quote:

Originally posted by husky:
So was it AFreeman that ordered those Sabatti´s in .450, .470 and .500 N.E. that now are sold by Cabelas?

They sure looked like Sabatti's to me. I had the same thought after reading the thread on NE.
----------------------------------
"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."

quote:

Originally posted by 400 Nitro Express:

quote:

Originally posted by husky:
So was it AFreeman that ordered those Sabatti´s in .450, .470 and .500 N.E. that now are sold by Cabelas?

They sure looked like Sabatti's to me. I had the same thought after reading the thread on NE.
----------------------------------
"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."

My thoughts exactly, and that's probably why there has been no further word from Mr Freeman!

..............

Assumming this is true (and I have zero knowledge if it is or is not) for 9K they are a great rifle but at 5K they are a piece of shit?
This is just to damned funny!

I've bought some wood from Adam and had great dealings with him. You guys stay away from Adams booth because I won't get to Dallas until Saturday and I want the pick of the litter.

Okay, turn on your flame-throwers.

The ONLY subject on this forum, much less this thread, about which I really do know what I'm talking about is wood. I grew up in the architectural millwork business. I honestly believe that there is no mistake concerning the selection, machining, or use of wood that I have not seen. I have made many of them myself.

Now for igniting the flame-throwers. I believe that any economical major-calibre DG (which may be an oxymoron) should have a first-quality laminated stock. The technology is firmly established,well-understood, and it works.

Wonder if anyone would buy such a thing? There is such a thing in this world as tradition (thank God).

quote:

Originally posted by mauser93:
Now for igniting the flame-throwers. I believe that any economical major-calibre DG (which may be an oxymoron) should have a first-quality laminated stock. The technology is firmly established,well-understood, and it works.

so are fiberglass stocks, only problem with both of them is that they are damn ugly, and not worth the aggravation, as they are not better than a well made wood stock.

best

peter

I'm going to take a chance that dumb questions are OK here...I thought the site referenced in the above posts was for luxus guns, not sabbatti. You know, the guns that are "bwana' models or such.

Are these the same thing? If not is there some connection?

Shack, Not dumb at all. Adam's guns are made by Famars, as in Abbiaticco & Salvinelli of Italy. Obviously for $9K, you're not going to get chopper-lump barrels or some of the other niceties one would expect on a $40,000+ A&S Famars DR, but it's a $9,000 rifle.

The rifles being offered by Cabelas are made by Sabatti. I don't know anything about them, or care to really. Sabatti may have made some decent rifles in the past, but not that I'm aware of.

quote:

Originally posted by Shack:
I'm going to take a chance that dumb questions are OK here...I thought the site referenced in the above posts was for luxus guns, not sabbatti. You know, the guns that are "bwana' models or such.

Are these the same thing? If not is there some connection?

Luxus is not a gunmaker. Their rifles are made for them by the trade in Europe. You and Biebs have understandably gotten a little confused about the models they've offered.

Here is the rifle this string was about, which was offered at $8,750:



Compare it to this Sabatti offered on Cabela's site for $5,000:

http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas...sp?hierarchyId=10473

Same rifle, no upgraded wood.

The "Bwana" model they offered that you and Biebs referred to is an entirely different rifle. It's a basic (mono-bloc barrels instead of chopper lump, no ejectors, no intercepting sears, etc) A & S Famars boxlock offered at $19,500:


------------------------------------
"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."

quote:

Yes, no confusion here...I've been following the project for a bit now. 505Ed has the Bwana on order in 500NE and 450/400 NE. I believe at least one will be on display at DSC.

I have not seen the "pedestrian" grade rifle to be offered by Luxus at this point.

It's on their web site, and was the subject of this string.

quote:

Obviously for $9K, you're not going to get chopper-lump barrels or some of the other niceties one would expect on a $40,000+ A&S Famars DR, but it's a $9,000 rifle.

The Famars is $19,500, not $9,000.
-----------------------------------
"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."

I've had a storm in my head for the last 3 or 4 days and not thinking clearly, someone help me out. Some things about the rifles look similar but weren't the "new" rifles Adam were offering have ejectors? Are the forearms different from the Cabelas Sabatti and the one Adam posted? Damn these cold medications, should have just stayed with Crown.

The world is full of self proclaimed gifts to the intelligence of man...just look online.

I have been painting for the Dallas and SCI shows. Believe it or not, i have not been on AR in a great while.

Snowolfe, no one ever seen an email from you. We answer all emails. Our customer service is second to no one.

Here is the rest of the story...Cabelas stepped into our sandpit with their larger buying power. They are now going to offer a lower grade version thereby putting the heel to a nice double rifle with southgate ejectors and intercepting sears. Ours had that and higher grade wood.

