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Another option could be to get the .450 and use 375gr lead practice bullets and step up to the 500gr loads when you do actually go hunting for dangerous game. | |||
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That come real close to the 75% rule! Use the 375 gr bullet with the same powder load that regulates the 480 gr bullet. With a little fine tuning most doubles will shoot tp the regulation with bullets very close the 75% in weight as the standard bullet which is 480 grs in the 450NE 3 1/4". It is still my opinion that unless you intend shooting a lot of elephant, and if buffalo, the cats and large plains game will be you targets most of the time, the 450/400NE 3" is a better choice. I've never met anyone who owned a double rifle chambered for the 450/400NE cartridges that didn't absolutely love the rifle! ....Mac >>>===(x)===> MacD37, ...and DUGABOY1 DRSS Charter member "If I die today, I've had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"~ME 1982 Hands of Old Elmer Keith  | |||
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I'm with Mac on this one. A 450-400 is more than enough for anything in this world. Unless you just want a 470 or 500 NE. Just because you want one. Rich | |||
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HELP! I'm surprised that there are so many votes for the 450/400. According to Hornady's table the 450/400 has muzzle energy of 3,732 foot pounds. My .375 has muzzle energy of 4,263. The 450/400 seems so weak. There must be something here I don't understand. | |||
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You already know the answers: 1) enough is enough 2) muzzle energy doesnt tell the whole story (my 30-378 Weatherby generates 4,500 ft-lbs with a 165grain bullet - hardly the right medicine for Cape buffalo or elephant) 3) size does matter and .410 (.408 - .412) starts out bigger than .375 and all else being equal (which it rarely is) will be bigger after expansion and 4) if you believe John Taylor had an idea about what works and what doesnt, the 450/400 has a higher Taylor K.O. value than your .375. Now take all of this with a grain of salt as it comes from a guy who regularly shoots a 600 Overkill, had a 600 NE double and will have another in a few months for his next trip back to Africa BUT I have come to love my 450/400 NRA Lifer; DSC Lifer; SCI member; DRSS; AR member since November 9 2003 Don't Save the best for last, the smile for later or the "Thanks" for tomorow | |||
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Guys, I spoke with Jorge today. He was in TX and had been to Cabela's to inspect a few of these rifles. One in particular "spoke" to him and the choice was made. I won't spoil his party so when he returns home he can let everyone in on the selection made. I believe he made the right choice and can't wait to hear how it shoots for him! | |||
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RG, One can also get off a second shot much faster the the bolt gun and also the bigger bullet frontal diameter. Mike | |||
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I met Jorge at the DSC meeting in Dallas last night (really nice guy), I too believe he made the right choice...if he hadn't bought that rifle I was next in line for it. Karl Evans | |||
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Well boys, John is indeed right, one of them did indeed "sing" to me, it is a gorgeous ejector model in 450NE with a target that was dead nuts at 50M. Really, I could have picked any one of the three I looked at but the combination of the 450s more punch, gorgeous wood and target made the decision a no brainer. I also had the pleasure of meeting BG458 at the DSC Dinner and we had a great chat. Man I had this all planned like a mission; except my return flight home today. The gun arrived at my gun shop but my plane landed ten minutes too late! So I have to spend tonight in a lather waiting for the gun shop to open tomorrow. I'll post pics as soon as I pick it up. Thanks for all the help guys, but a special "thank you" goes to my friend John S who so eloquently said " get the 450NE and 450/400 is a woman's caliber"!!!! nuff said!  USN (ret) DRSS Verney-Carron 450NE Cogswell & Harrison 375 Fl NE Sabatti Big Five 375 FL Magnum NE DSC Life Member NRA Life Member | |||
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Jorge, Great choice! So when are you going to chase down something big with that 450NE?...Looking forward to seeing pictures. Best, jjs | |||
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Jorge, you will love it. Welcome to the DRSS. Mike | |||
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Hi guys, just got it home. The pics SUCK but I'll get better ones later. Here at least is the factory target and one lousy pic. It has bootiful wood!   USN (ret) DRSS Verney-Carron 450NE Cogswell & Harrison 375 Fl NE Sabatti Big Five 375 FL Magnum NE DSC Life Member NRA Life Member | |||
