "…The rifle who must not be named…" | |||
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JDA-CO, the fact that none of them have ground muzzles is not an indication that they were regulated properly. It is still a crap shoot as to it shooting both barrels in the same county! Make sure it can be returned if it doesn't! Everyone wants to kill the messenger here, instead of putting the blame where it belongs, ON THE MAKER! ............................ ....Mac >>>===(x)===> MacD37, ...and DUGABOY1 DRSS Charter member "If I die today, I've had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"~ME 1982 Hands of Old Elmer Keith | |||
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I hope yours shoots as well as mine! Your a brave man posting a Sabatti purchase on here! Full time professional trapper | |||
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Mac - I can't disagree with you. Makers have to own the reputation of their products. When I was contemplating buying "The rifle that must not be named", I was also going to put aside the $$ to have it regulated if need be. If you get one that shoots (as many around here have), then for a couple of grand you can get into DR's. I don't think anyone who buy's one of these is expecting H&H quality… Just a DR for the average guy. I don't/can't understand why everyone bashes a $2,100 double rifle… What's the point? Yeah, they had some problems - It's $2,100… It's ONLY $2,100… | |||
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I hope he gets one that shoots. In fact, I wish everyone had got one that shoots, then we would have a heap more double rifle shooters, many new. I wish the whole lot were pulled off the market and taken back and redone, then it wouldn't be a crap shoot. Good luck with it Judge. Previously 500N with many thousands of posts ! | |||
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I think it is a bespoke Westley Richards drop lock. Hopefully it is the long bar Searcy, good luck with it. Mike | |||
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Okay, folks: Here's the deal... I have read just about every Sabatti thread here. I've shot two, both in DG calibers and with the funky engraving and animal on the opening lever. Both shot well, one with ground muzzles and the other without. I, however, couldn't warm to the laser engraving, etc. The balance just didn't seem right and until you bought your rifle, you didn't quite know what you had.... no one like Butch Searcy ready and willing to fix any problem. Regardless of the caliber, I'd not have an OptiWood version. So... when Cabela's started lowering prices, I wasn't much interested in the DG variety. We have tons of hogs down here, and I kind of thought a double 9.3x74 or .45/70 might be nice, but why take a chance at a bunch over $3K for the "lesser" calibers. Then, with a wild hair, I called the Lacy, WA Cabela's and asked about a .45/70 they had. Dang guy I talked to offered to call corporate and get the bottom line for the price. I had a coupon for $100 off and a free shipping ticket too. My competitive nature took over and I negotiated a price that's almost $2000.00 less than what some guys paid. Reasoning: I had a written promise, albeit an email, of being able to send it back if it had ground bores or other problems.... and that's to Cabela's , and not the importer. Shipping was free, too, both ways. No sales tax, whoopee! I bought the darn thing just to see if I was an idiot, I guess. Well, I shot it today. At least, so far, I guess I'm pretty smart. The rifle comes to shoulder perfectly, even with the 15" l.o.p. The triggers are a bit more than I'd choose, but quite crisp. At 7#, it is a joy to carry.... And the below target shows great consistency and more than "usable" regulation with Hornady 325 grain LeveReveloution ammo. An explanation of the target: With a Sharpie, I made a circle upon which (at 50 yards) the front sight subtends the white portion of the ring. The first six shots were made with the front bead covering the white in the center. The top of the bead was aligned with the top of the rear sight, even thought the rear sight has two fiber optic green beads imbedded about 1/2 way down the sight. I shot this way because I wss more interested in the regulation than sight alignment. I shot off shooting sticks with my hand under the forearm with the target at 50 yards and my right forearm resting on an extended portion of the shooting stick contraption I've made for shooting consistently. Shots R1 and L1 were about 4" high and spread about 2" with the left barrel 1/2" higher than the right. R2 and L2 about touched the first set and R3 was called a bit low with L3 pretty darn close to the two prior from that barrel. So.... I did my hunting hold for R4 and L4... all fiber optics level in the sight picture which makes the front bead lower than the top of the rear sight. When hunting with iron sights, I like to bullet to touch the top of the bead, so to speak.... and they just about did, albeit 2" apart. With an expended .45/70 case as a measure, the "hunting hold" shots are, as I said, 2" apart (same as the first 6, too) and holding as I will hunting, right on the mark! I didn't win the lottery today, but, with all the problems others have had, I kind of felt I won something! So.... You win sometimes, and you lose sometimes. I guess, so far, I'm one of the fortunate few.... but time will tell, I reckon. Keep your fingers crossed for me, please. Not a bad weekend, 'cause for about $2k I got a pretty good hog and bear double. Can't wait to put on the included scope mount and a Leupold 1.5-5x and see what happens. JudgeG ... just counting time 'til I am again finding balm in Gilead chilled out somewhere in the Selous. | |||
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Judge Good stuff. Well done and nice target. Previously 500N with many thousands of posts ! | |||
