There was a time when even guys who could not afford Africa were buying doubles. Has that nonsense stopped due to current economic conditions?

I was 28 when I learned that double rifles existed. [I am 49+ now]

Once introduced to them I became more and more enthralled. I

finally was able to afford one in Sept 2007. I hope the fad ends and

the serious admirerers/enthusiasts are able to get some "bargins".

quote:

Originally posted by Colonel_Klink:
There was a time when even guys who could not afford Africa were buying doubles. Has that nonsense stopped due to current economic conditions?

What nonsense? I love using my double for NA hunting.

quote:

Originally posted by BigFiveJack:
I hope the fad ends and
the serious admirerers/enthusiasts are able to get some "bargins".

I call that wishful thinking !!!

A finite number of old doubles exist, just like old cars.

I very much doubt that they will ever be bargains.

Have prices dropped much during this recession ?????

Hey Klink, do own any firearms at all? Or are you just a troll with bad postings.

Keith

quote:

Originally posted by 500N:

quote:

Originally posted by BigFiveJack:
I hope the fad ends and
the serious admirerers/enthusiasts are able to get some "bargins".

I call that wishful thinking !!!

A finite number of old doubles exist, just like old cars.

I very much doubt that they will ever be bargains.

Have prices dropped much during this recession ?????

I don't think you will see bargains on well cared for "OLD" double rifles regardless of where they were made, but there are a lot of double rifles that not old. If you see bargains it will be those who stocked up a little too many, and the economy cought them with dead stock. Then you will see those for sale from people who have lost high end jobs, and the wolf is digging at the door of that 15,000 sf house they can't make the morgage payments on!

Then there are the poor guys like me who bought the doubles over many years, and are now retired, with no debt, but little retirement income, but enough to kill the wolf, and his double rifles are secure in the vault! In an economy like today it is the high end rifles that will bring enough money to do some wolf killing, that you will see on the private sale market, but with few if any buyers.

I'll add one thing re "bargains" or waiting for a bargain.

Those who wait for a bargain always miss out
on the appreciation. When doubles were cheap(er)
they waited for the bargain and missed out on
the 100% appreciation of doubles.

And a "Bargain" is rarely a bargain, and if it
is a true "bargain", it is snapped up and then
that owner is unlikely to sell it for other than
it's market price.

Unless they are bloody stupid.

I think everyone has a limit on what they will pay for a gun. If you look carefully, you can find "bargains" on high quality used guns. I picked up a K-gun in .500/.416 at a really good price from a fellow AR member and I am really happy with it. I know that this is not everyone's cup of tea but there is a brand new Blaser S2 500 NE in the classifieds for $7500. If I was looking for a 500, I would have it in a second. In my mind, a 500, any new .500, for $7,500 is a great deal. I have seen, handled, and shot a Heym in that caliber. It was indeed a superb firearm. However, I just can't bring myself to shell out $15,000-$16,000 for a Heym if I can find a "bargain" on a Searcy, Merkel, Kreighoff, or Blaser for so much less even though I know that you will get less for the others on resale. The guns from Holland and Holland, Purdey, etc, they will always be out of reach for me.

quote:

Has that nonsense stopped due to current economic conditions?

Nonsense?

My wife insisted on going yard saling this morning, so we loaded into the SUV and hit the streets.

I saw a 1965 Ford Mustang in REALLY BAD condition sitting in someone drive way. It was a 1965 Mustang though.

I could have probably bought it "as is" for a few grand, spent some money restoring it and selling it for a profit.

Moral of the story - things are still out there. I'm sure there are double out there in people's safes just waiting to be found.

at this moment in time i can not afford a trip to Africa but i am still going to buy a affordable double and i belive i will be able to enjoy mine around home until i can save enough to get out to africa i know ill never own a holland & holland for some reason a few people with money belive that they are the only ones who should have the privelege of enjoying anything im 27 and am working towards a plains game trip after my purchase of a rifle i guess according to u a lowlife middleclass should not enjoy anything except working for the so called elite theres plenty of shooting to be had around my home & farm sorry if im not jet set

nomo,

Perhaps you are not well to do like some on here and neither am I, but at least use some periods in your written words. It is a whole lot easier to read and understand. Thanks.

I don't believe the desire to own a double has subsided, just the ability to make it happen from the financial end. I would hazard a guess that the falling prices we are currently experiencing will be as short lived as the shitty economy. That said, if you want one you better start saving your money so that when the tide turns you will be there to reap the discount before the prices head back upwards. I have noticed some of the retailers discounting the new and slightly used DR's by several thousand dollars already and expect that to continue for about another 8-9 months then stay flat for another year or so. Thats when you need to be ready to part with your dough. I will be ready to buy mine at that time. A Merkel in 450-400 Nitro.

quote:

Originally posted by nomo:
at this moment in time i can not afford a trip to Africa but i am still going to buy a affordable double and i belive i will be able to enjoy mine around home until i can save enough to get out to africa i know ill never own a holland & holland for some reason a few people with money belive that they are the only ones who should have the privelege of enjoying anything im 27 and am working towards a plains game trip after my purchase of a rifle i guess according to u a lowlife middleclass should not enjoy anything except working for the so called elite theres plenty of shooting to be had around my home & farm sorry if im not jet set

nomo

Welcome to AR.

I would recommend a 9,3x74R as your first double

Bought my first in 1971,.577 BPE hammer, had to build my own brass( or so I was told) (no internet back then).
And old gunsmith taught me to make the brass--then he told me I could buy them and where.(he said he wanted to see if I'd really do it, and laughed his arse off; Miss him still)

I do not think this is a craze, I think it is the rapid spread of info via the web.
At no time in history have there been as many sources of ammo, projectiles , etc for the "old" DR rifles.

