Looking at a double in 9.3x74R. having never owned a double I need some advice/opinions. Out of the Merkel 141E or Sabatti Safari which should i really look at in terms of quality and accuracy. Ive read some stuff on the problems with Sabattis but ive also read some stuff on Merkels and its still left me undecided. the sabaati was made in 2012 and the merkel in 2015.

which one should i buy?

Don't forget Chapuis. I bought one from a member here a month ago. I still haven't shot it yet (it's hot as hades), but a very tight gun with great wood.

Dont seem to be many Chapuis down here in Oz. Well none that ive been able to find.

Don't think your likly to go wrong with a Sabati BUT I do like the Merkel.

A mate of mine is a top quality double rifle gunsmith and has compared the inner workings of the two brands you mentioned, and he would choose Merkel.

I own a Merkel .500NE, and have handled the Merkel 9.3x74R. It is excellent. I would love to own one someday.

Had a Sabatti in 450/400 , couldn't get it to shoot anywhere near the factory target supplied with the rifle , regardless of loads etc. Shots were printing 6 inches apart horizontally and 3.5 inches vertically. Received my money back from the dealer ( great customer service )and bought a second hand Merkel 140 AE. It shot nearly as bad . I know what you are thinking , this bloke can't shoot for shit but then again no body else that had a shot out of it could do any better. Traded it on a new Merkel 140 and I am pleased to report this one shoots where it is supposed to. So really it is down to the luck of the draw. I know a few people with Sabittis and they swear by them but if was me , I would still go with Merkel. If for no other reason you will get some money back when or if you have to sell it

I'd put Sabatti way down on the list. Merkel is a far better choice. Personally and since 1982, I've owned a FN-Browning o/u in 9,3x74R, still better but cost is nearing British doubles...

Some would say I am biased on this subject-- but here goes. I purchased a Sabatti double in 9.3x74 after I came back from the SCI show in Vegas in 2012. The double rifles on display at the Safari Club International were nothing short of spectacular.
The Sabatti's that had the muzzle problems were the fault of a supply deadline between Sabatti and Cabelas. I have been a lover of double rifles for nearly 40 years. I have handled ( not owned) nearly all the major manufacturers of double rifles. I have more books on doubles than I do Penthouse magazines. Yes, if I had a spare 50 grand, I would buy an English double, but for the money and quality, Sabatti has it
Cheers Malcolm

Ok so either is fine it seems but Merkel do make a better rifle overall. Will look at one then. Thanks.

One more thing-- you can't compare an under and over double with a side by side double--- just my two cents worth--- OH Ben KK, can I get the name of that double rifle gunsmith here in Australia please, as I have a friend with a cheaper double that requires fiddlin' with.
Cheers Malcolm

I have sxs by Merkel and sabatti I also own a Beretta o/u

Thw Beretta and Merkel are in a different class than a Sabatti as the pricing difference reflects.
I would be reluctant to purchase anything other than current production Sabatti. The reason being they have an accuracy guarantee so it appears they have corrected their earlier problems'
I recently picked up a new Sabatti in 9.3, the quality is terrific for a rifle under 3K but in no way comparable to my Merkel or Beretta. The sabatti I have patterns nicely for the 2 times I have had the chance to shoot it

Hello ismail82,

I have had 3 Sabatti Doubles, 9.3x74R, 470NE, and a 500NE, but I sold my 9.3x74R. I have never owned a Merkel, but I do own doubles by; Westley Richards, Verney Carron, Wm Richards, John Dixon, Lefaucheux, Kettner, Sabatti, Stendabach, Jansen, and Larona.

I still have the 470NE and the 500NE Sabatti doubles, but I sold the 9.3x74R because it was way too light. Although it was a very good shooter, it had the opti-wood stock and weighed only 6 pounds, 15 ounces - it really kicked like hell and wasn't much fun to shoot, so it went down the road.

