Chris, I appreciate the reply. The four shot group is strung from low left to right high for about six inches. The right barrel is shooting pretty well, about two inches low and two inches right. Very nice. The left barrel is dropping low and left.

I am shooting off a sandbagged front rest and a good hold on the rear. Now bear in mind that I am just getting started shooting it, but these are the results so far.

Chris while I have you attention, what is the final decision about using Barnes banded solids in the Heym. Yes or no? Any problem with GS custom solids?

Hopefully I will have some better shooting information for you in the next few days.

What loads do you have for H4831 and 500gr solids in the 500gr solids in the 470 nitro?

Any help appreciated.

josh

Chris, I forgot to mention to you that I just bought a gunshop. It is a 27 year old business in Abilene, TX. The owner died and it looked like they might have to liquidate and close. I made the owners an offer and they accepted. We are just now getting restocked, but eventually we want to carry some high end fine arms. How does one get associated with Heym? I don't know anything about that end of the gun business but my manager has been with the store since it was opened 27 years ago. He does.


Thanks,
josh

quote:

I am shooting off a sandbagged front rest and a good hold on the rear. Now bear in mind that I am just getting started shooting it, but these are the results so far.

Josh,

Unless you are holding the barrels and merely resting the back of your left hand on the bags, here is a likely source for any stringing.

Because the regulation of a double is dependant on the rifle recoiling as if shot standing, you must replicate this as much as possible. Resting the forearm or barrels on bags does not do this, only actually holding the barrels will do this in a double rifle.

JPK

Josh - You know how to make a million dollars in the gun business don't you?

You simply start with two million.

Kidding aside, congratulations on your new purchase(s).

John has some very good points on form. Doubles simply don't behave like bolt guns, and they require a different style of shooting. I'm also familiar with the rifle you bought from Jim, and I know it shoots.

I can walk you through the "do's and dont's" faster verbally. We can also discuss loads and development.

Give me a call tomorrow and we can discuss shooting, form, loads, etc... 214.606.2566.

I'm in the office after 10:00.

Regarding Barnes or other homogeneous solids, we don't have a policy against using them. That's not to say that extensive testing has been done, just that we've never had a problem with them.

I can give you my personal views on them tomorrow.

Josh

Any info you get from New Guy will be spot on.

I recommend you shoot your doubles standing at 25 and 50 yards, kneeling at 50 and 100 yards, and sitting at 100 yards.

Forget about the bench.

I have hunted 86 days in Zimbabwe, I have not found any benches yet.

Doubles are regulated to be shot while hunting, not off of a bench.

Jim's 470 is a good shooter, I have shot it.

Find out what load he shot.

I go through your town once in a while, PM me with the address and phone number of your gun store and I will call ahead and we can meet for a cup or a bite.

Personally I would stick with Woodleigh Softs and Solids in your doubles.

I would use Nosler Partitions in the 375 however.

Tony,

He's trying to:

1. See how well his rifles will shoot with the ammo he has.

2. Going to be reloading, so, except for adopting Jim's load for the 470, which you vouch for, and will need to find loads that for each rifle/barrel set that will shoot to regulation.

Can't do either without a bench, but concur regarding practice shooting.

JPK

I do not test my hard kicking hunting guns off of a bench.

I test them how I shoot them.

I test and zero my long range hunting guns, prone off of my hunting pack, because that is the way I will shoot them in the field.

I test and zero my competition guns in the position[s] I use them in competition.

Shooting for small groups is not near as important to me as shooting for the proper hunting zero.

Josh,
I think the gun shop you bought in Abilene was owned by the cousin of my best friend David Guitar, who lives in Brownwood. He's a DVM.

Small world!

quote:

Originally posted by N E 450 No2:
I do not test my hard kicking hunting guns off of a bench.

I test them how I shoot them.

I test and zero my long range hunting guns, prone off of my hunting pack, because that is the way I will shoot them in the field.

I test and zero my competition guns in the position[s] I use them in competition.

Shooting for small groups is not near as important to me as shooting for the proper hunting zero.

So when you develop loads for your doubles you you are satisfied with a load, in so far as its shooting to regulation of the rifle, with the results you achieve at 50 and 100yds, shooting offhand?

JPK

450, I might have given you a false sense that I was using a benchrest. I am not. I was using sandbags under my left arm which held the rifle forearm. The sandbags are resting on the corner of the bed of my truck. When I am shooting offhand, it is harder for me to get a good zero. I generally know where the shot broke, so I am pretty sure if the bullet hit to call.