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As my buddy Nigel has always said: "Essentially the 450/400 is a .375 H&H as to its performance on game. Adequate...but for me personally...I like a bit more." For ele and buff...the 470 NE would be my 1st choice, 450 2nd, and would settle for the 450/400 in a pinch. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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Absolutely nothing wrong with that choice of caliber!!! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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jorge: if it's turns out it is not accurate enough for you, I could be persuaded to take it off of your hands... Karl Karl Evans | |||
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I bet I can best that target You thinking about the 470 at all?USN (ret) DRSS Verney-Carron 450NE Cogswell & Harrison 375 Fl NE Sabatti Big Five 375 FL Magnum NE DSC Life Member NRA Life Member | |||
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Congrats Jorge!!!! Very nice iron. I have a Searcy Deluxe in 450 and it's a great round...of course have the 450/400 too and it's very nice also....but when the lady sings to you, gotta go with that. Best of luck with her. Gary DRSS NRA Lifer SCI DSC | |||
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Very Nice!!! Congrats on the new toy. | |||
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Thanks, guys. Say Garby maybe we can work on your original idea and we can all meet up at the Judge's place and have us a shootout! Ernest you game? I think he has a Searcy as well but if I remember correctly, you had other brands too? USN (ret) DRSS Verney-Carron 450NE Cogswell & Harrison 375 Fl NE Sabatti Big Five 375 FL Magnum NE DSC Life Member NRA Life Member | |||
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jorge: yes, I am thinking about the .470...I am going to Cabella's tomorrow afternoon to give it a very close look and see what happens. Karl Evans | |||
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Jorge: Yes, I have 2 Searcy's....450 NE and 375 Flanged as well as a V/C/Demas 450/400 3". Also bolt trash (Heyms) in 404 and 500 Jeff. The Merkel, Heym and K-gun were sold sometime back. I have a few boxes of Hornady 450 NE that I got cheap and (I think) a few reloads as well....I need to check my inventory. Bow season opened this past weekend at my camp in the Panhandle and I have been working on that. I'd be up for a trip if we can all get our schedules sorted....be a blast. Gary DRSS NRA Lifer SCI DSC | |||
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Panhandle? I'm in Pensacola through Wednesday, but yeah, let's do it! USN (ret) DRSS Verney-Carron 450NE Cogswell & Harrison 375 Fl NE Sabatti Big Five 375 FL Magnum NE DSC Life Member NRA Life Member | |||
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did you shoot that damn gun yet... Mike | |||
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:::SIGH::: not yet Mike. Been on business travel and got back today. I'll go to the range on Friday, I promise! USN (ret) DRSS Verney-Carron 450NE Cogswell & Harrison 375 Fl NE Sabatti Big Five 375 FL Magnum NE DSC Life Member NRA Life Member | |||
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Yeah...interested in that session as well....let us know how she shoots. I have a couple of loads I've worked up with RL15 and H4350....along with Butch's standard 4831 load....haven't decided on my favorite because I HAVEN'T SHOT IT ENOUGH!!!! Bidness always seems to come first.....why is that? Gary DRSS NRA Lifer SCI DSC | |||
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So you can afford all those doubles! Man, I decided to clean the barrels before shooting tomorrow so I used Wipeout. LOTS of BLUE came out! I guess does Hornadys appear to be as soft as Swifts. Lots of copper fouling. USN (ret) DRSS Verney-Carron 450NE Cogswell & Harrison 375 Fl NE Sabatti Big Five 375 FL Magnum NE DSC Life Member NRA Life Member | |||
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Just returned from the range men. Target distance was 50 yards. I fired three, two shot groups labeled R-1, L-1, etc. As you can see the first shots were a bit high but once I figured out the hold it was easy to get near and on the bullseye. Comments MOST appreciated regarding group size, pattern, etc. This was done with Hornady Factory ammo of 480gr DGX. Recoil was very tolerable even from the bench. I used three sand bags so I was sitting almost perpendicular with my hand on the bag under the forearm and my right elbow resting on the bench. I had a lot of fun and one more "check in the block" for me. I've only waited about forty years for a double jorge USN (ret) DRSS Verney-Carron 450NE Cogswell & Harrison 375 Fl NE Sabatti Big Five 375 FL Magnum NE DSC Life Member NRA Life Member | |||
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Great jorge - congrats! Now (IMO) forget about paper targets for a while and get some 3D stuff (bottles, jugs, baloons, rocks, clays...) that will let you know when you hit them and fire away some more - offhand, standing, kneeling...get the feel of it (safety, triggers, sights...) - anything from 10 yards on...and have even more fun - those things are made for that | |||
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Some better pics of the wood:  [IMG] USN (ret) DRSS Verney-Carron 450NE Cogswell & Harrison 375 Fl NE Sabatti Big Five 375 FL Magnum NE DSC Life Member NRA Life Member | |||
