quote:

Originally posted by Colin Masters:
What happened?

quote:

Originally posted by LHeym500:
Just to be clear, I think the K rifle is a good rifle. I even said so, but at the price of a new one, I would and did by a Heym or a VC.

A clean used K rifle at 9-11k is a great buy. If the stock fits and you like how the rifle is specd out like you like. But at16 k new. I think you get more with VC or Heym

....Mac >>>===(x)===> MacD37, ...and DUGABOY1
DRSS Charter member
"If I die today, I've had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"~ME 1982

Hands of Old Elmer Keith

quote:

Originally posted by LHeym500:
Just to be clear, I think the K rifle is a good rifle. I even said so, but at the price of a new one, I would and did by a Heym or a VC.

A clean used K rifle at 9-11k is a great buy. If the stock fits and you like how the rifle is specd out like you like. But at16 k new. I think you get more with VC or Heym

quote:

Originally posted by Sunshine:
Both Heym and me are German. I contacted Heym and asked for a double barrel catalog plus price list. Unreal but true: the company has neither catalog nor price list, not even on the internet! Only a catalog showing bolt action rifles, single barrel rifles and combinations guns. Heym told me I should have a look at the US website. For prices I must contact Heym Germany.

Sunshine;

Apparently the Heym individual who responded to your request of a catalogue is ignorant of the world facts. Via the web search for HeymUSA.com and you can download the Heym catalogues. I even have a printed 4 or 5 page Heym catalogue of 3 years back which in vivid color shows all their bolt action rifles, double rifles and shotguns. The catalogue I have is printed in English and does not have prices.

Well, in Germany not many hunters seem to be interested in Heym double barrel rifles. Maybe because of the problems with model 80B? With Krieghoff doubles it‘s a complete different story. A lot of hunters buy their Classic and Classic Big Five double barrel rifles..

quote:

Originally posted by Transvaal:
Sunshine;

I understand better now. You must be on the right track about why Heym do not have a German printed catalogue. Seems odd to me that the local demand for Heym rifles is low as they are as they are such well engineered rifles and even have shoe lump barrels.

I hope that one of the USA Heym people makes a comment about this subject.

quote:

Originally posted by Bill73:

quote:

Originally posted by LHeym500:
Just to be clear, I think the K rifle is a good rifle. I even said so, but at the price of a new one, I would and did by a Heym or a VC.

A clean used K rifle at 9-11k is a great buy. If the stock fits and you like how the rifle is specd out like you like. But at16 k new. I think you get more with VC or Heym

A used K gun can be had at an easy 8k,where are you getting your prices? I paid 11400 for mine new,with great wood,BTW I do have two Heyms as well,all great rifles,when I am hunting I do not care what is in my hands,they all shoot good,including my O/U 458 Lott CZ

quote:

Originally posted by Sunshine:
Both Heym and me are German. I contacted Heym and asked for a double barrel catalog plus price list. Unreal but true: the company has neither catalog nor price list, not even on the internet! Only a catalog showing bolt action rifles, single barrel rifles and combinations guns. Heym told me I should have a look at the US website.

www.heymusa.com


HSC Booth # 306
SCI Booth # 3947

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
I think the popularity of the Krieghoff doubles in southern Africa among PHs has more to do with their special pricing programs for PHs than anything to do with the relative quality of the rifles compared to other options. Offer PHs a choice between a Krieghoff and a Heym at the same price and see which one will be the "master of the doubles".

....Mac >>>===(x)===> MacD37, ...and DUGABOY1
DRSS Charter member
"If I die today, I've had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"~ME 1982

Hands of Old Elmer Keith

quote:

Originally posted by LHeym500:
Kreigoff is advertising a sharp sidelock double is this issue of Sports Afiled. Very traditional looking and no cocking system. It appears to be a back action.

The model is called the Essencia.

quote:

Originally posted by LHeym500:
Kreigoff is advertising a sharp sidelock double is this issue of Sports Afiled. Very traditional looking and no cocking system. It appears to be a back action.

The model is called the Essencia.

www.heymusa.com


HSC Booth # 306
SCI Booth # 3947

quote:

Originally posted by LHeym500:
No price was given, but I could see that. The rifle pictured has a fair amount of gold inlaid.

