quote:

Originally posted by 465H&H:
I would sell it and get one of the new Searcy Field Grades.

465H&H

That's an option, but simply send in your older model Merkel and have it changed over to what you want for "nothing". I haven't shot a Searcy, but the reputation is that they are the most accurate of all double rifles. And Butch needs to be commended for this. However, the Merkel is also an extremely accurate DR as well. You have to decide on the money. I personally want a gun made by Butch, but it's not in the budget just yet. I'll have to live with my lowly Merkels for now. But when my ship comes in, a couple of Searcys are in my budget; if he'll build them for me.

I think Craig Boddington paid the greatest tribute to Butch a few years ago when he attributed the re-emergence of the double rifle in America to the fact that Butch Searcy made double rifles sexy again in America; or something along those lines (Not trying to quote Craig).

Butch, more than anyone else, needs to honored in America with the resurgence of the appeal for double rifles. And from what I hear, he takes no pain at making every one as accurate as he can make it.

I would be honored to own a Butch Searcy Rifle.

quote:

Originally posted by mdstewart:

quote:

Originally posted by surestrike:
IF a rifle doubles on either barrel and you didn't accidentally pull the other trigger that is a MECHANICAL problem. If the gun won't regulate because you shot the left barrel first and then the right barrel that is a REGULATION problem.

There really are so many old housewives tales about doubles. The difference between POI between the left barrel or right barrel depending on which trigger was pulled first should be so slight as to be immeasurable.

Don't preoccupy your self with inconsequential increments. If you've got a rifle that only allows you to shoot one barrel or the other first or it won't function GET RID OF IT or get it fixed, but in any case it's a piece of junk.

Absolutely not true. All double rifle makers regulate their guns with right barrels shot first, followed by 5-10 seconds for the second shot from the left barrel. If you don't believe this, then you don't understand how doubles are regulated.

That's not to say that you may be able to shoot the left barrel first and all is ok. That's just not how they are designed. And it's been that way since the beginning of double rifles. Your statement is so off-base. I seldom get in an up-roar about issues here, but this is one issue where you are totally wrong. No double rifle maker in history has done it any other way. And I challenge you to find an exception, unless it be for adjustable barrel guns.

All double rifles, and I say all, were designed to shoot right barrel first (unless they are a truly left hand model). Any argument otherwise is just

And of course after getting your panties in a twist you apparently lost your ability read and comprehend. Do us ALL a favor and give Butch Searcy a call and ask him if it makes a determinable difference AT ALL in regulation whether you shoot your left barrel or your right barrel first.

I've had this conversation with Butch and with another double gun builder. Both say the same thing. It shouldn't make enough difference to matter as far as regulations goes. IE The inconsequential increment that you are all freaked out about.

And finally ANY TIME you want to go have a little contest with a double rifle just make the date. We'll just see who's got chicken soup and who'd got a pile of chickenshit!

quote:

if you have that much time to think about it on dangerous game, then I hope you're lucky.

Sounds like a man prone to panic and unable to control his emotions in times of danger. Of course you should have the capacity to chose a trigger just like you'll need the mental capacity flip the safety off!

But lets not take it to the worst case scenario how about when you catch that big ole bull in a herd and you've got a quick window of opportunity? If you've got two solids up the pipes you are SOL.

quote:

Originally posted by surestrike:

quote:

Originally posted by mdstewart:

quote:

Originally posted by surestrike:
IF a rifle doubles on either barrel and you didn't accidentally pull the other trigger that is a MECHANICAL problem. If the gun won't regulate because you shot the left barrel first and then the right barrel that is a REGULATION problem.

There really are so many old housewives tales about doubles. The difference between POI between the left barrel or right barrel depending on which trigger was pulled first should be so slight as to be immeasurable.

Don't preoccupy your self with inconsequential increments. If you've got a rifle that only allows you to shoot one barrel or the other first or it won't function GET RID OF IT or get it fixed, but in any case it's a piece of junk.

Absolutely not true. All double rifle makers regulate their guns with right barrels shot first, followed by 5-10 seconds for the second shot from the left barrel. If you don't believe this, then you don't understand how doubles are regulated.