Theirs will be $5,000 appearantly, Ours was to be set at $8,750 delivered with an leather case and canvas jacket. Two boxes of ammo...American ammo it was regultaed with. If the wood was a lower quality after it was turned then the gun would cost $7,500. Still the lower grade wood would be nicer than the standard wood to be used on the lower grade guns.

We decided that competing with Cabelas and the lower priced gun was simply not in our business plan at this time.

This was a project we started nearly two years ago and it was one I was excited about. I was confident it could be done, a quality little double rifle in a large caliber for well under $9,000.

In the end, regardless of Cabelas, I achieved my goal of getting the guns built. I wish Cabelas great success with them.

For all that think they know something of the gun industry and how it works...Sabatti builds actions for a number of other gun companies. They have other names. This is true of many gun companies in Italy. Actions get shipped all over the world and turned into guns with different names.
Here is a dirty secrect for you that know so much...
I have seen people make negative comments about one maker only to say how good another maker is and they DO NOT KNOW, the guns are being built in the same factory, by the same workers.
I have seen and heard it multiple times and I will see and hear it again...probably at Dallas and at SCI.

We have one of the prototypes available in 470. It does not have higher grade wood....its one of the first guns before Cabelas jumped in the pool.

After this I see no reason to comment further.

These guns are as good as any costing $10,000 to %16,000.

Best to all, see you in Dallas.

Adam

PS.
The Famars, Abbiatico and Salvinelli guns are ENTIRELY different than the Sabatti/Siaci guns. Famars guns are hand made ONE AT A TIME. They are the highest quality available.

quote:

Snowolfe, no one ever seen an email from you. We answer all emails. Our customer service is second to no one.

[/color]

Never emailed you, On page 2 of this thread on 28 Jul I posted:

"Ok, where do we sign up to order one with all the features mentioned, what is the price, and how long for delivery?

I would most likely order one as long as the name "Hein" isnt mentioned anywhere"

Then on 2 Aug posted the following:
"As I said before, sign me up at that price if you can make it a true lefty. But I would love to see a left hand example before placing an order.
What are your ordering terms and how long from deposit to finished rifle in my hands?"


Sorry you missed the questions as I was very serious but have since ordered a Searcy.

Adam,

So what you are saying is you are going to stand by and let Cabela's kick sand in your face? I thought I seen in an earlier post you were up to a good challenge. Well, isn't this a good challenge? Davey and Goliath? Well shit....go sit in the corner and pout! See what that gets ya! I hate sore losers. As I see it, you are not competing for the same market.....there is a huge difference between an entry level $5000 rifle and one with nice wood, options and a better build for $8000. This really has me pissed because I like to see people challenge the status quo and come out either a winner, or the 600lb gorilla got a hellava good ass woopin. Good luck hugging your security blanket...like a good wimp!

Woody.....pissed in PA

Woody-

Quite a bit of passion on your side of this issue.

quote:

Originally posted by Woodrow S:
Adam,

So what you are saying is you are going to stand by and let Cabela's kick sand in your face? I thought I seen in an earlier post you were up to a good challenge. Well, isn't this a good challenge? Davey and Goliath? Well shit....go sit in the corner and pout! See what that gets ya! I hate sore losers. As I see it, you are not competing for the same market.....there is a huge difference between an entry level $5000 rifle and one with nice wood, options and a better build for $8000. This really has me pissed because I like to see people challenge the status quo and come out either a winner, or the 600lb gorilla got a hellava good ass woopin. Good luck hugging your security blanket...like a good wimp!

Woody.....pissed in PA

There's still plenty of room for you in the industry.
Have you considered taking this project on yourself?
With the kind of wind you've brought to this, your sails would be full as you cruised into battle position!



Cheers
Tinker

quote:

Originally posted by Woodrow S:
Adam,

So what you are saying is you are going to stand by and let Cabela's kick sand in your face? I thought I seen in an earlier post you were up to a good challenge. Well, isn't this a good challenge? Davey and Goliath? Well shit....go sit in the corner and pout! See what that gets ya! I hate sore losers. As I see it, you are not competing for the same market.....there is a huge difference between an entry level $5000 rifle and one with nice wood, options and a better build for $8000. This really has me pissed because I like to see people challenge the status quo and come out either a winner, or the 600lb gorilla got a hellava good ass woopin. Good luck hugging your security blanket...like a good wimp!

Woody.....pissed in PA

Woodrow S, I don't know if you are having a bad day or if you didn't mean for this post to read the way it does but this post makes you look like one of the biggest idiot jerks I've seen in a long time.

