Well it looks like I may have made a deal on an elephant hunt this June. My Searcy 375 flanged, 450-400 is back at Searcy's having a light trigger and ejector problem resolved. If it does not show up back here in the next week or so I am going to be in trouble.

So, I am thinking about buying another double to shoot and be ready for the June hunt. Any suggestions? There is a 470 Heym in the classifieds. 470 is close to my limit for recoil.

So buy another double or wait and hope for the Searcy even though the 450-400 is a bit light for elephant?

Suggestions appreciated.

j

If you can afford a new double and an elephant hunt, why not!?! If your .450/400 does make it back and you feel more comfortable with it, take it! If you like the .470 and buy it, take it! If you buy the .470, don't feel comfortable and the .450/400 doesn't make it back in time, take the .375! I wish I had your problems! haha...

Josh

I do not consider a 450/400 light for elephant.

If you are on a time constraint, the 470 Heym is a good choice.

Heym doubles are great rifles.

However I would call Butch and advise him of your situation.

I might better make my above statement more clear.

A Heym Double is a great choice, no matter how much time you have.

The reason why I say it is a good choice if you are on a time constraint, is it will most likely work great the day you recieve it.

I think anything short of a 450NE is light for elephant hunting. But the 450/400 will certainly do the job.

Call Butch and tell him, I'd bet he'll expidite.

JPK

Guys, I have called Searcy and talked to the lady who answered the phone. I told her about the situation (Butch was on a machine) and begged her to ask Butch to hurry. If I don't have something in hand next week, I am in big trouble.

I need to be shooting everyday right now to prepare for an elephant hunt. As it is I am shooting a single shot rifle plinking at rocks. Not much practice for the real deal.

The 470 in the classifieds is about 160 miles from me. I'll bet if I made a deal with the owner, we could meet halfway.

I am going to call Searcy's tomorrow and check on delivery. If it doesn't look like it will be back in days, I am going to buy a back-up plan double rifle.

Time is too short.

I guess I could make a day trip to Champlins next week.

j

Justin, the Searcy is a two barrel set one in 450-400 and the other in 375 flanged. It is just one rifle.

j

I guess the real issue for me would be even if your 450/400 would get back in time is trusting the rifle without putting 30-50 rounds through the tubes and re-establishing confidence in the weapon, especially hunting elephant.

The advantage of buying the 470 that is 160 miles away would be that you could talk to the owner about loading data for it.

If you refering to Jim Manions rifle in the classifieds, another advantage would be the resale value of it. In the end it would not likely cost anything if you sell it after the hunt.

Dirk, I was thinking 300 to 500 before I would trust one. I can only stand maybe 15 to 30 a day. So you see my problem.

Frankly, the entire hunt is hanging in the balance. The PH knows the situation and understands that I may have to back down to a full bag plains game hunt.

Something has to happen early next week.

j

Allen, yes I was talking about Jim Manion's in the classifieds. It may not be available anymore. There are several for sale around for $13k-$18k depending on the exact rifle.

Champlins is not far away either.

j

quote:

Originally posted by Josh A.:

Frankly, the entire hunt is hanging in the balance. The PH knows the situation and understands that I may have to back down to a full bag plains game hunt.

j

Do you not have a spare big bolt rifle ?
I would even use a Weatherby Magnum before I passed on a booked Ele hunt.

Well, maybe not a Weatherby....

Buying a "new" rifle right before an elephant hunt with little time to sort out any difficulties that may arise is much worse than sorting out your own rifle with the same "little time". Frankly, in either case, you will not have "utmost" confidence in the weapon. Like others have said, I would call Butch and very politely explain why the rush is necessary. I would also pay him for this rushed work or, if he insists its under warranty, send him a nice piece of hunting gear as a "thank you".

quote:

Originally posted by ozhunter:

quote:

Originally posted by Josh A.:

Frankly, the entire hunt is hanging in the balance. The PH knows the situation and understands that I may have to back down to a full bag plains game hunt.

j

Do you not have a spare big bolt rifle ?
I would even use a Weatherby Magnum before I passed on a booked Ele hunt.

Me too! Even a 375H&H bolt rifle will do in a pinch for an elephant hunt.

Maybe the PH has a decent loaner?

If you're a lefty, maybe we could work out a loaner proven 375H&H.

BTW, not to say "I told you so," but this is one reason I believe in two rifles and not a different cartridge two barrel set. Either the 450/400 or the 375FL would do for an elephant if required.