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Well done. Get a bag of cheap balloons. Blow them up until they are 4" in diameter and clip them to the range backstop. Then practice busting two with a right-left (or left right) from 25-30 yards off hand. Good practice and great fun. Mike | |||
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I have another embarrasingly stupid question, but it appears the rounds are "crossing." Is that ok? I'm fine with the accuracy and I know my rifle is regulated with Hornady Factory but naturally I plan to reload. Does anybody have any suggestions (I plan on using RL-15) as to loads? Also at 50 yards are these groups printing the way they should? Appreciate any iputs please. jorge USN (ret) DRSS Verney-Carron 450NE Cogswell & Harrison 375 Fl NE Sabatti Big Five 375 FL Magnum NE DSC Life Member NRA Life Member | |||
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If your rounds are indeed crossing, left printing on the right and vice versa then they are too fast. Have you ran them thru a cronograph? I load 4831 in my 450's. So I can't help with RL15. NRA Life ASSRA Life DRSS Today's Quote: Give a man a fish and he eats for a day. Give a man a welfare check, a free cell phone with free monthly minutes, food stamps, section 8 housing, a forty ounce malt liquor, a crack pipe and some Air Jordan's and he votes Democrat for a lifetime. | |||
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Mike: I have not run then through a chrono but will do so tomorrow and see what I get. Incidentally, I looked all over for a set of dies and brass and no luck. Plenty of loaded ammo though. Still the X over issue bothers me a bit and I know I can do better with handloads. USN (ret) DRSS Verney-Carron 450NE Cogswell & Harrison 375 Fl NE Sabatti Big Five 375 FL Magnum NE DSC Life Member NRA Life Member | |||
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I went over my notes again and I think part of the problem is me trying to compensate in trying to hit the bull. I plan to take it out to the range again tomorrow and focus strictly on point of aim, then see what happens. No biggie on re-regulation though, if I get to that, it's a trip tp JJ at Champlin's. jorge USN (ret) DRSS Verney-Carron 450NE Cogswell & Harrison 375 Fl NE Sabatti Big Five 375 FL Magnum NE DSC Life Member NRA Life Member | |||
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Try shooting the right barrel at a seperate target from the left barrel/target. Then look at the composite target. Don't get in a rush to get it overhauled til you know for sure what's wrong. If you look around the net some you'll find dies and brass I'll bet. NRA Life ASSRA Life DRSS Today's Quote: Give a man a fish and he eats for a day. Give a man a welfare check, a free cell phone with free monthly minutes, food stamps, section 8 housing, a forty ounce malt liquor, a crack pipe and some Air Jordan's and he votes Democrat for a lifetime. | |||
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Jorge, Congrats on the new double, it looks like a beauty. However you'll soon realize the main expense associated with owning a double is going after buff/elephant,... Hope it brings you lots of great trophies! Jim | |||
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Thanks, Jim. And yes you are so right in that regard! For those of you that are interested, went to the range this morning and produced this group:  Point of aim was the top of red vertical crosshair arrow at the bottom. As you can see, I definitively have a Xover issue, but it begs the question; Given the groups and aimpoint, should I mess with it? velocities were preyy close, with a high of 2117 for the right barrel and a low of 2093 on the left, but out of ten total rounds fire, velocity hovered around 2100. Thanks again to all that have helped. jorge USN (ret) DRSS Verney-Carron 450NE Cogswell & Harrison 375 Fl NE Sabatti Big Five 375 FL Magnum NE DSC Life Member NRA Life Member | |||
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Does anybody have any load data they can share please? (including trim length) .Apparently the new Hornady Reloading Manual #8 has 450NE data but Midway only has #7. I have Rl-15, IMR4350 and a whole host of other powders on hand as well as Hornady 480DGX bullets. Brass is on backorder but I have a few fired cases and a set of dies coming. Thanks! USN (ret) DRSS Verney-Carron 450NE Cogswell & Harrison 375 Fl NE Sabatti Big Five 375 FL Magnum NE DSC Life Member NRA Life Member | |||
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Look for a PM in a minute or two,Jorge. NRA Life ASSRA Life DRSS Today's Quote: Give a man a fish and he eats for a day. Give a man a welfare check, a free cell phone with free monthly minutes, food stamps, section 8 housing, a forty ounce malt liquor, a crack pipe and some Air Jordan's and he votes Democrat for a lifetime. | |||
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The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Double Rifles CALIBER SELECTION FOR *ME* AND MY FIRST DOUBLE RANGE RESULTS!
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