Compared to all the other brands I own, I have been very satisfied with the Sabatti rifles from the standpoint of function and form, and very much so from the standpoint of their reasonable price.

Not comparing a sxs with o/u. Both are sxs. Yes I did note the weight of the safari and that's something I have against it. Definitely leaning more towards the Merkel and next year either a Verney carron 470NE or heym 470 NE. :-)

I would look for a used Merkel Model 140, the full-sized double rifle in 9.3x74R. To me, the newer Model 141 is too short and toy-like compared to a full size DR.

quote:

Originally posted by Biebs:
I would look for a used Merkel Model 140, the full-sized double rifle in 9.3x74R. To me, the newer Model 141 is too short and toy-like compared to a full size DR.

Just a comment on the Merkel 141 - it's very light and handy. Scoped, my 9.3x74r 141 tips in at 8# ready to rock (6.5# naked). Recoil with that silly rubber sliver Merkel calls a recoil pad, launching a 286gr. Partition at 2250 fps is darn snappy.

On the other hand, It's also incredibly light and handy and packs a huge punch. I'm not a big guy at 5'8" at 185# and the 141 fits me perfectly.

The 141 is built on a 28ga frame while the 140 is built on a 20ga frame. The difference is significant.

Anyway, good luck with your search!

quote:

Originally posted by Malcom
I have more books on doubles than I do Penthouse magazines. Yes, if I had a spare 50 grand, I would buy an English double,
Cheers Malcolm

All lies Malcom. You could purchase a full battery of Westleys and let's not discuss you collection of Penthouse!

I've pondered for years trading my English doubles for Penthouse or Playboy. Perhaps there is a market…
Cal

quote:

I've pondered for years trading my English doubles for Penthouse or Playboy.

Those are some LOOOONG winters in Alaska :-)

quote:

Originally posted by rnovi:

quote:

Originally posted by Biebs:
I would look for a used Merkel Model 140, the full-sized double rifle in 9.3x74R. To me, the newer Model 141 is too short and toy-like compared to a full size DR.

Just a comment on the Merkel 141 - it's very light and handy. Scoped, my 9.3x74r 141 tips in at 8# ready to rock (6.5# naked). Recoil with that silly rubber sliver Merkel calls a recoil pad, launching a 286gr. Partition at 2250 fps is darn snappy.<<snip

Snip>>The 141 is built on a 28ga frame while the 140 is built on a 20ga frame. The difference is significant.

Anyway, good luck with your search!

The above is true! I have a 140E-1, 9.3X74R that I bought new and it came with a solid butt plate. It weighed 8.3 pounds and when I fired it the first time, not expecting the amount of recoil I accidently strummed the back trigger and got a double discharge. That rifle went to the smith for a Pachmayer decelerator. Then about eight years later Merkel came out with the 141E. Chris brought one down to the ranch and when I fired it the memory came rushing back, and it was not pleasant.

In my opinion the 141 Merkel is too light for the 9.3X74R cartridge. I much prefer the 140E-1 but that is just me!

...................................................................

I've been very happy with my Merkel. It regulates well and once I replaced the "recoil pad" with a decelerator it became really comfortable to shoot. I'd like to add a small-medium bore companion to it some day.

Besides the 140E-1 I also have a 140-2 Safari, chambered for 470NE that I bought from a poster here on AR who bought it to take two elephant hunts where he took two fine Ele bulls, and three cape buffalo with it. He had a Kick-Eze recoil pad fitted to it that is still working very well today after eight years of my shooting it a couple of hundred rounds through it with zero problem.

The pair of Merkels compliment each other very well!
.....................................................................

I'd take the Merkel every day of the week and twice on Sunday before ever contemplating the Sabatti. Killed several elephant and buff with my Merkel. Never had an issue with it.

AND, no dremel tool was required to make it shoot straight!!!

That said, if you can find one, the Chapuis UGEX in 9.3x74 is a nice little rifle. I've got one that's equipped with a quick detach scope. I've taken game (Impala) at over 250 yards with it, as well as a lion back in 2012.