That's not to say that you may be able to shoot the left barrel first and all is ok. That's just not how they are designed. And it's been that way since the beginning of double rifles. Your statement is so off-base. I seldom get in an up-roar about issues here, but this is one issue where you are totally wrong. No double rifle maker in history has done it any other way. And I challenge you to find an exception, unless it be for adjustable barrel guns.

All double rifles, and I say all, were designed to shoot right barrel first (unless they are a truly left hand model). Any argument otherwise is just

And of course after getting your panties in a twist you apparently lost your ability read and comprehend. Do us ALL a favor and give Butch Searcy a call and ask him if it makes a determinable difference AT ALL in regulation whether you shoot your left barrel or your right barrel first.

I've had this conversation with Butch and with another double gun builder. Both say the same thing. It shouldn't make enough difference to matter as far as regulations goes. IE The inconsequential increment that you are all freaked out about.

And finally ANY TIME you want to go have a little contest with a double rifle just make the date. We'll just see who's got chicken soup and who'd got a pile of chickenshit!

quote:

if you have that much time to think about it on dangerous game, then I hope you're lucky.

Sounds like a man prone to panic and unable to control his emotions in times of danger. Of course you should have the capacity to chose a trigger just like you'll need the mental capacity flip the safety off!

But lets not take it to the worst case scenario how about when you catch that big ole bull in a herd and you've got a quick window of opportunity? If you've got two solids up the pipes you are SOL.

I'm lost about what you're saying, but if you're wanting a shoot off, then I'm game, and regardless of the outcome, we are double riles shooters, and I can live with the resuts.

I'm a hunter, not a bragger. However, I'm always willing to put data in front of emotion. I am willing to to put you into any secenario in which any of my two personally owed double rifes, both of which are Merkels, and if you can make them double under normal hunting conditions, then I will humbly bow before you and claim inferiority in the double rifle world.

By the way, I'm taking both of my Merkel double rifles on a bear hunt in a couple of weeks, and I don't anticipate any doubling in the taking of a nice black bear.

Surestrike, I have looked at your posts and you are obviously an experieced hunter and shooter. I respect your integrity and experience, and I hope you will do the same with me.

These useless pisssing contests are not what we are about. I submit: YOU WIN.

Gents:
Not to get into a pissing contest, but for nearly 25 years I have shot my vintage doubles (I've never owned a modern double--my newest is from 1920) left barrel first. It was not an issue of doubling or anything else, I just feel my grip is better with the closer trigger and am on target more accurately. As to the fact that doubles are made with different trigger pulls I have not experienced that in the few dozen rifles I've had the pleasure to own and shoot over the years. I have never had a double discharge whilst shooting the left barrel first. A couple of mates had my doubles double on them and they fired the right first. I don't understand this as the rear trigger is not touched when firing the right first and if it was a mechanical problem (such as a sear) then the rifles should double most of the time if not all of the time. To conclude, all I can say is I never have had a double double on me when firing the left barrel first. Left barrel first is a habit now: it is not thought of, it is automatic. And, with a shooting range in my front yard, I shoot about 100 shots per week in the warm months here so my doubles get used. Even the big hammer doubles--an 8 and a 4--have not doubled under tremendous recoil, and neither has my .600. I don't know the answer.......
Cheers,
Cal

quote:

I'm lost about what you're saying,

md,

What I am saying is that it doesn't matter how the rifle was regulated at the time of manufacture. Pulling the left barrel first does not make a properly regulated rifle change it's POI and if it does affect it's regulation it is to such a minor degree that you the shooter would not notice it under field conditions. AKA an inconsequential increment.

I am not trashing on Merkle rifles in the least but if you have one that is doubling on the left barrel you've got a mechanical problem there is no black magic involved.

Shooting the left barrel first is simply not that big of deal in regards to function or accuracy. That's what I'm saying.

BTW I do not tend to shoot left barrel first unless for some reason I have the bullet I want to shoot first in that side OR the rifle I am shooting has too long an LOP which makes it more prone to "bouncing" the back trigger in recoil, pretty rare for me at over 15" LOP.

In any case I've found that teaching a guy how to properly grip the forend stops most all bouncing issues immediately.

