quote:

Originally posted by 5seventy:

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Most of the Brittish double rifle before WWI were barreled with German Krupp made cold hammer forged barrels.

Cold hammer forged barrels on DR's before 1914?

OHHHH, My favorite bird dog! Thank you Mr. Moon, You are correct, they were just "Krupp" barrel blanks, or many from Krupp steel!

Mac or others,

What actaully constitutes "the action" of a double??? I thought "the action" was the entire workings of the receiver combined.

If that were true...a Merkel action...has an A&D boxlock with a Greener cross-bolt and potentially Greener side-clips.

So it might be as much of Greener influence as anything...huh???

quote:

origenally posted by ledvm
What actaully constitutes "the action" of a double??? I thought "the action" was the entire workings of the receiver combined.

If that were true...a Merkel action...has an A&D boxlock with a Greener cross-bolt and potentially Greener side-clips.

So it might be as much of Greener influence as anything...huh???

J. Lane Easter, DVM

ledvm,I give up! Think what ever you want, but if you are correct, you need to send Merkel an E-mail to set them straight, because they are under the misconception that their rifles are made on Anson & Deeley actions! I'm sure they will be glad to get this information.

In regard to the barrels, very few of the rifle makers made their own barrels, prefering to spend thir time on building the finished rifles.
It is true that there were many English barrel makers to the trade. The barrel blanks that were not Krupp blanks were mostly made from imported Krupp steel because at the turn of the 19th/20th century Krupp made about the best barrel steel in the world. Even the makes that Tony named have not always made all their own barrels but bought many from barrel makers who used the best steel that was available to them, and many of those were made from Krupp steel, or were blanks made by Krupp.

.......................Hold your fire till I get my flack jacket on, and dig my fox hole!
.................................
BYE it's all your's! It's been fun folks,but I've about enjoyed about as much of the enternet as I care too! I'm going hunting!

lane

i will try to give it a go, from my very shaky memory, Anson and deely came first with their two bite action got a patent for it very early.

after that every tom, dick and harry tried in many ways to improve that action with their own inventions, some good like the greener cross bolt some maybe a bit overthinked

the shape and general construction of the A&D boxlock is still the industrie standard and most of us use it in one form or another.

So A&D first and everybody elses impovments after that.

hope that helps

peter

quote:

Originally posted by peterdk:
lane

i will try to give it a go, from my very shaky memory, Anson and deely came first with their two bite action got a patent for it very early.

after that every tom, dick and harry tried in many ways to improve that action with their own inventions, some good like the greener cross bolt some maybe a bit overthinked

the shape and general construction of the A&D boxlock is still the industrie standard and most of us use it in one form or another.

So A&D first and everybody elses impovments after that.

hope that helps

peter

Very eloquently written sir! Thank you! ...........................

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One question here! What in hell does the Greener action have to do with Merkel?

The only thing about Greener in a Merkel is the so-called Greener cross bolt. The Greener cross bolt is simply a simpler way of taking the place of the skill & work intensive "DOLL'S HEAD" but is just as strong if not stronger!

The Merkel action design is an Anson & Deeley box lock,not a Greener,

But Mac,

You gotta admit...the Merkel Action which is really NOT a Merkel Action at all but a A&D action...so there really is NOT a Merkel Action...but the "ONE" that Merkel uses...the Modified Anson & Deeley...DOES have some Greener qualities...still think Greener was the first to use side-clips and we all know the cross-bolt story by now.

I bought Sabatti DR in 9.3x74 because I have always wanted an "African Gun". Until I saw a Sabitti at Cabela's, I knew I could never afford to buy one.

I think that these DR's allow a blue collar worker to get into a different type of firearm, which those of us who watched to many movies about African Hunters.

I plan on using on a African hunt hopefully in 2012.

Would I like to have a Merkel, YES but that kind of money isn't available to me.

And THAT is the answer to the question. Sabattis will appeal to just this type of person ie. they would LIKE to own a K gun, Merkel etc. but can't afford it, or, don't want to give up other things in order to afford it. Competition occurs at price points. I do not believe that Sabatti will force Krieghoff or Merkel or VC to lower their prices. The last three named will compete, not on price, but on features at their own price point.
Peter.

Well said - The Sabattis appeal to a particular person and competition occurs at price points.

While I do not yet have a double; the hunger to carry one in the field set in a few years back. At last years SCI show the Sabatti .450-400 I handled at the Cabelas booth nearly pulled me away from the K gun or VC that I was leaning towards. I really liked what I saws for the $. But in the end it didn't (so far anyways). They might make a really minor dent in K, Merkel, and VC sales, but not too noticable of one in my opinion. My drool flows mainly in the direction of the VC.... Someday... I'm looking forward to handling all of them at next weeks SCI show.