Much conversation is made about the accuracy of bolt rifles vs double rifles.

I suggest ya'll try this.

Take a very accurate bolt rifle, and a double rifle of similar power/recoil.
Be sure both rifles have the same sighting system, ie both scoped or both iron sights.

Shoot both rifles say 10 rounds at 25 yards off hand, 10 rounds at 50 yards off hand, 10 rounds kneeling at 75 yards, and 10 rounds sitting at 100 yards, and 10 rounds from standing/sticks at 100 yards.

Report results here.

Actually, I have shot a 458 Bolt rifle with iron sights AND scope side by side with my 450 No2 from field hunting positions, I found no difference in "accuracy".

Actually NE 450, all this shows is that there are other (greater) sources that contribute to accuracy/inaccuracy than the firearm itself, right? This is certainly a valid point when the consideration is hunting, and people are talking about how well their favorite tackdriver shoots off the bench. Generally this means how well their favorite tackdriver ONCE shot off the bench.
Peter.

more fun.. or at least cheaper....

shoot 10 rounds of 22, standing...
shoot 10 rounds of your favorite big bore
repeat twice
compare the growth in group size...

alternative

shoot 20 rounds of your favorite big bore.

then pick up a 22 and try to shoot groups.

if you can keep the 22 within 2" at 50, you are doing GREAT, assuming all shots standing
jeffe

Gentlemen,

Under hunting conditions, the weakest link in the trio - ammo, rifle, hunter - is without a doubt the hunter.

The nice part about having an accurate rifle/ammo combination is when one has to take a careful, rested shot something like a croc to hit the brain.

Or shoot an animal at relatively longer distances.

A good rifle does make a differance off hand. If you hold 4 moa. and shoot a 1/4 moa rifle your group size might grow to 4.25", if you shoot a 2 moa rifle your group size may grow to
6". that is almost 50 % more. thats at a 100 yards . X2 at 200, and X3 at 300. That does not even consider the effect of wind. How do we hit anything?
JD

JD,

The math doesn't work that way. I hope someone who knows the math chimes in. But here's the short version of my understanding, which is based on reading about the issue some too long ago time:

The shooter's errors and the rifle's errors are not additive, though common sense seems to tell you that they must be. Instead, the combined errors don't add up to much change from the hunter's errors even if he is shooting an imaginary perfect rifle.

I only recall this kernel from my reading and don't even recall what I was reading or why I was doing the reading.

JPK

It kind of works both ways. You break the shot on the outer edge of your 4 moa wobble, and the cone of the 2 moa ammo rifle combo also put the shot on that outer edge away from your point of aim. You are 6 moa out from aim point. one possible of many. You break your shot on the edge of your 4 moa wooble , the cone of the rifle ammo combo falls to the inside of the wooble placeing your shot 2 moa from point of aim. In one shot it opened your group to the max, in the next it placed your shot closer to point of aim pure good luck. To learn to shoot well you need a good rifle ammo combo, A moa set up is a place to start .5 moa is even better. You need to know that the hits were yours and not just good luck and that the misses were also yours and not just bad luck. You Can't develop good tec and
the skill to read conditions if you luck into your hits or have bad luck deal you misses.

JD

JD,

I thought so too, but the statisics proved otherwise, as I recall.

JPK

JD:
A properly centred 4 MOA group has no shot further away from point-of-aim than 2 MOA. Add a further 2 MOA 'ammo-rifle-combo' cone to that and you are only 1 MOA further from Point-of-Aim, at worst.

You appear to have inadvertently confused group diameter with radius!

Valid points, otherwise.

Remember too that in a 4 MOA group, most shots should be closer to the centre than the 'fringe'. If your groups resemble 'donuts', there is likely some other factor in play.

I think the weakest link is the person behind the gun Double or Bolt. I think most people would be amazed at how far you can hit with a properly regulated Double. The problem is most people don’t practice at longer ranges with there Double. I think with the addition of a scope 600 yards wouldn’t be imposable. Yes I know it wouldn’t be easy and you would have to know your trajectory and bullet drop, but if you actually practiced at longer ranges it is doable. Just for the record I recommend the most steady position possible when shooting game.
My local club has a public sight in days event to help the general public sight in there deer rifle. I am amazed at the number of people who never shoot a rifle any other position than on the bench. When I suggest they try offhand they are shocked that you might hit something that way. I think the 6†gong at 200 is a fun target. We have been known to paint a black 2’’ circle in the middle just to see who byes the “cokesâ€
Bill