JPK

I would stay on hold until Butch was off the machine. I cannot beleive that he would screw you by not getting back to you in time. Schedules and deliveries on new guns are one thing, but repairing a lemon that went out the door is a whole other matter. We all have had bad ones get by us, but it is the part of the Gunmaker GAP that eveeyrhting gets dropped in order to repair something that was our fault.

I think if you talk to Butch in person he will help you. I do not know the man but cannot imagine him not doing so.

Josh, check your email.

Rusty, I got your message and appreciate the offer very much. I do have several bolt rifles that will work. The upshot is that I wanted to hunt elephant with a double rifle. It just wouldn't be the same without one.

Hopefully Butch will get mine back to me soon. I let them know the situation last Monday and I was hoping he would fix it that same day and send it on Tuesday. I will call him again today. Who knows, it may show up today.

If the Searcy is not back very soon, I am going to see about another double.

Champlins is just up the road.

Josh

My bet is that Butch will not leave you hanging! But I think you need to get another double anyway....cant have too many! Jim's Heym is a nice rifle.

Josh:

I don't know how significant the problem is but another option that you have if Mr. Searcy can't get to it is to simply have him send it back to you and use it as is and address the issues on your return. I don't know if that would be an alternative but it would be a lot less expensive than buying a whole new double.

Dave

Buy the .470, start practicing, you can always sell a Heym (actually probably easier than the Searcy) if your set does manage to show up.

I like Butch and his guns, but don't wait on him in this case.

Buy my .500 and start practicing.....

If it's a hunt buster, we have a safe queen/loaner .458 Browning around here somewhere...

Elephant + Double = .500 Nitro Express

quote:

I need to be shooting everyday right now to prepare for an elephant hunt.

More important than shooting every day is knowing where to shoot. And you sure don't need a double to kill an elephant. A handy 458 WM bolt will do.

quote:

Originally posted by Will:

quote:

I need to be shooting everyday right now to prepare for an elephant hunt.

More important than shooting every day is knowing where to shoot.

Well, if you want to hunt elephant, Africa is probably where you need to go to shoot. Geez, Will!!!

quote:

Originally posted by Jim Manion:
Well, if you want to hunt elephant, Africa is probably where you need to go to shoot. Geez, Will!!!

Don't you just shoot them anywhere in the eye......in Africa?

I talked to someone at Butch's a little while ago and apparently my rifle is going to be shipped Monday. I was sure hoping for it to get back sooner, but at least it will be here mid-week.

Even if I drive over and get a double in hand on Saturday that only gets me a few extra days of practice.

So I guess I will wait on the Searcy and hope that no more problems develop before the hunt.

Josh

Josh,
Are you left-handed?

Dirk, I am right handed.

j

We have just had too many stories about certain rifles on this site.

.450/.400 is a bit light for elephant. Buy another double in double quick time chambered in .500 Nitro Express or .500/.416 Nitro Express. Don't wait!!!!!!

Well, I went ahead and bought Jim Manion's Heym 470. I have shot it some and I am going to have to work on my ability to handle recoil.

My Searcy is going to be back here tomorrow. Now it just comes down to which rifle I can shoot the most accurately. Obviously the 450-400 will offer less recoil, but you never know. I am also going to sight in the 375 flanged set of Searcy barrels with a low power scope so that I can back up my wife on plains game.

It should be an interesting few weeks getting ready for Africa and it should be a great hunt. Karl Stumpfe, Ndumo Safaris is aware of the situation and is ready to accomodate us.

Any interesting 470 Nitro loads you guys want to pass on?

Should be cool.

josh

Josh,

For becoming as recoil tollerant as possible in the short time you have, I would recommend shooting only a handful or so of the 470's at a time, but do it as frquently as possible. Several times a day if you can, adding a couple each trip to shoot.

Remind yourself that the rifle will not hurt you, and concentrate hard on the target.

I'd bring both rifles, btw.

Good luck,

JPK

Josh,

Here's the drill: first fire four with your .375 flanged, offhand at 100. Then fire four with the 450/400 or the .470 at 50, also offhand. Continue to mix them up but do not fire more than 16 rounds of 40 caliber at any one sitting and be sure to end with the .375 so the body remembers the lighter recoil.

You are shooting offhand for obvious reasons and do not be dismayed at your initial poor shooting. You are shooting four so that you learn to reload IMMEDIATELY.

Regards, Tim

I appreciate the assistance guys. The good news is that we have tons of pear out here to shoot. Some of it is even getting flowers on it. By far my favorite target. Immediate feedback on exact bullet placement.

