The safety has to be able to come off fast, if not the rifle is useless,IMO.One day it will get you killed.If you want to play it that safe so as to need a special weird safety you might as well leave the rifle at home and take a camera instead...or take up something else.Steve,Why did you buy it in the first place?

quote:

Originally posted by Bill73:

quote:

Originally posted by MacD37:

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:
My Kreighoff .470 served me very well. It was accurate and well constructed. Very safe to carry and you simply had to learn to cock it on the rise.

One of the few doubles you felt comfortable resting against your body whilst glassing for game or fiddling with sticks.

I regret selling it.

I agree with Andrew! It makes no difference what rifle you use, there is a learning curve that must be completed before it is taken into the field with dangerous animals.
The K-gun is a very safe rifle to use, but it "IS" different and must be learned to get the best from it's use!
.............................................................................

Mac & Andrew,
very well said,I have no qualms taking my K-gun on any hunts,have done so & will do so again hopefully this year.

DRSS Like I said one fine firearm I should have kept. The safety on my VC is a bit too fluid for my liking and can easily be dislodged.

quote:

Originally posted by Steve Ahrenberg:

quote:

Originally posted by MacD37:

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:
My Kreighoff .470 served me very well. It was accurate and well constructed. Very safe to carry and you simply had to learn to cock it on the rise.

One of the few doubles you felt comfortable resting against your body whilst glassing for game or fiddling with sticks.

I regret selling it.

I agree with Andrew! It makes no difference what rifle you use, there is a learning curve that must be completed before it is taken into the field with dangerous animals.
The K-gun is a very safe rifle to use, but it "IS" different and must be learned to get the best from it's use!
.............................................................................

And exactly how do you rehearse following up a poorly shot lion?

Shooting at a charging piece of paper perhaps?

Now, I might have made the same statement prior to my experience with it.

I can safely say, my K-gun, will never get on another airplane as long as I own it.

Standing out in the desert or shooting range with all the time in the world...sure.

Mac, with "all your African experience," just how would you carry the K-gun, whilst following up a lion?

Steve,

I think Mac was stating you need to practise with any firearm of your choice. In my learning period I quickly found out that you could not cock a K whilst pointing thus your very first action was to cock before or whilst the gun is being raised.

With a wounded Lion I would have the safety off and the barrel pointed forward with any rifle.

I shot two wounded hippo with the K at very close range and was happy with the results of this double.

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:

quote:

Originally posted by Steve Ahrenberg:

quote:

Originally posted by MacD37:

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:
My Kreighoff .470 served me very well. It was accurate and well constructed. Very safe to carry and you simply had to learn to cock it on the rise.

One of the few doubles you felt comfortable resting against your body whilst glassing for game or fiddling with sticks.

I regret selling it.

I agree with Andrew! It makes no difference what rifle you use, there is a learning curve that must be completed before it is taken into the field with dangerous animals.
The K-gun is a very safe rifle to use, but it "IS" different and must be learned to get the best from it's use!
.............................................................................

And exactly how do you rehearse following up a poorly shot lion?

Shooting at a charging piece of paper perhaps?

Now, I might have made the same statement prior to my experience with it.

I can safely say, my K-gun, will never get on another airplane as long as I own it.

Standing out in the desert or shooting range with all the time in the world...sure.

Mac, with "all your African experience," just how would you carry the K-gun, whilst following up a lion?

Steve,

I think Mac was stating you need to practise with any firearm of your choice. In my learning period I quickly found out that you could not cock a K whilst pointing thus your very first action was to cock before or whilst the gun is being raised.

With a wounded Lion I would have the safety off and the barrel pointed forward with any rifle.

I shot two wounded hippo with the K at very close range and was happy with the results of this double.

Andrew,

I get what he's eluding to. But, no matter of practice, or rifle familiarity can prepare you for that. It was hot, I was sweating profusely, every movement and noise was a charging Lion. It has made me a better and more patient hunter in that, I WILL NOT TAKE A SHOT I am not 100 percent comfortable with.

There was or has been no greater life altering event, than facing that charge in that particularly thick piece of Africa with Alister. NO WORDS can prepare you.

Now, combining that experience with a stiff cocking device is just something I will do my best to avoid.

I claim no special skill set, only the experience to put the two parts of the subject together. In fact, when I (we) were following for one night and half the following day, I was sick to my stomach, scared completely shitless, and wanted nothing more than to be anywhere but where I was. I wasn't brave, only committed to completing the task that I started.

