Please don't gang up on me for this question but after watching the elephant charge on the TV show Dangerous Game how many are confident the two head shots that missed the brain wouild have knocked that bull down if 450/400s were used? The 458 Dakota and the PHs 458 of some flavor missed the brain but knocked the bull down and provided for side finishing shots. I know there is an on going love affair with the 450/400 and I know someone is going to say "do you know how many elephants have been killed by the 450/400" but!!!! I have my doubts in that situation. The 400's forte is penetration not shock. Do you think it would have worked in that situation? I guess I'm really asking how many feel it is adequate for all situations with elephant?

A fine question, I look forward to those who "have been through it" to respond!

Shot placement is paramount! I don't care what caliber of rifle you use.

Rusty:

I agree with you but the situation I described had two PHs side by side that both missed the brain but knocked down the bull.

quote:

Shot placement is paramount! I don't care what caliber of rifle you use.

This kind of rhetoric completely misses the point. Anyone who knows anything about elephant hunting knows that even the most experienced hunters do not hit the brain every time, even if they do opt to shoot a wimpy caliber.

So the question becomes: When you miss the brain, will your cartridge impart enough shock to the elephant to slow him down enough for a 2nd shot?

A lot of the guys who have shot thousands of elephant like a 450 or 470 class cartridge for hunting elephant, but prefer a .500 class cartridge for following wounded elephant into the thick stuff.

Taylor said it would in his experience and one of my PHs knocked a charging cow ele down at 6 paces with a missed brain shot. He has knocked several down over the years and used it with complete confidence.

465H&H

I think if you anyalize all of Taylors writings, you may agree with me, that the 450/400 was his overall favorite.
I "feel" the 450/400's are "plenty" enough for hunting elephant.
However I believe in Physics and feel that the 450 to 475's with their 480 to 520 grain bullets are "mo better". Like wise the 500 is a little step up over the 450/475's. I think the 577 is a big step up with the 600 another step up. It is simple Physics.
However elephant have been shot in the head with the 600, and even the 700 where the brain was missed and it did not knock the elephant down.
So while I feel a bigger gun is better "on paper" it is only better in the field if it is "well handled".
While I would LOVE to have a 577, I feel fully confident in my 450 No2, especially after shooting 3 elephants. Still as Rusty said, the shot must be in the correct place for best results.
I think you are better off to perfect your shooting with a gun you can handle, than moving up to a bigger gun you cannot shoot well, depending on the guns power to get you out of a jam.

I will say this, when it comes to elephants, and cape buffalo for that matter, I would prefer a 450/400 double to a bigger bolt rifle.

ne 450 #2
"will say this, when it comes to elephants, and cape buffalo for that matter, I would prefer a 450/400 double to a bigger bolt rifle"
Just wondering if you could name a time you would take a bolt gun over a double rifle!
Dean

I think the 450/400 is an excellent combination of bullet weight/sectional density
& velocity. This correlates into a lighter, nicer handling double with enough penetration &
"knockdown" power for elephant. The recoil is very manageable allowing for a quick second shot
if necessary. Make sure you use quality solids!

Jungleboy,
NICE elephant!

tonto
Last Oct. I went on a horseback back country elk hunt. I really wanted to take my 9,3x74R Chapuis, but just hated to put it on a horse, so I took my 300 Mag Blaser R 93.

I have a goat, black bear hunt booked in BC Canada for 2007 and I plan on taking my Blaser K 95 Stutzen in 308 [It is only half of a double rifle ].
I also have a Grizzly Bear hunt booked in Alaska next spring, so I will probably take the Blaser R 93 in 300 Win Mag or 375 H&H.
So yes there are times I use other than a double rifle.... But I always consider if one of my doubles would be the best choice, especially the 9,3 as it is scoped.
It might make the Alaskan trip.

But for elephants ALWAYS a double for me.