How would you like to spend a signifigant portion of you funds to invest in something only to have Walmart come and take over the factory and start pumping out cheaper versions of your dream? It's the classic story of the big guy coming in on the idea of a brilliant small guy and screwing it up. I can't see where kicking people while they are down helps a bit.

I hope that Adam does still get his version produced and sold. With his connections and fantastic wood that he has available his version certainly is the Cadillac vs Cabela's Chevy. I hope that he can sell a bunch of them.

In full disclosure I've never met Adam in person but have talked to him at length on the phone while buying a good bit of wood from him. He's one of the most passionate fun guys I've talked too about building rifles, wood, hunting etc. in a long time. He's just the kind of person you truly want to succeed, not scorn and scold him like you have.

Good luck Adam, don't let em' bring you down. I'll be buying one if I can one of these days......................DJ

I wonder how many advanced orders it would take for Adam to go ahead with the project?

465H&H

Woodrow, I am no different than you in that I enjoy a good story of Goliath getting his ass kicked.
However, as I age I become more adept at picking my battles, the battles I know I can win.
Know being the key word.

Do I think I could win? Yes. Reason...there are many customers who would prefer the gun we were building.
Wisdom and intelligence has taught me that. But at the end of the day I only have so much time, and expending energy and precious time on this project would only take me away from other exciting projects we are working on.
We are not sitting in idle.

Finally, should the guns Cabelas are going to offer become a flop...well I would certainly not regret the decision to not move forward. Though I do not expect them to flop. They are a fine gun for the money. They are as good as one would hope and worth every penny, and they shoot.

Regardless, I enjoy Cabelas and the people I know there are good people.

quote:

Originally posted by Woodrow S:
Adam,

So what you are saying is you are going to stand by and let Cabela's kick sand in your face? I thought I seen in an earlier post you were up to a good challenge. Well, isn't this a good challenge? Davey and Goliath? Well shit....go sit in the corner and pout! See what that gets ya! I hate sore losers. As I see it, you are not competing for the same market.....there is a huge difference between an entry level $5000 rifle and one with nice wood, options and a better build for $8000. This really has me pissed because I like to see people challenge the status quo and come out either a winner, or the 600lb gorilla got a hellava good ass woopin. Good luck hugging your security blanket...like a good wimp!

Woody.....pissed in PA

Knowing and having dealt with Adam, this sort of diatribe is not only unfair, it is inaccurate and insulting. As one of the other posters indicated, if you think you are a better man, rather than resort to baseless ridicule, pick up the gaunlet and plow forward or sit down and shut up.

quote:

Question:
If a double shotgun of moderately high quality (SxS) can be made for say $5,000, and it can, then why can’t a double rifle be made for a close to comparable cost?

AF,
What happen to the 5K rifle?

Mike, I was not the one blabbing what a wonderful deed I was going to pull off for several pages of posts. How he could pull off what nobody else would attempt because they were too busy raking people over the hot coals. Go ahead, read all that he stated he could and would do for many months of posting.........blab, blab and then...........blah. I would bet every damned gun in my safes, all $80,000 worth that Cabela's had zero to do with Adams decision to bow out. As I stated, there is a HUGE difference in what both were/are offering. Like comparing a Honda to a Cadillac. Not in the same class. While I am not a gun company exec or owner, I never ran from some risk. BTW, I have been to MANY Cabela's stores including stopping at one of the largest ones 2-3 times/week for the past 5 years and have NEVER seen one of those $5000 doubles Adam refers to at ANY of the stores. Just who are they selling these too? Who are these clients? Do these rifles even exist. Mike, reread all of Adams kinda bragging posts...then respond with some sense.

Just as I thought, another card-carrying member of the peanut gallery -- as we say in Texas, all hat and no cattle.

Mike, I would expect that type of a reply from a friend of Adam. However, it's weak. Miss the Cattle Buyer 101 session? I'm done. Adam's prior statements stand as HE wrote them.

. . . sticks and stones . . . fact is you wanted to call someone out for what you perceived as them backing down in the face of a challenge. Someone suggests that you take up the challenge since if you are big enough to criticize someone else's performance presumably you think you can do better . . . and what do you do . . . go back to all talk and no action. I think it is pretty clear who is full of hot air here.

Hey Woodrow,
I myself like many of us here on AR have dealt with Adam. He is the best, first rate on all accounts.
He is no bragger. He along with his partners did what no one else could do on other occasions.

One example?
As I understand it from others in this industry they are now one of if not the largest provider of walnut to the European gun trade, possible even the U.S. and this in a few short years
That's strong.

