quote:

Sabaitti from Cabellas?

quote:

Originally posted by Biebs:

quote:

Sabaitti from Cabellas?

Oh no...here we go again.

....Mac >>>===(x)===> MacD37, ...and DUGABOY1
DRSS Charter member
"If I die today, I've had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"~ME 1982

Hands of Old Elmer Keith

quote:

Originally posted by JDA-CO:
I've gone to see and hold that little sabatti 3 times. In fact, they have five or six sabatti's at that store and none of them have the ground muzzles. I would not hesitate to own one.

....Mac >>>===(x)===> MacD37, ...and DUGABOY1
DRSS Charter member
"If I die today, I've had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"~ME 1982

Hands of Old Elmer Keith

quote:

Originally posted by D R Hunter:
Wonderful for you to have it shoot just right!!!!!
You're a good guy and I'm sure all of us are smiling
on your behalf.

....Mac >>>===(x)===> MacD37, ...and DUGABOY1
DRSS Charter member
"If I die today, I've had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"~ME 1982

Hands of Old Elmer Keith

quote:

But, how could this be?

quote:

Originally posted by mdstewart:

I for one have never claimed the Sabbatti's were junk. But the ground muzzles were unexcusable, regardless of the price. I've always thought they are a great buy if you can get one that shoots well and doesn't have ground muzzles. Congrats on owning 4 that apparently don't have those issues.

I would love to own one in .450/400 if I knew it was well regulated and no ground muzzles.

quote:

Originally posted by doubleriflejack:
But, how could this be? Everyone knows that Sabatti didn't regulate them properly, just look at the online regulation video! And, their shooting, shown on same video, shows that their jig doesn't allow the rifle to recoil properly for real regulation, so it couldn't have been done correctly. Everyone knows that Sabatti doesn't know how to properly regulate double rifles. Also, everyone knows that nobody can make a decent double rifle for less than around $10,000. Never mind that I happen to have four of their doubles, none with the muzzle rifling filed or ground away, and all regulated well, shooting even better than this one, and I know a good number of other ones owned by other people that are also regulated well, so, again, how can this be? Sabatti has to be the luckiest maker on planet earth, having even some well regulated; not knowing what they are doing! Everyone knows, too, that some of them have ribs put on with epoxy. And the ribs fall off. Never mind that some guys now have shot their Sabatti doubles around 1000 times, and ribs are still --just fine; thank you. Never mind too that I personally have re-regulated two of them, finding the Sabatti factory ribs put on in normal common manner, using soft solder, same as is found on classic old doubles from the British, the German, and others, that I have re-re-regulated through the years no epoxy seen. But, didn't JJ find that Sabatti doubles don't have a mid point regulation wedge? Yes he did; it is true, they don't have a mid point regulation wedge. However, numerous other old classic double rifles, especially German ones, don't have a mid point wedge either. Fact is, I am presently re-regulating a Clamshell German 9.3 x 74R, made in 1900, because it was originally regulated for a lighter weight bullet than what I now want it to be regulated for, and IT HAS NO MID POINT REGULATION WEDGE EITHER, SAME AS SABATTI. One final time, how can this be that Sahatti isn't the junk portrayed by so many?

quote:

Originally posted by doubleriflejack:
But, how could this be? Everyone knows that Sabatti didn't regulate them properly, just look at the online regulation video! And, their shooting, shown on same video, shows that their jig doesn't allow the rifle to recoil properly for real regulation, so it couldn't have been done correctly. Everyone knows that Sabatti doesn't know how to properly regulate double rifles. Also, everyone knows that nobody can make a decent double rifle for less than around $10,000. Never mind that I happen to have four of their doubles, none with the muzzle rifling filed or ground away, and all regulated well, shooting even better than this one, and I know a good number of other ones owned by other people that are also regulated well, so, again, how can this be? Sabatti has to be the luckiest maker on planet earth, having even some well regulated; not knowing what they are doing! Everyone knows, too, that some of them have ribs put on with epoxy. And the ribs fall off. Never mind that some guys now have shot their Sabatti doubles around 1000 times, and ribs are still --just fine; thank you. Never mind too that I personally have re-regulated two of them, finding the Sabatti factory ribs put on in normal common manner, using soft solder, same as is found on classic old doubles from the British, the German, and others, that I have re-re-regulated through the years no epoxy seen. But, didn't JJ find that Sabatti doubles don't have a mid point regulation wedge? Yes he did; it is true, they don't have a mid point regulation wedge. However, numerous other old classic double rifles, especially German ones, don't have a mid point wedge either. Fact is, I am presently re-regulating a Clamshell German 9.3 x 74R, made in 1900, because it was originally regulated for a lighter weight bullet than what I now want it to be regulated for, and IT HAS NO MID POINT REGULATION WEDGE EITHER, SAME AS SABATTI. One final time, how can this be that Sahatti isn't the junk portrayed by so many?