Rifle familiarity is a given and I believe most traveling sportsmen are as comfortable as the circumstances around their practice will allow.

I believe YOUR quote went something like this "Few men will face the grim task of following up a wounded lion into thick cover."

about right?

Steve

Just to add; After Alister called it a night (the evening of the initial shot) I lay awake in my Chalet. I could not sleep, replaying time after time after time the sight picture and what might have gone wrong.

I picked up my sat. phone and phoned my wife, told her of my day. She was mortified for me. She kinda knew that a wounded Lion isn't a good thing. We awoke early, Johnny duPlooy and his client from Florida were there to help a bit.

They helped till around 10:30. We all stopped and regrouped, Johnny wished us good luck and left us to it. Alister would not give up, we faced the charge about noon.

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:

quote:

Originally posted by Bill73:

quote:

Originally posted by MacD37:

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:
My Kreighoff .470 served me very well. It was accurate and well constructed. Very safe to carry and you simply had to learn to cock it on the rise.

One of the few doubles you felt comfortable resting against your body whilst glassing for game or fiddling with sticks.

I regret selling it.

I agree with Andrew! It makes no difference what rifle you use, there is a learning curve that must be completed before it is taken into the field with dangerous animals.
The K-gun is a very safe rifle to use, but it "IS" different and must be learned to get the best from it's use!
.............................................................................

Mac & Andrew,
very well said,I have no qualms taking my K-gun on any hunts,have done so & will do so again hopefully this year.

DRSS Like I said one fine firearm I should have kept. The safety on my VC is a bit too fluid for my liking and can easily be dislodged.

Yup you just nailed it,I have guns with both types of safeties & I have experienced a traditional safety jumping to half safety with factory ammo & so has a friend of mine,two different brands of guns,this happened after the first shot,this would never happen with a K-gun,now mind you,I blame this on factory ammo & not handloads,another point to note is that some english guns did have a second safety to secure the main safety,& we have heard stories of gun bearers accidentally discharging guns in the field sometimes with fatal results.Anyhow I would take any of my guns into the field & be comfortable hunting with them,like has been said here,it's all a learning curve & if you do not do your homework properly? you might find yourself in a tight situation.

quote:

Mac, with "all your African experience," just how would you carry the K-gun, whilst following up a lion?

Steve, I fully see the sarcasm in your post above, and you certainly have more experience than I with even one follow-up of a wounded lion in heavy bush. I have never followed a wounded lion even in open country. I would say you are the one who needs to tell me how to do it.

Like you the African lion scares me silly, when wounded and being allowed to get into the weeds. But like any other animal under the same conditions, with a K-gun I would cock the rifle and carry it pointed toward the sky with my finger off the trigger. This the way I would carry even my other doubles the same way when I couldn't see ten feet in front of me fingers off the triggers and muzzle high. port arms.

The African lion is the only animal in Africa that I really Dred following in tight bush. Since you have done it and didn't like it with your K-gun then I suppose you are making the right choice in not doing it again.

...........................................................Good hunting Steve,

quote:

Originally posted by MacD37:

quote:

Mac, with "all your African experience," just how would you carry the K-gun, whilst following up a lion?

Steve, I fully see the sarcasm in your post above, and you certainly have more experience than I with even one follow-up of a wounded lion in heavy bush. I have never followed a wounded lion even in open country. I would say you are the one who needs to tell me how to do it.

Like you the African lion scares me silly, when wounded and being allowed to get into the weeds. But like any other animal under the same conditions, with a K-gun I would cock the rifle and carry it pointed toward the sky with my finger off the trigger. This the way I would carry even my other doubles the same way when I couldn't see ten feet in front of me fingers off the triggers and muzzle high. port arms.

The African lion is the only animal in Africa that I really Dred following in tight bush. Since you have done it and didn't like it with your K-gun then I suppose you are making the right choice in not doing it again.

...........................................................Good hunting Steve,

I'll just make one more comment as to carrying a rifle "off" safe.

Stu Taylor...

quote:

Originally posted by Steve Ahrenberg:

quote:

Originally posted by MacD37:

quote:

Mac, with "all your African experience," just how would you carry the K-gun, whilst following up a lion?