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Wonderful for you to have it shoot just right!!!!! You're a good guy and I'm sure all of us are smiling on your behalf. | |||
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...............Plus one! Look out boar and bear, cuz heah come de Judge! .............................................................. ............... ....Mac >>>===(x)===> MacD37, ...and DUGABOY1 DRSS Charter member "If I die today, I've had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"~ME 1982 Hands of Old Elmer Keith | |||
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Judge, Glad you got one that shoots well and at a killer price. My 450/400 is the same but the last one in 500 NE had to go back despite a nice price. Looking forward to the inaugural hunt report. DRSS Sabatti 450\400 NE Merkel 140-2 500 NE | |||
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Ernest, I think you should send them another $2,000, just so you feel better :-) | |||
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But, how could this be? Everyone knows that Sabatti didn't regulate them properly, just look at the online regulation video! And, their shooting, shown on same video, shows that their jig doesn't allow the rifle to recoil properly for real regulation, so it couldn't have been done correctly. Everyone knows that Sabatti doesn't know how to properly regulate double rifles. Also, everyone knows that nobody can make a decent double rifle for less than around $10,000. Never mind that I happen to have four of their doubles, none with the muzzle rifling filed or ground away, and all regulated well, shooting even better than this one, and I know a good number of other ones owned by other people that are also regulated well, so, again, how can this be? Sabatti has to be the luckiest maker on planet earth, having even some well regulated; not knowing what they are doing! Everyone knows, too, that some of them have ribs put on with epoxy. And the ribs fall off. Never mind that some guys now have shot their Sabatti doubles around 1000 times, and ribs are still --just fine; thank you. Never mind too that I personally have re-regulated two of them, finding the Sabatti factory ribs put on in normal common manner, using soft solder, same as is found on classic old doubles from the British, the German, and others, that I have re-re-regulated through the years no epoxy seen. But, didn't JJ find that Sabatti doubles don't have a mid point regulation wedge? Yes he did; it is true, they don't have a mid point regulation wedge. However, numerous other old classic double rifles, especially German ones, don't have a mid point wedge either. Fact is, I am presently re-regulating a Clamshell German 9.3 x 74R, made in 1900, because it was originally regulated for a lighter weight bullet than what I now want it to be regulated for, and IT HAS NO MID POINT REGULATION WEDGE EITHER, SAME AS SABATTI. One final time, how can this be that Sahatti isn't the junk portrayed by so many? | |||
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by doubleriflejack: But, how could this be? Everyone knows that Sabatti didn't regulate them properly, just look at the online regulation video! And, their shooting, shown on same video, shows that their jig doesn't allow the rifle to recoil properly for real regulation, so it couldn't have been done correctly. Everyone knows that Sabatti doesn't know how to properly regulate double rifles. Also, everyone knows that nobody can make a decent double rifle for less than around $10,000. Never mind that I happen to have four of their doubles, none with the muzzle rifling filed or ground away, and all regulated well, shooting even better than this one, and I know a good number of other ones owned by other people that are also regulated well, so, again, how can this be? Sabatti has to be the luckiest maker on planet earth, having even some well regulated; not knowing what they are doing! Everyone knows, too, that some of them have ribs put on with epoxy. And the ribs fall off. Never mind that some guys now have shot their Sabatti doubles around 1000 times, and ribs are still --just fine; thank you. Never mind too that I personally have re-regulated two of them, finding the Sabatti factory ribs put on in normal common manner, using soft solder, same as is found on classic old doubles from the British, the German, and others, that I have re-re-regulated through the years no epoxy seen. But, didn't JJ find that Sabatti doubles don't have a mid point regulation wedge? Yes he did; it is true, they don't have a mid point regulation wedge. However, numerous other old classic double rifles, especially German ones, don't have a mid point wedge either. Fact is, I am presently re-regulating a Clamshell German 9.3 x 74R, made in 1900, because it was originally regulated for a lighter weight bullet than what I now want it to be regulated for, and IT HAS NO MID POINT REGULATION WEDGE EITHER, SAME AS SABATTI. One final time, how can this be that Sahatti isn't the junk portrayed by so many?[/QUOTE I for one have never claimed the Sabbatti's were junk. But the ground muzzles were unexcusable, regardless of the price. I've always thought they are a great buy if you can get one that shoots well and doesn't have ground muzzles. Congrats on owning 4 that apparently don't have those issues. I would love to own one in .450/400 if I knew it was well regulated and no ground muzzles. JP Sauer Drilling 12x12x9.3x72 David Murray Scottish Hammer 12 Bore Alex Henry 500/450 Double Rifle Steyr Classic Mannlicher Fullstock 6.5x55 Steyr Classic Mannlicher Fullstock .30-06 Walther PPQ H2 9mm Walther PPS M2 Cogswell & Harrison Hammer 12 Bore Damascus And Too Many More | |||
