Chapuis English website

I have been reading up on the Chapuis doubles and I'm unsure if they are a good choice for me or not. I have read some posts that say these are the best handling double rifles. Other posts say they shoot out of regulation much faster then they should and the factory has been unresponsive to the reason why.

Reading the French website translated to English was not helpful and the English version is also a little vague.

Have I missed a good thread or website that describes the difference in the various grades of Chapuis rifles and describes them in more detail? Is the fact they don't seem to hold their value and appear to be a little hard to resell indicate they are a poor choice for new double buyer like myself?

Thanks!
Sid

I personally know four gentlemen (some of which are posters here on AR) who have Chapuis in 9.3 and have had A LOT of issues with them. I was considering purchasing one, but not now after the issues they have encountered.

I haven't heard of issues with the .470.

I know of several Chapuis among my hunting circle. Most (99,9% in 9,3x74R) if not all needed at least re-regulation to bring bbls. together. After that, they seem ok. Still, Chapuis costing about half the price of a good Belgian,German/Austrian double rifle, I expect them to remain popular.

I think my issues are my fault. I put different mounts and a heavier scope on it. I am going back to the original mounts and scope. Hopefully that will correct my regulation problems.

I have sold about 10 Chapuis rifles in 9.3x74R. I have had no complain from any client. The last one I sold was about 2 weeks ago and the client from Tennesse just raves about how well it shoots. These rifles are regulated with Norma ammunition and I do not know if changing loads causes a problem. I do not reload so I cannot comment on that. But...(joking) a Belgium comment about a french product should be taken with a grain of salt. The French make jokes about Belgiums like we used to have Polish jokes. I think there is quite a bit of anamosity between those people. Chapuis client references furnished if you wish.

I bought a Chapuis 9.3 last year. I ordered it from the factory and sent over a scope so the gun could be regulated at 100 meters with the Norma 286 gr Oryx.

When I received the gun it crossfired by 12 inches at 100 yds with multiple lots of 286 Oryx Norma ammo. I had JJ re-regulate the gun.

As 577 says, we know of several rifles that had the same problem.

My rifle is presently with JJ getting checked out,I had problems with it after firing Barnes Tsx bullets through it,I had no problems ever, prior to this happening,it is a delightful little rifle to carry in the field & normally very accurate!

i've had my 9.3 chapuis since june 2007... and other than having the triggers worked on, i've had no problems with regulation.... i shoot s&b factory 286 gr sp's...i had a redfield 2-7x20 scope on it, but recently changed to a 3-9x40...no change as far as i can tell....the gun will shoot better than i can hold... and i get 3" groups at 50.... i'm very pleased...

Hi Sid:

I have a 470 NE Chapius Safari Express and the upgraded wood and engraving are hard to beat IMHO compared to Merkel & Kreighoff. It also balanced the best for me, being slightly barrel heavy.

It also shoots sub 1.5 inch groups (4) shots 2L&2R at 50 yards with handloads.

I am very happy with mine.

REgards... PAHunter

Didnt Tony kill a Coyote at 600 yards +/- with a Chapuis 9.3?

quote:

Originally posted by Mississippian:
Didnt Tony kill a Coyote at 600 yards +/- with a Chapuis 9.3?

It wasn't quite that far, but was a hell of a shot, or in fact two shots, both hitting the coyote at a measured 278 yds! The first shot spun the coyote, with a forward gut shot, and the second barrel puth him down for the count! As far as I know, Tony has never had a problem with his, but there have been a rash of problems with them in the last year!

As Rusty says, and I agree that the scope and mounts he installed on his Cahpuis 9.3X74R double were simply too heavy, and it really played hell with his regulation!

Any scope mounted on a double rifle must be as light as is posible, yet strong enough to withstand the recoil, and mounted as low as is possible as well. The heavier, and the higher the scope is mounted the Torque that is applied destroys the smooth flow of the muzzle flip, and retards the rise of the muzzles to shoot to regulation! It seems most who buy the Cahpuis doubles are new to double rifles, and that could be some of the problem with the rifles. It doesn't take much of a mistake to totally destroy the regulation od a very light double rifle that shoots fairly fast cartridges. It bseems the biggest group haveing problems with these rifles are the new guys with 9.3, or smaller chamberings! Something to think about!