What may be even stronger still is the testament to this mans character. Look at the number of people that come to defend him when one asshole like you makes a juvenile statement and how many of us have stood up for Mr. Freeman? Two, three, four?
You stand alone in the middle of the night probably in your mothers basement by the self delusional erotic glow of your computer screen as the king of your own damn pleasure palace.

Whats obvious to us of intellect is that you have an agenda and are probably in bed with some one that sells double guns.

Go back to your porn, you are not wanted in the company of men.
Your a joke and a sliver of a gentleman.

Piss OFF! The world has too fucking many of you.

Prov 10:10
Whoever winks the eye causes trouble, but a babbling fool will come to ruin.

Prov 10:14
The wise lay up knowledge, but the mouth of a fool brings ruin near.

Prov 12:15
The way of a fool is right in his own eyes, but a wise man listens to advice.


Get the idea Woodrow?...................dj

Perhaps I was a bit harsh, but Adam set himself up for this to an extent and if you don't call what he wrote as some pretty powerful statements as to what he could and would do, in no uncertain terms, reread it. He wrote it.

I have been on his website plenty of times and have no doubt what he is capable of doing along with others, that is where I am questioning his reasons for bowing out due to the Cabelas venture. It just did not make any sense to talk the game plan up and then drop it at once for that reason.

While I will admit I may be wrong on some accounts about Adam, you are Mike are wrong in all accounts about me. Nuff said.

Ron White 1:1

You can't fix Stupid.........


.............DJ

gentlemen please

i would expect this from the political forum, but not here.
I must admit that adams tone in his posts rub's me in the wrong way as well, as i find his statments a bit to absolute, and some down right against what i know to be true in the london trade, be that as it may, i feel for him with this project, as it is never fun to develop something and then lose it to somebody with a bigger wallet.
i still have my doubts about the sabatti, which adam were called on early in his posts, but never replyed to, sabatti has made some great guns but for a higher price in the past, they also have put out a lot of low end garbage, that couldent shoot, because they insist on machine regulating them, i still await a report from someone that shoots these big bores, hopefully from someone that knows something about double rifles.

quote:

Famars guns are hand made ONE AT A TIME. They are the highest quality available.

Adam, this statment is either uninformed or coming from a seller of snakeoil, you deside which.

It might be that i read the tone of the posts from you wrong, if so please help me and others by incerting the winking smily, if im reading it right, stop posting about the london trade as you simply are getting it wrong and i would like it, if we could stop the myths and BS about what we do over here.

best regards

peter

on a brighter note..


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K_kvsNVBYCw

wow sinner that has to be one of the best looking women, i have seen in a long time, allmost cures cabin fever for a short while

best

peter

Isn't she magnificent. I would like a matched pair of those!

as would i, but im not sure that im still young enugh to survive that much fun all at nce

best

peter

Peter-

It has not so much to do with youth, more to do with energy, focus, and hydration!

Sinner -- go get them.
Ping me with an invitation when they arrive.



Cheers
Tinker

Where the hell did she come from?? She i unbelievable!!

Who cares about Sabaatti guns anyway!

quote:

Originally posted by SINNER:
on a brighter note..


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K_kvsNVBYCw

Hi Adam. I would just like to know what your rifles are like compared to a merkel??? I sold my merkel a few years ago and would like to get another double and your prices are at a level that i can reach.

quote:

Originally posted by SINNER:
Isn't she magnificent. I would like a matched pair of those!

Looses points for a saggy bum, though the rest scores well.

One might also question the authenticity of the boobs.

Everything else seems to be in order.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Josh A.:
A couple of years ago I had a builder ask me to do a particular job in his structures for a certain price. I asked him what happened to the last guy, and he said he went broke. I told him the price he wanted was less than it cost me to do the work. It barely covered material and labor and only got about half of the overhead, with zero profit. He said "well I have bunch of them to build." And so I said "so I can lose a whole bunch of money?"

Rifles, double and otherwise, are the same. If you are trying to shoot for that bottom dollar price point you are just going to get an inferior product and the builder is not going to be around long. Just pay for the good stuff the first time, its cheaper in the long run.

Or not,
j[/QUOTE/]

Lose money on every sale, make it up in volume!!
Gotta love it.
One of my favorite Quotes,

"It is unwise to pay too much, but it is unwise to pay too little.

When you pay too much, you lose a little money; that is all.

When you pay too little you sometimes lose everything.

Because the thing you bought was incapable of doing the thing you bought it to do.

The common law of business balance prohibits paying a little and getting a lot.

It cannot be done.

If you deal with the lowest bidder, it is well to add something for the risk you run and if you do that, you will have enough to pay for something better."
— John Ruskin 1819-1900