Rusty you are correct, the Shootin Shop did belong to John Guitar. It is going to take us a little time to build the inventory back up, but I think we will work out fine. The manager is staying and he has been there since day one, 27 years ago.

I am headed out again this evening to shoot a few, I'll report how it goes.

j

Josh,
I echo what NE 450 #2 says about shooting from field positions. Not only is it much easier to handle the recoil, but I have found that with a double it will produce the best accuracy. I expect if you allow your body to move a bit with the guns recoil you will find the groups come back in line with what you are expecting. I also have noticed that many folks seem to have accuracy with the second shot when alternating barrels. I attribute this to the fact that seconds before your body was dealt a swift blow in recoil…only natural to tense up on the second pull of the trigger and pull the shot a little. When I do this I tend to shoot low as you describe.

Congrats on the gun shop BTW

Hey guys I got in a few rounds from them all tonight. 25 yards offhand for all. The Heym 470 nitro was fired with Barnes banded solids and 100grs of H4831. All six of these rounds were about six inches low and segregated into left and right groups about 5 inches apart. Each left and right group is a nice tight group.

Next was 4 rounds of 400gr Barnes banded solids and 76grs of H4831 and the 450-400 barrels on my Searcy. These fell inside the same groups as the Heym 470. Low and left and right barrels segregated. I mean could have interchanged the 450-400 groups and the 470s.

Last was 4 rounds out of the Searcy 375 flanged barrels. 300gr Sierras and some forgotten load of H4831. All four rounds dead centered into about three inches at the 25 yard target. Not a bad group for offhand.

As of now I am going to hunt with the 375 flanged Searcy unless I am can get one of the others shooting better.

Any loads recommended are welcome for either the 470 nitro or the 450-400.

thanks,
j

Try Woodleigh FMJ's with approx 103grns of AR2209/H-4350.

Josh,
I dont know if these loads would work for you but I use:

470
106 grains IMR 4831
Norma brass
Federal 215 Gold Match primers
Woodleigh 500 grain bullets


450/400
81 grains IMR 4831
Bell brass
Federal 215 Gold Match primers
400 grain Woodleighs

I shoot 4 rounds then let the rifle cool down completely before shooting 4 more rounds.

Josh,
I expect your loads are a little slow and that if you increase your velocity the impact will come together. You need to shoot over a chronograph and work up until you achieve the velocity the rifle was regulated for.

Roscoe, I suspected that the loads are at the low end. I am working up. The bad news is that my rifle range house is in disarray having the cabinets installed and my chrono is buried in the mess.

I'll ease up several of loads and see how they shape up.

The good thing is I am getting used to shooting these doubles.

josh

When working up loads for a double rifle I test;
Off hand at 25 yards, off hand and kneeling at 50 yards, kneeling and sitting at 100 yards.

Once I find what I think are the proper loads for the double, I shoot some more off sticks at 50 and 100, shoot using a tree for support at 50 and 100.

I do not care how my double shoots off of a bench as I have NEVER seen a bench in the field.

I have killed several animals over 200 yards with a double.

However I prefer to shoot elephants at 6 yards or less.

But by NO MEANS is the double rifle only a short range rifle.

I am very suprised by how you work up loads.

When seeking a new load for one of my doubles, I use a standing bench to insure that there is no shooter induced influence on the two shot (first starting off, when I expect low velocity induced spread) four shot (early stage of seeking a load, but when getting close) or six shot groups (last stage, when I think I'm either there or a fraction of a grain off one way or the other.)

By using a standing bench, with my Thys, I can actually get the North Forks to come very close to printing that theoretical perfect regulation pattern of a figure eight on its side, with the holes' centers seperated by the bores' center to center spread at the muzzle. Confirming the "perfect" load, changing yardage doesn't change the pattern, except as limited by my abitilty to see the target at greater range. Can't do that with Woodleighs, which aren't as accurate as the NF's.

I load adjacent to the range, and it takes but a couple of hours to find a new load with a new component, or, occasionaly, to confirm that the combo won't work.

Once the load has been found, no more shooting off a bench, just field positions.

So far as long range, I don't use the Thys for that if I have a scoped alternative, which has been my 375H&H bolt, but I have used the Thys without hesitation when the bolt wasn't available for a klipspringer at 80yds (tiny target.)

When my 375H&H A&S Farmars sidelock is finished its slow progressing conversion to lefty, I'll be using that in lieu of the bolt, at all game and at all distances that I would use the bolt.

JPK