quote:

Originally posted by RoyB:
. And if the rifle is consistently shooting with two shots in the same hole, the rifle is not regulated properly and should be returned for proper regulation?

You can fine tune the rifle's loads some what also. If they're shooting in 1 hole at 50 yds then they need to be slowed down a touch so they don't cross at 75 or 100 yds.
If they're shooting wide but with right on right and left on left then they need to be speeded up a bit.

quote:

Originally posted by Mike Brooks:

quote:

Originally posted by RoyB:
. And if the rifle is consistently shooting with two shots in the same hole, the rifle is not regulated properly and should be returned for proper regulation?

You can fine tune the rifle's loads some what also. If they're shooting in 1 hole at 50 yds then they need to be slowed down a touch so they don't cross at 75 or 100 yds.
If they're shooting wide but with right on right and left on left then they need to be speeded up a bit.

Well said.

I like to try to achieve the CENTRE of the composite groups
to be the same as the CENTRE of the bores.

Once you have a good gun regulated, if you take your time on
the first 2 shots of the day (ie before all the other vagaries of flinch etc come into play) you can often see 2 perfectly SxS, 1 - 1.5" apart holes.

That is why once all the stuffing around with a new gun has been done 9or if I need to shot a test target for a buyer of one of my guns, to really know how the gun shoots, I wait until another trip to the range to shoot the test target.

I know this as my shooting gets a bit worse with the bigger bores as I shoot more.

quote:

Originally posted by RoyB:

quote:

My 9.3x74 shot well at 50 yards but crossed beyond that. After some fiddling with loads I could not get proper groups at 100 yards much less 200 where I wanted to be able to shoot the rifle out too. They now have it too.

Boxhead,

You have me very confused by this statement....

quote:

My 9.3x74 shot well at 50 yards but crossed beyond that. After some fiddling with loads I could not get proper groups at 100 yards much less 200 where I wanted to be able to shoot the rifle out too. They now have it too.

Do you believe a double rifle can regulate to more than one point in space?
Do you expect a DR to be regulated to 200 yds?

All SXS double rifles MUST cross at some point in space I believe.......

I'm not sure this is what a DR is all about..........

I assume Mac's post cleared things up for you?

Yes , it did...........But I bet there are lots more neophytes that might think a DR is supposed to shoot two bullets into one hole at the regulated distance. I certainly did........now I know better.

Thanks

quote:

Originally posted by RoyB:
Yes , it did...........But I bet there are lots more neophytes that might think a DR is supposed to shoot two bullets into one hole at the regulated distance. I certainly did........now I know better.

Thanks

Roy

And the good thing is, you asked the question and listened.

quote:

Originally posted by RoyB:
OK, so let's sum up, because I'm still confused....

I buy a Sabati in 45-70.....each barrel would be expected to group around 2"-3" at 100 yards with open sights....

Therefore, at 50 yards if I have two shots on paper with a spread of 4" - 6" (2-3" to the left and right of point of aim) I should be pleased that the rifle is properly regulated?

I would suggest, if the above is accurate, folks are returning DRs that are doing exactly what the rifle is supposed to do. And if the rifle is consistently shooting with two shots in the same hole, the rifle is not regulated properly and should be returned for proper regulation?

There is one question you need to ask yourself! That is: If the rifle is shooting 2 or 3 inches on either side of the point of aim at 50 yards which barrel is shooting on the left, and which is shooting on the right? Then ask where is the center of each barrle's individual group? The rifle might be well regulated in the spread you discribe, first off because you have the SHOOTER factor, on the one hand, and if the right barrel is shooting on the right, and the left barrel is shooting on the left, it MAY be regulated properly.

But I still don't think you are getting it on proper regulation. That is not so uncommon, because there are folks who have been hunting elephant for years with double rifles that were not properly regulated, they simmply do not know it!

At 25 yards even an unregulated double is useful and is why some folks who have used double rifles for nothing else but elephant aren't aware that their doubles are not well regulated because they have never attempted to take game out farther that 25 yards. This is also why they think that double rifles are useless beyond 50 yds for anything, when that same person would not say that of an iron sighted single barreled rifle. Single shot single barreled rifle of 50 caliber were used for very long ranged shooting with iron sights before scopes became the ONLY sight worth owning! There is absolutely no reason that a double rifle should be any different. It is just the myth that double rifles are regulated to cross at 50 yards or 100 yards and are useless at longer range! This is simply a silly idea if you use your mind to think about it!

quote:

Originally posted by RoyB:

Therefore, at 50 yards if I have two shots on paper with a spread of 4" - 6" (2-3" to the left and right of point of aim) I should be pleased that the rifle is properly regulated?

I would suggest, if the above is accurate, folks are returning DRs that are doing exactly what the rifle is supposed to do. And if the rifle is consistently shooting with two shots in the same hole, the rifle is not regulated properly and should be returned for proper regulation?