....Mac >>>===(x)===> MacD37, ...and DUGABOY1
DRSS Charter member
"If I die today, I've had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"~ME 1982

Hands of Old Elmer Keith

quote:

Originally posted by 505G:
Agree, talk about shooting yourself in the foot !

So he has had 50% of his firearms needing re regulating.

Seems to be about the same amount that others found that haven't shot.

....Mac >>>===(x)===> MacD37, ...and DUGABOY1
DRSS Charter member
"If I die today, I've had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"~ME 1982

Hands of Old Elmer Keith

quote:

Originally posted by doubleriflejack:
But, how could this be? Everyone knows that Sabatti didn't regulate them properly, just look at the online regulation video! And, their shooting, shown on same video, shows that their jig doesn't allow the rifle to recoil properly for real regulation, so it couldn't have been done correctly. Everyone knows that Sabatti doesn't know how to properly regulate double rifles.

quote:

by Doublewriflejack
Also, everyone knows that nobody can make a decent double rifle for less than around $10,000. Never mind that I happen to have four of their doubles, none with the muzzle rifling filed or ground away, and all regulated well, shooting even better than this one, and I know a good number of other ones owned by other people that are also regulated well, so, again, how can this be?

quote:

by Doubleriflejack
Sabatti has to be the luckiest maker on planet earth, having even some well regulated; not knowing what they are doing! Everyone knows, too, that some of them have ribs put on with epoxy. And the ribs fall off. Never mind that some guys now have shot their Sabatti doubles around 1000 times, and ribs are still --just fine; thank you. Never mind too that I personally have re-regulated two of them, finding the Sabatti factory ribs put on in normal common manner, using soft solder, same as is found on classic old doubles from the British, the German, and others, that I have re-re-regulated through the years no epoxy seen.

quote:

by Doubleriflejack
But, didn't JJ find that Sabatti doubles don't have a mid point regulation wedge? Yes he did; it is true, they don't have a mid point regulation wedge. However, numerous other old classic double rifles, especially German ones, don't have a mid point wedge either. Fact is, I am presently re-regulating a Clamshell German 9.3 x 74R, made in 1900, because it was originally regulated for a lighter weight bullet than what I now want it to be regulated for, and IT HAS NO MID POINT REGULATION WEDGE EITHER, SAME AS SABATTI. One final time, how can this be that Sahatti isn't the junk portrayed by so many?

....Mac >>>===(x)===> MacD37, ...and DUGABOY1
DRSS Charter member
"If I die today, I've had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"~ME 1982

Hands of Old Elmer Keith

quote:

Originally posted by JudgeG:
Okay, folks:

Here's the deal... I have read just about every Sabatti thread here. I've shot two, both in DG calibers and with the funky engraving and animal on the opening lever. Both shot well, one with ground muzzles and the other without. I, however, couldn't warm to the laser engraving, etc. The balance just didn't seem right and until you bought your rifle, you didn't quite know what you had.... no one like Butch Searcy ready and willing to fix any problem. Regardless of the caliber, I'd not have an OptiWood version.

So... when Cabela's started lowering prices, I wasn't much interested in the DG variety. We have tons of hogs down here, and I kind of thought a double 9.3x74 or .45/70 might be nice, but why take a chance at a bunch over $3K for the "lesser" calibers.

Then, with a wild hair, I called the Lacy, WA Cabela's and asked about a .45/70 they had. Dang guy I talked to offered to call corporate and get the bottom line for the price. I had a coupon for $100 off and a free shipping ticket too. My competitive nature took over and I negotiated a price that's almost $2000.00 less than what some guys paid.

Reasoning: I had a written promise, albeit an email, of being able to send it back if it had ground bores or other problems.... and that's to Cabela's , and not the importer. Shipping was free, too, both ways. No sales tax, whoopee!