I don't own one, but I know that JJ will tell you the best bargain out there is a Chapuis. Never talked to him about anything as small as 9.3.

If a reasonable hunting scope is enough to mess up a double rifle, it must be more fragile then I think it is. Part of the attraction of a double is the reliability of a good second shot. Part of that reliability is hitting what I am at!



On a related note, these issues seem to be dominated by Chapuis rifles. It may be an issue of a few diehard anti-French/anti-Chapuis 'net snipers but, an unhappy owner of any high end rifle is going to be vocal. I don't run across bad Heym and Merkel posts very often. Hmm ...

quote:

It wasn't quite that far

I thought it was about 300 but I was using mine and Bal's "double all distances" technique of story telling we started in RSA. Makes for much better entertainment around the campfire!
All joking aside, at 278 yards it was one helluva shot!!

quote:

Originally posted by Sid Post:
If a reasonable hunting scope is enough to mess up a double rifle, it must be more fragile then I think it is. Part of the attraction of a double is the reliability of a good second shot. Part of that reliability is hitting what I am at!



Hmm ...

Sid it is not that the scope does anything to the rifle but retard it's recoil arch!

If the rifle was regulated to the iron sights, and the scope mounted by the maker he would have selected the proper weight, and highth of the scope to be mounted. You see this is a problem the has been a buga-boo for years in the USA. Most shooters here think they can just mount anything on a double rifle, and it will still shoot to it's built in regulation. Nothing could be farther from the truth.

This is why people here tell you to not take a double rifle to a gunsmith that is not a double rifle man, because not one out of one hundred understands the dynamics that make double rifles shoot to the regulation. You would not believe the number of good double rifles I have bought over the yrs because the owner thought he had bought a lemon, when the fact was he simply didn't know how to make it shoot properly.

The worse offenders are those who have been shooting bolt rifles all their lives, and being used to loading a dozen different loads, and bullet types in their Wally world bolt rifle.

Double rifle have their own set of rules,abide by them, and you will love double rifles. Disregard them, and you will have a double rifle on the used gun market at a loss to get rid of what you think is a lemon!

The DRSS is a whole different world, and you have to forget everything you learned about single barreled rifles, if you want to own double rifles and be a happy hunter!

I got my Chapuis from Foxhound, on ARBay, he got it from the group buy. I put a Trijicon on it, with the quick release mounts provided. It handles, better with out the scope, but I can't shoot that well with open sights. It shoots to the same point with either. It is regulated with Norma ammo and seems to regulate with most handloads I try. It shoots easy 1 and 1/2 inches at 100 yards. I did put a soft pad on it, because it's light and has a thin butt. I've put about two hundred rounds through it so far. The trigger pull is a little stiff, about 7 or eight pounds, so they will probably get smoothed up.
I don't think you could ask for more!

I don't have the experience of others here. It's only my second double rifle. The other was a Browning O/U also in 9.3. I like the Chapuis better.

Bfly

sounds like they are either real good, or real bad. I plan to get one this fall if all goes according to plan (ever say that to yourself?).

I handled every rifle on their display rack at Reno, my my them frogs do know how to make a double rifle. The wood was awesome, and the new retail of $6000 seems reasonable after holding the 9,3 x 74R's. They did have one 470 and one 500NE and those were twice the price. That makes not sense, but it is the same when you shop a DG vs a plains game hunt.

My 500 3" will likely be a Searcy because of pricing and value and made in America.

Rich
DRSS wanna-be
Buffalo Killer

I ORDERED A 9,3 IN THE GROUP BUY. IT WAS THE SECOND MOST EXPENSIVE RIFLE THEY OFFERED AND WAS SUPPOSED TO HAVE 3 OR 4 STAR LUXUS WOOD.

WHEN I GOT THE RIFLE THE STOCK WAS LOADED WITH SAPWOOD . IT LOOKED BLOND IN COLOR. TERRIBLE.

REPEATED E MAILS TO THE IMPORTER IN MINNESOTA WENT UNANSWERED.