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What's that saying about a Chimpanzee and a typewriter? :-) | |||
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Likewise. Not many said they were junk but many said that what occurred was wrong. doubleriflejack Not having a mid wedge is not an issue. Why make it one ? Previously 500N with many thousands of posts ! | |||
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Sandy always said you were smarter than you look. Now about the hedge... Rich | |||
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Welcome to the club of happy Sabatti owners. For a while we were oft looked upon as lower than lepers, but for the money, if well regulated, IT IS A GREAT RIFLE! Enjoy yours, I was looking at the 9.3's but stumbled upon (hope you are sitting down)a Baikal in 30-06. My buddy owns the shop and told me, go shoot it, if you like it, its $600. That little rig will flat out shoot with factory rem 180gr core lokts. I love that rifle and usually have it with me in the truck or on the 4whlr. I just don't tell anybody about it! Nothing wrong with having a smooth running toyota in the garage for daily use. P.S. This old girl never even blinked when she saw the laser engraving. "The difference between adventure and disaster is preparation." "The problem with quoting info from the internet is that you can never be sure it is accurate" Abraham Lincoln | |||
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I guess my question is, if Sab regulates them all properly, why did you have to reregulate two of them? I almost bought one too, but too many of them have problems for me to take a chance on one... DM | |||
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Damn DRJ! 350 words all in one paragraph! I started to write a detailed response but It took me so long to separate the different subjects, so I could read It, I got so tired I had to give up and go to bed. I'll try again tomorrow! ........................................................... Will wonders never cease! ....Mac >>>===(x)===> MacD37, ...and DUGABOY1 DRSS Charter member "If I die today, I've had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"~ME 1982 Hands of Old Elmer Keith | |||
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Agree, talk about shooting yourself in the foot ! So he has had 50% of his firearms needing re regulating. Seems to be about the same amount that others found that haven't shot. Previously 500N with many thousands of posts ! | |||
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.................................OOPS! ....Mac >>>===(x)===> MacD37, ...and DUGABOY1 DRSS Charter member "If I die today, I've had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"~ME 1982 Hands of Old Elmer Keith | |||
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Well it is tomorrow, and here is the response to your 350 word paragraph!
In the first paragraph it evident you simply do not know what a JIG is! The nearest thing in that film to being a JIG was the adjustment fixture used to tighten down the muzzles on the different regulating wedges for soldering in! What you are calling a JIG is a mechanical shooting rest, to moderate the recoil for the shooter, not a JIG! In most shotgun makers shops a JIG is a fixture that will hold four or five barrel sets at a time with each space for a barrel set adjusted on the one barrel set that is physically regulated in that abortion of a rest the regulator was using in that film. The only thing wrong with that shooting rest is that it doesn’t allow the rifle to recoil in the normal manner. If the side ear were made in a wide “V” rather than vertical tight up against the barrels it would allow the rifle to recoil away from the other barrel while rising. Still the rest of those rifles in that caliber would be simply fitted into a gang JIG and soldered all the exact same way. A JIG is a large gang fixture that is adjusted on a barrel set that was regulated in that shooting rest, so that all additional doubles in that caliber can be placed in the pre-adjusted JIG and soldered together without having to shoot the barrels at all. The concept looks like a sure thing! The only problem is It doesn’t work on double rifles. That works fine for shotguns but simply doesn’t work for a double rifle. With this procedure you could build ten double rifle barrel sets in that JIG and every one of them will shoot differently. This is especially true if the original barrel set was regulated in the shooting rest they used. That is because the rest he used to regulate, once removed from that rest will not shoot the way it did in the rest, because it will now be allowed to recoil in a normal manner! Allowed to recoil UP and AWAY from the other barrel, So the barrels were improperly regulated in the first place, but even if it was, the JIG system will not work, simply because the barrels are all aligned the same only a small percentage will shoot acceptably. So it is evident from your very well written post that not everyone knows of what they speak.
If done properly it can be done today in the $10K range if the DIME STORE BLING is left off and the cost it spent on regulation and proper fitting! SO here again, not everyone knows how to build a reliable well regulated double rifle for that amount, or that putting lipstick on a pig doesn’t make it anything but a painted pig. The four SABs you say you have with no grinding are that way because,if they exist, they are some of the ones that came out of that gang JIG that happened to shoot well; It is the ones that came out of that gang JIG that didn’t shoot well, that were ground inside the muzzles instead of re-regulating them properly, some dim-wit grabbed the grinder. If the barrels had all been individually regulated properly in the first place there would have been no need to re-regulate them at all.