I bought the darn thing just to see if I was an idiot, I guess.

Well, I shot it today.

At least, so far, I guess I'm pretty smart.

The rifle comes to shoulder perfectly, even with the 15" l.o.p. The triggers are a bit more than I'd choose, but quite crisp. At 7#, it is a joy to carry.... And the below target shows great consistency and more than "usable" regulation with Hornady 325 grain LeveReveloution ammo.

An explanation of the target:

With a Sharpie, I made a circle upon which (at 50 yards) the front sight subtends the white portion of the ring. The first six shots were made with the front bead covering the white in the center. The top of the bead was aligned with the top of the rear sight, even thought the rear sight has two fiber optic green beads imbedded about 1/2 way down the sight. I shot this way because I wss more interested in the regulation than sight alignment.

I shot off shooting sticks with my hand under the forearm with the target at 50 yards and my right forearm resting on an extended portion of the shooting stick contraption I've made for shooting consistently.

Shots R1 and L1 were about 4" high and spread about 2" with the left barrel 1/2" higher than the right. R2 and L2 about touched the first set and R3 was called a bit low with L3 pretty darn close to the two prior from that barrel.

So.... I did my hunting hold for R4 and L4... all fiber optics level in the sight picture which makes the front bead lower than the top of the rear sight. When hunting with iron sights, I like to bullet to touch the top of the bead, so to speak.... and they just about did, albeit 2" apart.

With an expended .45/70 case as a measure, the "hunting hold" shots are, as I said, 2" apart (same as the first 6, too) and holding as I will hunting, right on the mark! I didn't win the lottery today, but, with all the problems others have had, I kind of felt I won something!

So.... You win sometimes, and you lose sometimes. I guess, so far, I'm one of the fortunate few.... but time will tell, I reckon. Keep your fingers crossed for me, please.

Not a bad weekend, 'cause for about $2k I got a pretty good hog and bear double. Can't wait to put on the included scope mount and a Leupold 1.5-5x and see what happens.

quote:

Originally posted by MacD37:
Well it is tomorrow, and here is the response to your 350 word paragraph!

quote:

Originally posted by doubleriflejack:
But, how could this be? Everyone knows that Sabatti didn't regulate them properly, just look at the online regulation video! And, their shooting, shown on same video, shows that their jig doesn't allow the rifle to recoil properly for real regulation, so it couldn't have been done correctly. Everyone knows that Sabatti doesn't know how to properly regulate double rifles.

In the first paragraph it evident you simply do not know what a JIG is! The nearest thing in that film to being a JIG was the adjustment fixture used to tighten down the muzzles on the different regulating wedges for soldering in! What you are calling a JIG is a mechanical shooting rest, to moderate the recoil for the shooter, not a JIG! In most shotgun makers shops a JIG is a fixture that will hold four or five barrel sets at a time with each space for a barrel set adjusted on the one barrel set that is physically regulated in that abortion of a rest the regulator was using in that film. The only thing wrong with that shooting rest is that it doesn’t allow the rifle to recoil in the normal manner. If the side ear were made in a wide “V” rather than vertical tight up against the barrels it would allow the rifle to recoil away from the other barrel while rising. Still the rest of those rifles in that caliber would be simply fitted into a gang JIG and soldered all the exact same way.

A JIG is a large gang fixture that is adjusted on a barrel set that was regulated in that shooting rest, so that all additional doubles in that caliber can be placed in the pre-adjusted JIG and soldered together without having to shoot the barrels at all. The concept looks like a sure thing! The only problem is It doesn’t work on double rifles.

That works fine for shotguns but simply doesn’t work for a double rifle. With this procedure you could build ten double rifle barrel sets in that JIG and every one of them will shoot differently. This is especially true if the original barrel set was regulated in the shooting rest they used. That is because the rest he used to regulate, once removed from that rest will not shoot the way it did in the rest, because it will now be allowed to recoil in a normal manner! Allowed to recoil UP and AWAY from the other barrel, So the barrels were improperly regulated in the first place, but even if it was, the JIG system will not work, simply because the barrels are all aligned the same only a small percentage will shoot acceptably. So it is evident from your very well written post that not everyone knows of what they speak.

quote:

by Doublewriflejack
Also, everyone knows that nobody can make a decent double rifle for less than around $10,000. Never mind that I happen to have four of their doubles, none with the muzzle rifling filed or ground away, and all regulated well, shooting even better than this one, and I know a good number of other ones owned by other people that are also regulated well, so, again, how can this be?