IN EFFECT YOU ARE ON YOUR OWN WITH A CHAPUIS - IF YOU GET A GOOD ONE YOU ARE LUCKY.

IF NOT, THEY DON'T WANT TO KNOW YOU. THEIR ATTITUDE IS " GO AWAY" WE GOT YOUR MONEY.

A BETTER BUY IS THE SMALL FRAME MERKEL . IT HAS BARRELS YOU CAN ADJUST YOURSELF IF NEEDED OR IF YOU WANT TO TWEEK IT.

I CAUTION ANYONE CONSIDERING THE FROG MADE RIFLE ( FRENCH CHAPUIS ) TO GET IN WRITING FROM
THE SELLER EXACTLY WHAT THEY WILL DO TO HANDLE PROBLEMS - ESPECIALLY LIKE THE STOCK I GOT OR THE RIFLES THAT WON'T SHOOT PROPERLY. AND IF THE CAN'T MAKE THEM SHOOT WILL THEY GIVE YOU YOUR MONEY BACK OR A NEW RIFLE.

SEE WHAT THEY SAY, BUT MORE IMPORTANTLY WHAT THEY PUT IN WRITING. LAST TIME I WAS ON SITE JJ HAD BEEN REGULATING A CHAPUIS 9,3 FOR 6 MONTHS AND HADN'T GOTTEN IT YET ! SO MUCH FOR THE SPURIOUS THAT THE CHAPUIS IS ONE OF THE BEST DOUBLE RIFLES ON THE MARKET.

I'VE NEVER HAD ANY TROUBLE WITH THE MERKELS.
I'LL STICK WITH A GUN THEY STAND BEHIND, NOT TURN A DEAF EAR TO YOU ONCE THEY HAVE YOUR MONEY.

I

quote:

Originally posted by tomo577:

A BETTER BUY IS THE SMALL FRAME MERKEL .

I'VE NEVER HAD ANY TROUBLE WITH THE MERKELS.

THE CHAPUIS IS ONE OF THE BEST DOUBLE RIFLES ON THE MARKET. IT IS A LIE PUT FORWARD BY A CHAPUIS SELLER.

Tom:

Just a suggestion. Don't you think that posting stuff like the above, especially this one...

quote:

Originally posted by tomo577:
IT IS A LIE PUT FORWARD BY A CHAPUIS SELLER.

...would be more effective if you posted links to the 7 ads you have on gunsinternational.com offering new Merkels for sale?

Once you've set the hook, you gotta crank on the reel a little, ya know?

http://www.gunsinternational.c...59525&string=cid=106

http://www.gunsinternational.c...59523&string=cid=106

http://www.gunsinternational.c...59448&string=cid=106

http://www.gunsinternational.c...59026&string=cid=106

http://www.gunsinternational.c...59523&string=cid=105

http://www.gunsinternational.c...59448&string=cid=105

http://www.gunsinternational.c...59444&string=cid=107
--------------------------------------------
"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."

I have seen Tom bash Chapuis for awile now and I feel he has not told the whole story.

First let me say that although I sell Chapuis DR's I did not sell Tom the gun he was unhappy with.

I did however see the gun and did not feel it was as bad as he says and that many people would have been very happy with the wood. That said the only person a gun needs to please is the owner and if Tom was not happy with the wood then he had every reason to be disappointed. What Tom is not telling you is that before he ever saw the gun he had the gun shipped from the importer to a gunsmith who modified it by adding aftermarket scope rings (I guess this was to save some shipping costs).

Now Tom gets the modified gun back from his gunsmith and is unhappy with the wood. Since the gun has been modified the importer does not want to take it back (I do not blame the importer, that is what a 3 day inspection is for and the gun needs to be returned in the same condition as when it was shipped). What Tom wanted was to only exchange the stock and when that could not easily be done he became very vocal about how everyone was not helping him. Tom, if you had said you had a problem with the wood before you modified the gun I am sure this would have turned out differently.

I have had a Chapuis 9,3x74R for several years.
I have hunted with it quite a bit and have around 3500 to 4000 rounds through it.
Never a problem. Shoots good, I have taken game to a little over 300 yards.