That along with the rest of the world becoming more anti-gun, the DR's are finding there way to markets that appreciate them. Thank God we are in that market.

Look at the BP DR prices not just the nitro guns are escalating.
Works of art are just that--Works of Art.

Duggaboy

It's only when / because Amercia became sophisticated that they realized that better guns existed and went from clunkerphile shotguns and lever actions to English game guns and double Rifles !!!!

Hell no!!!!

500N,

there may be some truth to what you say, but wouldn't you like to walk out to your gun vault in the shop and grab a couple of handguns and ammunition and go shoot them? Without a government agent along... At least here we can own those pumps and semi-autos and anything else we can afford.

Rich
Buff Killer

quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:
500N,

there may be some truth to what you say, but wouldn't you like to walk out to your gun vault in the shop and grab a couple of handguns and ammunition and go shoot them? Without a government agent along... At least here we can own those pumps and semi-autos and anything else we can afford.

Rich
Buff Killer

LOL


Good comeback.

quote:

Originally posted by 500N:

quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:
500N,

there may be some truth to what you say, but wouldn't you like to walk out to your gun vault in the shop and grab a couple of handguns and ammunition and go shoot them? Without a government agent along... At least here we can own those pumps and semi-autos and anything else we can afford.

Rich
Buff Killer

LOL


Good comeback.

It was a funny come back,and true as of now, but I doubt it will last with Obama, and Dem congress in office!

I wish that my D.R. craziness would subside.

Here's my take:

1) Therre has been little if any cessation in sales velocity at of the top of the market (guns over 100K $). However the issue lies in the fact that a finite amount of the top end guns were ever made and getting them is very difficult.

2) The middle-lower market has suffered dramatically for a couple of reasons; 1) Bad econmy 2) A glut of product on the market as more and more makers have gotten into the game on a larger scale as more and more hunters "WERE" booking trips to Africa. That has subsided for now, thus a glut of low-mid range DRs on the market currently. A simple case of inventory excesses versus that of demand.

The outlook bodes for a slow and progressive increase over the next several years. As for the high end market, just today I was offered 4 H&H DRs froma private collection. Just for the record, there was no "discount" pricing on these pre-war gems. However, now ids the time to cut a deal on the mid-lower priced rifles out there. Time to buy in other words!!!

JW

quote:

Originally posted by Jeff Wemmer:
Here's my take:

1) Therre has been little if any cessation in sales velocity at of the top of the market (guns over 100K $). However the issue lies in the fact that a finite amount of the top end guns were ever made and getting them is very difficult.

JW

What is the difference between this rifle and one that cost over 100k?

http://www.champlinarms.com/De...StyleID=3&GunID=1386

Is it the engraving?

This seems to be a good buy (and interesting piece) that I am actually considering to buy for a collector piece that I will also shoot.

quote:

Originally posted by Mike70560:

quote:

Originally posted by Jeff Wemmer:
Here's my take:

1) Therre has been little if any cessation in sales velocity at of the top of the market (guns over 100K $). However the issue lies in the fact that a finite amount of the top end guns were ever made and getting them is very difficult.

JW

What is the difference between this rifle and one that cost over 100k?

No, I think it's on the early AB Action and it's the early, non re inforced action
which lowers the price of it compared to a similar gun made post 1912 (I think).

Some people like this engraving, some don't. I like it,
even if it isn't classic Holland engraving, it's still nice.

Very nice rifle and for sale by a very reputable deal as well.

BUT.....In the world of H&H it is not the most desireable configuration, has been re-worked a good bit.

for an H&H to really be a hot item it has to be a pre WWII rifle / recent very high-grade gun, and must have a reinforced frame and be acomplete set, cased, with all accessories. And be in near pristine condition.

Remember, we are talking about the"top" end of DR collecting. If that rifle were of 1920s vintage, were a .577, had a reinforced frame and had all of the bells and whistles it would sell for in excess of 175K! 125 in this caliber given the correct prequisites!

FYI: The frame type is very crucial to the gun's value.

JW

Thanks Jeff for a much better explanation than mine.

Thanks guys. I appreciate the info.

This is a description of an H&H that is on Schwandt Classic Arms site. It lists for 169.5K.

""Holland & Holland 577 NE. The Ultimate stopper. Regulated for 100 Cordite - 750 Grain Bullet.
To top off this already incredible find, it is in like new " original condition." Rifle retains 98% blue, 95% case color. Superbly well figured wood retains virtually all original finish. No signs of any refinishing on the whole piece. Bores are as new, mint condition with no sign of cordite usage whatsoever. This is a rifle that could have made a good deal of history, but instead lived a very sheltered life. H&H records indicate rifle was shipped in 1917. Perhaps the Great War for-stalled it from being put into service. "One of only three 577's know to have ever been built in the full 100 - 750 regulation." Must be seen to be appreciated.""

The action is an SLE.

Only one of three prewar 577's WOW.

BTW the "craze" is not over, it is just starting for me. One K-Gun this year and trying to decide what is next.

quote:

Originally posted by Colonel_Klink:
There was a time when even guys who could not afford Africa were buying doubles. Has that nonsense stopped due to current economic conditions?

hook line and sinker

this guy acts like a troll, and spouts off like he knows everyone's history and bank account

quote:

this guy acts like a troll, and spouts off like he knows everyone's history and bank account

I agree. Could this be Addork reincarnated? Anyway to check Jeff?