Again, 45K Euros versus 18K green backs for a traditional, English style double. The Heym is a box lock versus this back action side lock. Buyers will have to decide who has the value. I was and am not in the market for a back action side lock. Said another way, if 45k Euros is a good price, it might as well be 450,000 Euros to me.

quote:

Originally posted by DuggaBoye:
D R Hunter,

I cannot speak to the current K gun production,
the smaller caliber barrels may now have smaller outer diameters, or be tapered -
I do not think they do, however,
I do not know-
since, I gave up on them over a decade ago.

In the early guns,
the 450-400,9.3 and 375 Belted were not terribly uncomfortable to shoot without weight in the butt stock-
(never fired the 375 Flanged K Gun)

The 500 and 470's (and to some degree the 500-416)
were unpleasant , to say the least,
without mercury or lead augmentation.

In general, none felt comparatively balanced to my English (or some of my other ) double rifles.

Specific practice of specific tasks,
in general does increase speed and efficiency,
that said:
As to someone becoming proficient from the shoulder to remove a K Gun DR from safe,
in a controlled fashion, maintaining point of aim,

I am unaware of anyone that can do this reliably on command, if at all.

Additionally,
certain situations from the ready at the shoulder are simply not possible:

IE: if the PH commanded :
GUN UP- SAFE (hold target)
THEN:
SHOOT (unsafe the gun)

and particularly then-
IF -
there is a sudden command change to:
DON'T SHOOT -(SAFE the gun)

While off the shoulder, with the gun on safe at low position,
you can practice and become relatively fluid in the:
(1) lift/cock,
then,
(2) shoulder/aim/fire ,
two step procedure.
that is then-Reversed to down/un-cock

Even so, this is sub-optimal in time and efficiency
as compared to a standard manual tang safety .

For me, having hunted and practiced with the guns ,
I choose to have in my hands,
particularly -up close,
a more expeditious and controllable safety mechanism,
which is available to be utilized in a split second
from any relative position.

To me ,
the inferred safety advantages of the K Gun are just that :
inferred.

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:
My Kreighoff .470 served me very well. It was accurate and well constructed. Very safe to carry and you simply had to learn to cock it on the rise.

One of the few doubles you felt comfortable resting against your body whilst glassing for game or fiddling with sticks.

I regret selling it.

....Mac >>>===(x)===> MacD37, ...and DUGABOY1
DRSS Charter member
"If I die today, I've had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"~ME 1982

Hands of Old Elmer Keith

quote:

Originally posted by Steve Ahrenberg:

quote:

Originally posted by DuggaBoye:
D R Hunter,

I cannot speak to the current K gun production,
the smaller caliber barrels may now have smaller outer diameters, or be tapered -
I do not think they do, however,
I do not know-
since, I gave up on them over a decade ago.

In the early guns,
the 450-400,9.3 and 375 Belted were not terribly uncomfortable to shoot without weight in the butt stock-
(never fired the 375 Flanged K Gun)

The 500 and 470's (and to some degree the 500-416)
were unpleasant , to say the least,
without mercury or lead augmentation.

In general, none felt comparatively balanced to my English (or some of my other ) double rifles.

Specific practice of specific tasks,
in general does increase speed and efficiency,
that said:
As to someone becoming proficient from the shoulder to remove a K Gun DR from safe,
in a controlled fashion, maintaining point of aim,

I am unaware of anyone that can do this reliably on command, if at all.

Additionally,
certain situations from the ready at the shoulder are simply not possible:

IE: if the PH commanded :
GUN UP- SAFE (hold target)
THEN:
SHOOT (unsafe the gun)

and particularly then-
IF -
there is a sudden command change to:
DON'T SHOOT -(SAFE the gun)

While off the shoulder, with the gun on safe at low position,
you can practice and become relatively fluid in the:
(1) lift/cock,
then,
(2) shoulder/aim/fire ,
two step procedure.
that is then-Reversed to down/un-cock

Even so, this is sub-optimal in time and efficiency
as compared to a standard manual tang safety .

For me, having hunted and practiced with the guns ,
I choose to have in my hands,
particularly -up close,
a more expeditious and controllable safety mechanism,
which is available to be utilized in a split second
from any relative position.

To me ,
the inferred safety advantages of the K Gun are just that :
inferred.

DuggaBoye,

I completely agree with your assessment of the K guns operation and short range liabilities.

I had the opportunity to follow my wounded lion into some terribly thick Africa in 2005. My PH on that Safari was Alister Norton. He instructed me, due to the cocking device to go into the bush, cocked. He was wise and experienced enough to know that had I been charged, I may not be able to cock the rifle and get a killing shot off in sufficient time.