I agree with Todd. HEY, WHAT DID I JUST SAY ???????

quote:

Originally posted by Biebs:
I agree with Todd. HEY, WHAT DID I JUST SAY ???????

Biebs, now repeat after me:

Blaser
Blaser
Blaser

Rinse .. Repeat!

You guys crack me up.

Todd, I've got to go try out this Chapuis. I'm too dumb or lazy to handload, but the seller said the Norma 286gr. is just about the regulation load for Chapuis. Is that your experience?

Marcus, mine shot just about anything I feed it without issue. That is, until I put the scope on it. Completely threw out the regulation. Others have mounted scopes on their UGEX without issue. DR's are very individualistic.

I went through numerous hand loads until finding something my rifle would shoot well with the scope. Once I found it, it was 100%. And to confuse the matter further, it shoots the same load perfectly to regulation WITHOUT the scope! Go figure.

Here's a little video clip of that Chapuis in action!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xf4V1XXlY6A

Todd, nice "ass shot" on that first Wartie. I've personally never used that as an aiming point....very effective!

quote:

Originally posted by Biebs:
Todd, nice "ass shot" on that first Wartie. I've personally never used that as an aiming point....very effective!

"Ass Shot"? You and Shit-his-breeches been hanging out lately?

PS: Glad to have you back on AR!

I have owned three doubles and the one I still own is a Sabatti in 450NE. Of the three the Sabatti shot the best and was regulated the best and I am a hand loader. Mine is an early one with good muzzles and as far as fit and finish, as good as the others, could it be better,yes but it is as good as the two others I owned, one German and one American.

quote:

Originally posted by Biebs:
PS: Glad to have you back on AR!

I'll still dip a toe or two in the water when I feel the need to poke the bear a bit!

quote:

Originally posted by clayman216:
I have owned three doubles and the one I still own is a Sabatti in 450NE. Of the three the Sabatti shot the best and was regulated the best and I am a hand loader. Mine is an early one with good muzzles and as far as fit and finish, as good as the others, could it be better,yes but it is as good as the two others I owned, one German and one American.

I don't think you are allowed to say the Sabatti works as good or better than a German or American double on this forum..........

quote:

Originally posted by INTJ:

quote:

Originally posted by clayman216:
I have owned three doubles and the one I still own is a Sabatti in 450NE. Of the three the Sabatti shot the best and was regulated the best and I am a hand loader. Mine is an early one with good muzzles and as far as fit and finish, as good as the others, could it be better,yes but it is as good as the two others I owned, one German and one American.

I don't think you are allowed to say the Sabatti works as good or better than a German or American double on this forum..........

You can SAY it.

If you want to be taken seriously however ... THAT'S another matter!

quote:

Originally posted by clayman216:
...as good as the two others I owned, one German and one American.

I've heard numerous rumblings in private but nobody wants to ruffle feathers by warning others with their experience.

.

To any who doubt- bring your doubles down and we will shoot a match.

quote:

Originally posted by Todd Williams:
I'd take the Merkel every day of the week and twice on Sunday before ever contemplating the Sabatti. Killed several elephant and buff with my Merkel. Never had an issue with it.

AND, no dremel tool was required to make it shoot straight!!!

That said, if you can find one, the Chapuis UGEX in 9.3x74 is a nice little rifle. I've got one that's equipped with a quick detach scope. I've taken game (Impala) at over 250 yards with it, as well as a lion back in 2012.

I agree with Todd....on the Blasers, too!

quote:

I agree with Todd....on the Blasers, too!

Now there's a matched pair of Turds :-)

quote:

Originally posted by Biebs:

quote:

I agree with Todd....on the Blasers, too!

Now there's a matched pair of Turds :-)

A real set of matching TURDS would be an R8 or R93 AND a Sabatti DR. Now that combo would really stink up the place!