I will take both rifles to Namibia regardless of which I hunt elephant with.

I do need a load with 500gr bullets and 4831 if someone has one. Can I go down from 100grs or so safely?

Karl, shoots a 450 Rigby bolt and is very good with it. I am betting that he keeps me and my wife from getting stomped into butter. If worse comes to worse, my wife, Goldielocks, can put the elephant down with her .243. She'll be our safety net.

thanks,
josh

what a great set of doubles you have. Keep shooting like you are doing and you will be ready for jumbo. I look forward to hearing about your successful hunt.

Josh,

You will want all of the velocity you can get from either rifle while maintaining the rifle's shooting to regulation.

You will hardly notice the recoil of the 470 when you shoot an elephant or buff. Your focus on the game will be intent enough that the rifle's recoil will be just sufficient to let you know it fired. Also, the noise from your rifle will be diminished so that it is audible and registers, but not much more.

This is why it is important to not shoot too much at one time here that you develop a flinch. Most practice shooting can be done with lesser cartridges, so long as the sights are the same or very similar. But you'll still need to shoot enough to become accustomed to either of the doubles, especially rapid reloading, as pointed out by Tim Carney.

JPK

Good advise coming in to JOSH here from EXPERIENCED elephant hunters!

Soak it all up JOSH and have a super trip. I and many others are rooting
for you from the "cheap seats".

Below is what MY elephant will see some day:
http://forums.accuratereloadin...60101804/m/856108469

Well guys I have a preliminary report on the tale of three (really 2 1/2)double rifles.

I have been shooting the Heym carefully with a good PAST pad and factory ammunition. At 30 yeards I am getting some group scatter that is more than is acceptable. Strung down and left. The Searcy 450-400 is strung a bit horizontally. Not bad but worse than I want. The Searcy with the 375 flanged barrels are stacking bullets on top of each other at 50 yards. The others I have shot at 30 yards.

Now obviously I am having better results from the lowest recoiling rifle I own. The 375 flanged is loaded with 300gr bullets and 80grs. of H4831.

The 450-400 is being fired with factory Hornady soft points. The 470 Nitro is being fired with factory Federal soft points. With a little luck I should be reloading the 450-400 and the 470 nitro this weekend

Any input is appreciated. We leave to hunt on June 12.

Thanks so much for the help,
josh

Josh - you'll have to be more specific. I don't know that I know what you mean by "group scatter."

I think I understand "stringing." That's something typically seen with bolt guns, but not with doubles.

You shooting from a bench, sticks, or standing?

A loose rib will cause barrels and groups to move around, but I don't think that's a problem with these rifles.

Josh,

This may be preaching to the choir, but:

To shoot to see how the rifle is shooting, you really need a standing (prefered because it does not exacerbate felt recoil) or a sitting bench (shoot as erect as possible to keep felt recoil to a minimum.)

You cannot rest the rifle on bags, but you can use bags under the forearm on which to rest your left hand. But you must be holding the barrels, similar to how you would shoot standing without any rest.

You can use bags under the butt, but well forward of the toe so that they do not become a hinge point or folcrum of recoil motion.

Shoot a round target with a 6:00 hold. Trying to shoot to center of target is difficult because it is hard to center the bead in a round or oval target. With a six oclock hold, it is easy to "stack" the target on top of the bead and ensure a repeatable hold.

With a rounded bead, you will have trouble maintaining a consistant sight picture, because sunlight will highlight one side of the bead or another. And believe it or not, it is not easy to tell you aren't seeing the whole bead. The best bead you can have is one filed flat with a fine file at about a 30* angle, with the low point of the bead the bottom of the point of the 30* (the filed off portion) and 60* angle (the remaining portion) and nearest the breech, the filed bead's new flat facet pointing up and towards the muzzles, 30* of perpendicular to the bores. Once filed, buff to a sheen with a polishing cloth.

A filed bead will not be highlighted by sunlight on one side or another, and will "glow", even in shade and dappled sunlight when the sun is overhead or anywhere behind or to the side. When the sun is in front, you won't have any improvement over a rounded bead, but no disadvantage over the rounded bead either. BTW, I have sworn off frontal brain shots on backlit elephants (or in the very poor light of dawn and dusk or the rare very dark, heavily overcast days.) Just too hard to see the detail required for a successful frontal brain shot.

Recall that the optimal two shot group from a double rifle will look like a figure eight laying on its side, with right barrel printing on the right, the left on the left and the width between the bullet holes' centers equal to the distance between the bores' centers at the muzzle.

Hope this helps,

JPK