My rifle was regulated with RWS 293 gr TUG and iron sights. It shoots and regulates fine with 286gr bullets with iron sights and the 2 scopes I have in mounts for it as well.

It is one of my most trusted and favorite rifles.

I use a chapuis in 8x57IRS for all my driven hunts on red deer. boars and roes. After installing a german regulationssystem (Fortner) I can regulate the barrels in high and side without problems. Shoots great (yesterday as the end of hunting season in Germany 3 shots one red deer, one roe deer and one boar)! Very nice wood, good engraving and perfect working ejectors!

I have 470 NE Chapuis, great gun and it delivered when I needed it. DEAD on!

Monastery, what is the Fortner system? will it work on other doubles?

On the subject of Chapuis rifles I will say this. Chapuis makes a very good moderately priced utility grade rifle. It performs well and is priced in a range that makes it attainable for many people that could not have previously afforded a double rifle.
I may be able to shed some light on the subject of the four problem rifles. I believe that three of them came from me. All three rifles were from the same shipment and had consecutive serial numbers. All were delivered in good condition and had very good test targets. All performed terribly when delivered to my customers. What the problem was with those three rifles I do not know. We originally thought that it might be the barrel stock but all of the rifles re-regulated fine. Maybe it was a bad batch of ammo used in the regulation. I do not know. It can happen and it can happen to any rifle brand out there. What makes a difference is what happens afterwards. Every one was replaced, not repaired, and all of the replacements are performing perfectly. My big regret is the inconvenience that was placed on my customers.

As for the sap wood stock, you have heard the story, now your going to hear the REST of the story. When TOMO ordered the gun he was very vocal about Chapuis not being responsive to their customers desires. Their rifles did not have near enough cast (we added an additional .25”for him), the engraving pattern on the trigger guard had a terrible bare spot in the middle (we added a rose in this area) and the cheek piece on the RGEX was grossly over sized (the people at Chapuis were very hesitant to change this but as a personal favor to me they agreed to make it smaller). When the rifles came in I did my normal inspection which includes taking pictures of each rifle and target. When I unwrapped TOMO’s rifle I was not very pleased. The smaller cheek piece looked totally out of place. This was the homeliest double rifle I ever saw. This was a homely that only a mother could love, but this was what TOMO ordered. I felt so bad about it that I actually discounted the price of the rifle an addition couple hundred dollars. I was not surprised to hear from TOMO but I was very surprised to hear his claim that the stock was defective. I looked the stock over very closely and I saw no sap wood. I contacted the gunsmith that did the trigger work. He had removed the stock to set the trigger pulls. He saw no sap wood (he is very highly regarded for his stock work on trap guns). I told TOMO that I would get him a new stock but he was going to have to pay for it because the one he had was not defective. There was no sap wood in that stock. The last straw came when he demanded that not only he get a new stock, but that it was to be made in the standard dimensions and not to the dimensions that he originally ordered.
Here is the way it is. If there is a problem with any gun that I sell, for any reason, I will take care of it by repairing , replacing, or giving the customer a full refund. If you check this out you will find that this has been true without exception. Even if the inspection period is over.
However, I will not be held responsible for special orders. If you ask for something, I will do all I can to accommodate. If you get it and then decide you don’t like it, I am sorry but it is yours.

As an interesting side note. I saw the ad TOMO placed on GA for this gun. He went to some length to describe how beautiful the stock was. The logical question then is - who were you not being completely honest with, me or your customers?

I am sorry to air this on the forum but some of it needed to be said.
DLN

DLN,

Thank you for taking the time to explain the other side of the story. I have seen similar situations in the NFA world where a vocal customer just isn't reasonable. It appears you were very professional in your dealings with this problem rifle/person/order.

Best Regards,
Sid

quote:

Originally posted by vigillinus:
Monastery, what is the Fortner system? will it work on other doubles?

As I know, you can install on each traditionell DR, perhaps with the exception of Blaser and Krieghoff.

I don't own one. Have shot them. But, JJ is sure high on them.

quote:

Originally posted by Kebco:
I have seen Tom bash Chapuis for awile now and I feel he has not told the whole story.