If done properly it can be done today in the $10K range if the DIME STORE BLING is left off and the cost it spent on regulation and proper fitting! SO here again, not everyone knows how to build a reliable well regulated double rifle for that amount, or that putting lipstick on a pig doesn’t make it anything but a painted pig.

The four SABs you say you have with no grinding are that way because,if they exist, they are some of the ones that came out of that gang JIG that happened to shoot well; It is the ones that came out of that gang JIG that didn’t shoot well, that were ground inside the muzzles instead of re-regulating them properly, some dim-wit grabbed the grinder. If the barrels had all been individually regulated properly in the first place there would have been no need to re-regulate them at all.

quote:

by Doubleriflejack
Sabatti has to be the luckiest maker on planet earth, having even some well regulated; not knowing what they are doing! Everyone knows, too, that some of them have ribs put on with epoxy. And the ribs fall off. Never mind that some guys now have shot their Sabatti doubles around 1000 times, and ribs are still --just fine; thank you. Never mind too that I personally have re-regulated two of them, finding the Sabatti factory ribs put on in normal common manner, using soft solder, same as is found on classic old doubles from the British, the German, and others, that I have re-re-regulated through the years no epoxy seen.

On the sentence in bold above, we absolutely agree!

I have zero idea where the being put on with epoxy came from! The only double rifles I am aware of that were regulated and the ribs all installed with a space age glue used to hold the tiles on the space shuttles as a heat shield for re-entry was the ROGUE RIVER doubles that were later to became the Cal Rigby, but the ones with the Rigby name were regulated in the normal manner with solder. The Rogue River rifles were regulated about like a cheap shotgun, holding both barrels in a 30 inch pattern! Another JIG regulation job that was dumped very quickly.

quote:

by Doubleriflejack
But, didn't JJ find that Sabatti doubles don't have a mid point regulation wedge? Yes he did; it is true, they don't have a mid point regulation wedge. However, numerous other old classic double rifles, especially German ones, don't have a mid point wedge either. Fact is, I am presently re-regulating a Clamshell German 9.3 x 74R, made in 1900, because it was originally regulated for a lighter weight bullet than what I now want it to be regulated for, and IT HAS NO MID POINT REGULATION WEDGE EITHER, SAME AS SABATTI. One final time, how can this be that Sahatti isn't the junk portrayed by so many?

DRJ, on this we can agree! Most vintage doubles are not fitted with a mid point wedge, the silver soldering of the front sling swivel eye base usually has extended saddles that are silver soldered to both barrels for strength and stabilization of the mid point of the barrels. The mid point wedge is not a regulating wedge but a barrel stabilizer. Regulation is only done by moving the muzzle wedge at the end of the barrels. Once the barrels are soldered by educated guess, ribs installed the movements of the wedges by trial and error at the muzzles are microscopic in measurement, and is done at the muzzle only!

DRJ the JIG system has been tried over and over throughout history, and all REAL double rifle makers found long ago that it simply doesn’t work consistently with double rifles. Shotguns are a zebra of a different stripe, however, but every time a shotgun manufacturer decides he will start building double rifles it is tried again! They find out pretty quickly that it doesn’t work.

Now what everyone SHOULD KNOW is there are no short cuts to regulating a double rifle, or fitting barrels to action! Both cost money, and time. It is quite evident that some here don’t understand that!


The above is my response. and it is up to the reader to believe it or not! It cost nothing but time to read it!

This my last word on this tread, and I apologize to Judge G for DRJ, and myself for high-jacking of his post, and am happy that his rifle shoots properly, and is worth keeping!

....................................................................................BYE

quote:

I guess my question is, if Sab regulates them all properly, why did you have to reregulate two of them?

quote:

Originally posted by doubleriflejack:
Mac, I second that. Blah, blah, blah, you sure can dish out your crap. You couldn't resist attacking me, could you? What a pompous Texan ass. Have a nice day, pops.

....Mac >>>===(x)===> MacD37, ...and DUGABOY1
DRSS Charter member
"If I die today, I've had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"~ME 1982

Hands of Old Elmer Keith