Steve, I fully see the sarcasm in your post above, and you certainly have more experience than I with even one follow-up of a wounded lion in heavy bush. I have never followed a wounded lion even in open country. I would say you are the one who needs to tell me how to do it.

Like you the African lion scares me silly, when wounded and being allowed to get into the weeds. But like any other animal under the same conditions, with a K-gun I would cock the rifle and carry it pointed toward the sky with my finger off the trigger. This the way I would carry even my other doubles the same way when I couldn't see ten feet in front of me fingers off the triggers and muzzle high. port arms.

The African lion is the only animal in Africa that I really Dred following in tight bush. Since you have done it and didn't like it with your K-gun then I suppose you are making the right choice in not doing it again.

...........................................................Good hunting Steve,

I'll just make one more comment as to carrying a rifle "off" safe.

Stu Taylor...

Steve,

There is many a word that has been posted here regarding carrying a safe firearm.

OK to clarify what you are stating is that the K gun cocking devise could be problematic in a tight situation such as your Lion follow up especially when dealing with split seconds and the stress of a lengthy follow up. Here I agree that if you had raised your K gun in anger and forgotten to cock it then there is no way to rectify this in that position and therefore this is a disadvantage. The cocking piece is way too far forward for that to be physically possible.

My comments were more directed at what would be an imminent charge scenario and here I would keep the safety off. My method is to cup my hand around the trigger guard therefore isolating the triggers and keeping the barrels pointed away from others but forward.

Lion do have a tendency to announce their intentions and here you have a second or so to adjust your position and firearm. In addition you will have the back up of a PH. But and there is always a but - the slightest discrepancy can get you into serious trouble.

Only a very few will experience the likes of your Lion charge and you and the very fine Mr. Norton concluded the deal in great style. A hunt that will be forever etched in your mind.

Nice post Andrew,

I think you get my gist here. The title of the thread is "Why not Kreighoff"

I am simply stating my reasons as to what I see, "as a client hunter" the flaws.

If all you have is a K-gun, great. My situation is I have other to choose from, they will get the nod.

As to Mr. Norton, I will be spending a few days with his sister and brother in law after the SCI show. Both fine folks.

Krieghoff informed me that “80 to 100 professional hunters hunt with a Krieghoff Classic Big Five.” Wow, that’s a high number. In comparison with some of you those phs seem to understand how a ”Kreighoff” works.

I wrote this when I was D99 12 years ago.

I guess someone wanted to dig it up again.

quote:

Originally posted by Sunshine:
Krieghoff informed me that “80 to 100 professional hunters hunt with a Krieghoff Classic Big Five.” Wow, that’s a high number. In comparison with some of you those phs seem to understand how a ”Kreighoff” works.

I completely understand how it works, thats why I will leave it in the safe and grab a DR with a more traditional top tang safety.

Out of those 80-100 PH's, how many would be OK with a recreational sport hunter, walking around behind him, gun OFF SAFE when in a high stress buffalo or Lion follow up?

Run those numbers and get back to me.

quote:

Originally posted by Sunshine:
Krieghoff informed me that “80 to 100 professional hunters hunt with a Krieghoff Classic Big Five.” Wow, that’s a high number. In comparison with some of you those phs seem to understand how a ”Kreighoff” works.

I wonder how the numbers are broken down?
Of the 80 to 100...
How many are experienced PHs in Zim or Zam?
How many are SA PHs with a week of training and shoot impala at a water hole?
Steve A. is spot on in his observations.
Cal

Blaser bolt actions use a similar system & I have not heard anything negative about them besides being ugly, but yet you guys are knocking K-guns.

Cal,
Have you hunted with a k-gun?
Steve has experience hunting with one & that's fair, I would hunt with mine anywhere any game, what are you basing your opinion on?

Hi Bill:
I didn't make an opinion on the K rifles, but was asking out of curiosity the experience of the PHs. Of course that will never be known but I wanted to stir the pot a bit as claims by makers may have a bit of grey area in them. The quality of PHs varies greatly in Africa.

I only hunt, shoot, and collect pre war doubles from the UK. My only expereince with a K gun is shooting a friend's rifle. That experience was one (of the many) that limited my focus on the older, vintage rifles.

Following wounded game? My only experice has been leopard, grizzly, and a few buffalo. Personally I would not feel comfortable with any new contraption that had not stood the test of time. Others, of course, will purchase and practice with the rifle of their choice and do well with it.

Cheers,
Cal