Tom appears to enjoy exploiting the reputations of honest folks. He has routinely pulled stunts similar to this one and is quick to cry to the world about how bad a particular item is or how he has been treated by someone. I find it disappointing that someone such as him feels the need to use these tactics in attempt to promote their own business. I have personally spoken to 3 different people who have done business with Tom and vowed never to do so again. These are people whom I have found to be great folks and stand behind their work. Tom takes advantage of these people who have done everything possible to make him happy, only to flame them on public forums in attempt to ruin their reputations. Anyone doing business with Tom should do a lot of research on his antics and be sure they know of his character.

Roscoe: I had two dealings with TOMO and both had turned out to be favorable. One dealt with a Merkel 140. in 9,3X74R a brand new double. I had broblems with the scope installation. He directed me to send the gun to his smith in California. Who promptly corrected all the ills
and got me back on track. I can only say I had good dealings with him.

MY HOW TIME DOTH CHANGE OUR MEMORIES. DLN NEVER OFFERED TO TO REPLACE THE SAP WOOD STOCK. NEVER.

IN FACT, HE NEVER RESPONDED TO ME AT ALL.

AND JUST REMEMBER- CHAPUIS DOES NOT HAVE ANY FACTORY SERVICE I USA THAT I AM AWARE OF.

DO YOU KNOW OF ANY CHAPUIS FACTORY SERVICE ?

I DON'T.

PEOPLE DON'T LIKE TO HEAR THE TRUTH OR FACTS.

LET'S ASK DLN TO POST A PICTURE OF THE STOCK THEN YOU DECIDE IF IT IS SAPWOOD OR NOT.

WHY DO YOU ALWAYS TYPE IN CAPITAL LETTERS?

Try turning off the "Caps Lock" on your computer and maybe you will get a little courtesy thrown your way. Typing in all caps is the same as shouting when responding on the internet.

But on the other hand, maybe you know that already.

quote:

Originally posted by RCG:
WHY DO YOU ALWAYS TYPE IN CAPITAL LETTERS?

Try turning off the "Caps Lock" on your computer and maybe you will get a little courtesy thrown your way. Typing in all caps is the same as shouting when responding on the internet.

But on the other hand, maybe you know that already.

Tom has been asked nicely several times and not so nicely several times. Some just choose to ignore him.

people who believe typing in caps is " shouting " probably believe in the tooth fairy and the easter bunny too.
GET A LIFE !

Tomo: My old eyes are already eased when you took off the caps. Humor Us Please.
Bob Studen

Tom,
I had one of the rifles that DLN spoke about which would not regulate. When I brought the issues to Dales attention he took full responsibility and offered me an immediate full refund, or to replace or repair the current rifle. It was my choice…..I asked him to have the rifle fixed which Chapuis did at no cost to me. In the mean time Dale asked if he could send me another rifle to use until mine was finished. So I would argue that there is Factory Service.

I also have been told that JJ is authorized to perform Factory service on Chapuis Rifles and yes he is in the USA!

As to your the request to have Dale post photos of the stock in question…..Why don’t you do post the photos. You are so quick to reticule people yet once again you provide noting to back up your claim?

I would also like you to answer the questions from Dale above?



1. As an interesting side note. I saw the ad TOMO placed on GA for this gun. He went to some length to describe how beautiful the stock was. The logical question then is - who were you not being completely honest with, me or your customers?
2. The last straw came when he demanded that not only he get a new stock, but that it was to be made in the standard dimensions and not to the dimensions that he originally ordered. What was the reason for this?

I believe you need to check the oxygen level on your breathing apparatus. All this talk of Sap wood, tooth ferries and the Easter bunny indicates that your brain may not be functioning properly.

I ordered the exact same 9.3mm Chapuis double with AAA wood - however the wood I got here (I am currently in Brazil) is almost "exibition grade"!!!

Great gun, extremely well regulated. Adn the wood is spetacular!

I have got it also regulated beautifully with a load I developed with a brazilian (terrible) powder.

Finaly I bought a .470 Chapuis that has a gorgeous stock. It is a superb hunting gun and I cant say enough about them both.