On the sentence in bold above, we absolutely agree! I have zero idea where the being put on with epoxy came from! The only double rifles I am aware of that were regulated and the ribs all installed with a space age glue used to hold the tiles on the space shuttles as a heat shield for re-entry was the ROGUE RIVER doubles that were later to became the Cal Rigby, but the ones with the Rigby name were regulated in the normal manner with solder. The Rogue River rifles were regulated about like a cheap shotgun, holding both barrels in a 30 inch pattern! Another JIG regulation job that was dumped very quickly.
DRJ, on this we can agree! Most vintage doubles are not fitted with a mid point wedge, the silver soldering of the front sling swivel eye base usually has extended saddles that are silver soldered to both barrels for strength and stabilization of the mid point of the barrels. The mid point wedge is not a regulating wedge but a barrel stabilizer. Regulation is only done by moving the muzzle wedge at the end of the barrels. Once the barrels are soldered by educated guess, ribs installed the movements of the wedges by trial and error at the muzzles are microscopic in measurement, and is done at the muzzle only! DRJ the JIG system has been tried over and over throughout history, and all REAL double rifle makers found long ago that it simply doesn’t work consistently with double rifles. Shotguns are a zebra of a different stripe, however, but every time a shotgun manufacturer decides he will start building double rifles it is tried again! They find out pretty quickly that it doesn’t work. Now what everyone SHOULD KNOW is there are no short cuts to regulating a double rifle, or fitting barrels to action! Both cost money, and time. It is quite evident that some here don’t understand that! The above is my response. and it is up to the reader to believe it or not! It cost nothing but time to read it! This my last word on this tread, and I apologize to Judge G for DRJ, and myself for high-jacking of his post, and am happy that his rifle shoots properly, and is worth keeping! ....................................................................................BYE ....Mac >>>===(x)===> MacD37, ...and DUGABOY1 DRSS Charter member "If I die today, I've had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"~ME 1982 Hands of Old Elmer Keith | |||
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Mac, wow, that's quite an essay you've written there! Better go take a nap :-) | |||
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Looks like a dead pig to me. Congrats and pretty work! Deo Vindice, Don Sons of Confederate Veterans Black Horse Camp #780 | |||
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Congrats! It appears to shoot quite well for the money spent. I'd say that you did well for yourself. | |||
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Excellent results Judge! I'm in the GA Woods near Folkston after work today. USN (ret) DRSS Verney-Carron 450NE Cogswell & Harrison 375 Fl NE Sabatti Big Five 375 FL Magnum NE DSC Life Member NRA Life Member | |||
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________________________________ Biebs: Mac, "wow, that's quite an essay you've written there! Better go take a nap" Mac, I second that. Blah, blah, blah, you sure can dish out your crap. You couldn't resist attacking me, could you? What a pompous Texan ass. Have a nice day, pops. | |||
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I had thought really hard about a Sabatti. Even went back to the South Denver store to look at them again. Thought about offering them $2,500 for one of the DG guns. When I got there, the price had gone from $3,799 to $5,999. Turned around and left. Just have to live with what I got!!! DRSS Beretta 45-70 belgian mag Tikka 512S 9.3 x 74R Baikal o/u 30-06 Looking for next one | |||
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It has to shoot in the bullseye over and over for as long as the bore lasts-then we are talking-regardless of the price,origin,etc...fit and handling is important to but unless it shoots you got nothing-we can live without the looks or the jewelery thing. | |||
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____________________________ Where did I ever say that Sabatti regulates them ALL properly? At least get your facts straight! I didn't have to re-regulate two of them, but was asked to do so by two friends, who own them, because they were originally regulated so so, shooting about 3" spread, which is the STANDARD, after all, and not bad, but they weren't happy with that. They wanted me to try to get them shooting 2" spread or less, which can usually be done, but it takes time and patience to do so. That is why I did it. | |||
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DRJ I did not attack you at all, but I did correct some of your misinformation. SON, If you can't handle the heat stay the hell out of the kitchen where the grown up cooks work! In my experience when a poster resorts to name calling it usually means he has no base to shoot from! If you don't get YOUR facts straight someone here will correct you every time. In that vein I have serious doubts that you have ever re-regulated any double rifle. That, however, is only my opinion and I can't prove it, but your own words on regulation of double rifles indicate that as fact. .............................................................Now cuss all you want! BYE! ....Mac >>>===(x)===> MacD37, ...and DUGABOY1 DRSS Charter member "If I die today, I've had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"~ME 1982 Hands of Old Elmer Keith | |||
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