Charge came, we were actually side by side at the time.

That said, Mike Burke here on AR and I got into this debate several years ago. He posted a video of him cocking his K gun while at the shoulder or raising it to the shoulder, I cannot remember.

I cannot repeat that with mine.

Great and informative posting DuggaBoye.

Steve

quote:

Originally posted by MacD37:

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:
My Kreighoff .470 served me very well. It was accurate and well constructed. Very safe to carry and you simply had to learn to cock it on the rise.

One of the few doubles you felt comfortable resting against your body whilst glassing for game or fiddling with sticks.

I regret selling it.

I agree with Andrew! It makes no difference what rifle you use, there is a learning curve that must be completed before it is taken into the field with dangerous animals.
The K-gun is a very safe rifle to use, but it "IS" different and must be learned to get the best from it's use!
.............................................................................

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
I think the popularity of the Krieghoff doubles in southern Africa among PHs has more to do with their special pricing programs for PHs than anything to do with the relative quality of the rifles compared to other options. Offer PHs a choice between a Krieghoff and a Heym at the same price and see which one will be the "master of the doubles".

quote:

Originally posted by Bill73:

quote:

Originally posted by Steve Ahrenberg:

quote:

Originally posted by DuggaBoye:
D R Hunter,

I cannot speak to the current K gun production,
the smaller caliber barrels may now have smaller outer diameters, or be tapered -
I do not think they do, however,
I do not know-
since, I gave up on them over a decade ago.

In the early guns,
the 450-400,9.3 and 375 Belted were not terribly uncomfortable to shoot without weight in the butt stock-
(never fired the 375 Flanged K Gun)

The 500 and 470's (and to some degree the 500-416)
were unpleasant , to say the least,
without mercury or lead augmentation.

In general, none felt comparatively balanced to my English (or some of my other ) double rifles.

Specific practice of specific tasks,
in general does increase speed and efficiency,
that said:
As to someone becoming proficient from the shoulder to remove a K Gun DR from safe,
in a controlled fashion, maintaining point of aim,

I am unaware of anyone that can do this reliably on command, if at all.

Additionally,
certain situations from the ready at the shoulder are simply not possible:

IE: if the PH commanded :
GUN UP- SAFE (hold target)
THEN:
SHOOT (unsafe the gun)

and particularly then-
IF -
there is a sudden command change to:
DON'T SHOOT -(SAFE the gun)

While off the shoulder, with the gun on safe at low position,
you can practice and become relatively fluid in the:
(1) lift/cock,
then,
(2) shoulder/aim/fire ,
two step procedure.
that is then-Reversed to down/un-cock

Even so, this is sub-optimal in time and efficiency
as compared to a standard manual tang safety .

For me, having hunted and practiced with the guns ,
I choose to have in my hands,
particularly -up close,
a more expeditious and controllable safety mechanism,
which is available to be utilized in a split second
from any relative position.

To me ,
the inferred safety advantages of the K Gun are just that :
inferred.

DuggaBoye,

I completely agree with your assessment of the K guns operation and short range liabilities.

I had the opportunity to follow my wounded lion into some terribly thick Africa in 2005. My PH on that Safari was Alister Norton. He instructed me, due to the cocking device to go into the bush, cocked. He was wise and experienced enough to know that had I been charged, I may not be able to cock the rifle and get a killing shot off in sufficient time.

Charge came, we were actually side by side at the time.

That said, Mike Burke here on AR and I got into this debate several years ago. He posted a video of him cocking his K gun while at the shoulder or raising it to the shoulder, I cannot remember.

I cannot repeat that with mine.

Great and informative posting DuggaBoye.

Steve

Just curious here not looking to start anything,why would you not have your safety off while going into heavy bush after a wounded cat anyways regardless of the make of the rifle? in a fast & furious situation? I would have my safety off.

quote:

Originally posted by MacD37:

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:
My Kreighoff .470 served me very well. It was accurate and well constructed. Very safe to carry and you simply had to learn to cock it on the rise.

One of the few doubles you felt comfortable resting against your body whilst glassing for game or fiddling with sticks.

I regret selling it.

I agree with Andrew! It makes no difference what rifle you use, there is a learning curve that must be completed before it is taken into the field with dangerous animals.
The K-gun is a very safe rifle to use, but it "IS" different and must be learned to get the best from it's use!
.............................................................................