We'll have to do that shooting competition someday in the name of good sportsmanship, fun and double rifles NOT however a pissing match.

While not the high end rifles some hunt with, neither my Chapuis, or my Sabatti shoot significantly different with left barrel first vs right barrel first groups.

quote:

Originally posted by AK_Stick:
While not the high end rifles some hunt with, neither my Chapuis, or my Sabatti shoot significantly different with left barrel first vs right barrel first groups.

I've never seen a double that does.

quote:

Originally posted by BigB:
Mac,

I never had a double with your rifle when I had it and had about 8 different people that shot it. As I recall I never used the rear trigger first as when hunting I always used the Federal solids in both barrels. I would always shoot the front trigger first.

bigB

Gentlemen I have never doubled my Merkel in ten years of shooting it with full house loads both on the range, or hunting, and I makes no differtence which barrel I fire first on eather of them. My only question was WHY three other people got whacked with the 470NE double when they pulled back trigger first.

As bigB says above he had the rifle for two years before I bought it from him. He not only shot the rifle on the range but took it on two safaris where he killed two bull elephant and three cape buffalo with it. As he says it never doubled on him either,or others he let shoot it and says he never pulled the back trigger first, but I have pulled the back trigger many times with no double discharge.

I doubt there is a double rifle that is twelve years old or older that has not been doubled by someone, regardless of which trigger was pulled first and it is most times shooter error.

The fact that people who do not own a double rifle gets a double dicharge when shooting a double they are not used to, doesn't necessarily mean it is a defective rifle.

However, I suppose the rank and file here has decided the Merkels are just junk because three people have experienced a DD with my rifle while I and bigB have had zero DDs with this rifle in a total of twelve years of shooting and hunting with it!

Damn fellows, I didn't post this to start World war III. I guess I could settle this and take a cutting torch and cut my two Merkels up for scrap,and post pictures of it, then you guys wouldn't have anything to argue about, but don't even mention the name Merkel in the same thread with SABATTI.

quote:

If you have a Merkel that you believe is doubling without fault of your own, contact either Einar or Danny at 205-655-8299, and if the gun was imported by GSI,Merkel USA, HK, or Steyr Arms, they will make sure the issue is fixed.

...................................................................................... ............................

So are the new Merkel 140AE having an issue with doubling. if the rear trigger is pulled first?? l have read some threads about this here and on other forums. But seems to be older topics. l only ask as l am looking to get a double shortly and the Merkel is on my list.
l thought if they have intercepting sears, this should not be an issue. Sorry for the peon/newby dumb question.

From the Merkel site:
SAFARI SIDE-BY-SIDE RIFLE 140AE: Anson & Deeley locks | steel action | Greenerstyle cross bolt and double bottom bite | double trigger with articulated front trigger | manual safety with intercepting sears | with ejectors | African express sight | pistol grip, cheek piece and straight stock | rubber recoil pad

quote:

Originally posted by Jack H:
So are the new Merkel 140AE having an issue with doubling. if the rear trigger is pulled first?? l have read some threads about this here and on other forums. But seems to be older topics. l only ask as l am looking to get a double shortly and the Merkel is on my list.
l thought if they have intercepting sears, this should not be an issue. Sorry for the peon/newby dumb question.

From the Merkel site:
SAFARI SIDE-BY-SIDE RIFLE 140AE: Anson & Deeley locks | steel action | Greenerstyle cross bolt and double bottom bite | double trigger with articulated front trigger | manual safety with intercepting sears | with ejectors | African express sight | pistol grip, cheek piece and straight stock | rubber recoil pad

I would say that pretty much answers your question! There will be no doubleing with intercepting sears because of recoil, but the intercepting sears will not stop operator arror causing a double discharge by strumming the triggers. This doesn't only apply to Merkel double rifles but to any make!

Stupid question. What is the purpose of intercepting sears? Do they prevent doubling or accidental discharge if the rifle is dropped with the safety on?

Yes. The hammers can't fall past the second sear unless the trigger is pulled, which releases both the primary and the safety sear. Think of it as a second sear that only comes into play if the hammer falls and the trigger is forward. There is a picture of it on this DR thread; "PH & Classic Model interceptor system".