I would not be happy with any double rifle that would only shoot a 6 inch group with both barrels at 50 yards. In my limited experience of only owning four doubles if you can't get the rifle to shoot 2-3 inch groups (one shot from each barrel) or better at 50 yards something is wrong somewhere.

And if it shot both barrels into the same hole it is a simple matter to change the loads around to make it faster or slower to insure they didnt cross.

That implies that you, and apparently everyone else here, can shoot the one barrel into the same hole, over and over again.

Interesting!

quote:

Originally posted by Will:
That implies that you, and apparently everyone else here, can shoot the one barrel into the same hole, over and over again.

Interesting!

No it doesn't. He said if you shoot both barrels into the same hole, then change the loads to make it NOT do that.

While doing load development / working out the right load for a particular DR,
I have had quite a few DR's shoot both barrels into the same hole or at least partially so.

In some ways, when working up loads in 1 or 2 grain increments, it can show you how sensitive that particular DR is - every 2 grains, you can see the holes get closer or farther apart - as opposed to a DR that doesn't worry within a 1-5 grain powder charge. Some DR's seem to be very sensitive.

.

He shoots very well, Will..

Maybe you should practice more?

quote:

Originally posted by Mike Brooks:
He shoots very well, Will..

Maybe you should practice more?

That wouldn't help him.

Some people just don't have it

.

What do you expect from someone with only 1 trigger?

You guys are sick, sick, sick.

It shows the absolute absurdity of so many of these threads.

quote:

Originally posted by Will:
You guys are sick, sick, sick.

It shows the absolute absurdity of so many of these threads.

A bit sensitive today are we ? menopause coming on ?


No will, you just left yourself WIDE OPEN for both Mike's and my response so you should have expected it.

And if you hadn't noticed, we both included at the end of our posts. ie a joke, chill out, your posts are good - as long as they don't mention Single triggers

BTW - Yes, I am a bit sick, been told that by better guys than you.

.

quote:

Originally posted by 500N:

quote:

Originally posted by Will:
You guys are sick, sick, sick.

It shows the absolute absurdity of so many of these threads.

A bit sensitive today are we ? menopause coming on ?


No will, you just left yourself WIDE OPEN for both Mike's and my response so you should have expected it.

And if you hadn't noticed, we both included at the end of our posts. ie a joke, chill out,[[[[[ SOME OF ]]]]]your posts are good - as long as they don't mention Single triggers

BTW - Yes, I am a bit sick, been told that by better guys than you.

.

A slight correction in the above post!

You guys leave Will alone, he's a nice guy, he just likes to needle us to see where the crap hits the wall! I suppose he has been able to shoot well enough to take a lot of game in Africa, that I can only dream about! I guess I'm going to have to buy his last book so I can review it to correct all the carp he likely
printed about double rifles!
................And he is correct in that we are a bunch of Sick sick gun nuts here, but what he failed to mention is he is right here with us!

This much is true!

quote:

Originally posted by MacD37:
...And he is correct in that we are a bunch of Sick sick gun nuts here, but what he failed to mention is he is right here with us!

Cheers
Tinker

BTW....There are 65 Sabatti rifles on display at Cabelas at the present time.

Just thought you'd like to know............

quote:

Originally posted by RoyB:
BTW....There are 65 Sabatti rifles on display at Cabelas at the present time.

Just thought you'd like to know............

It will be interesting to see how many they have in a few weeks.

I reckon all this crap would have slowed sales a bit.

quote:

Originally posted by MacD37:
You guys leave Will alone, he's a nice guy, he just likes to needle us to see where the crap hits the wall!

Here, here!

We need to cut a little slack to the man who was "reared" by John Taylor.....and hunts in sandals....

quote:

Originally posted by Jim Manion:

quote:

Originally posted by MacD37:
You guys leave Will alone, he's a nice guy, he just likes to needle us to see where the crap hits the wall!

Here, here!

We need to cut a little slack to the man who was "reared" by John Taylor.....and hunts in sandals....

The Legend of Will the hunter, sandles, Pith Helmet, Single trigger ...........

Not a pretty sight



(I notice Will has gone very quiet )

Ahh but Will did have that single trigger on a 416 Taylor.

Making him quite wise.



SSR

quote:

Originally posted by Jim Manion:

quote:

Originally posted by MacD37:
You guys leave Will alone, he's a nice guy, he just likes to needle us to see where the crap hits the wall!

Here, here!

We need to cut a little slack to the man who was "reared" by John Taylor.....and hunts in sandals....

Hey Jim where you been Hoss?

Mac,

Been tied up moving up to Colorado. Packing, moving....not my favorite thing.

But, someone has to pick up the slack to deal with single-trigger, double-bashing, sandal-wearing authors and wallet-peddlers...

quote:

Originally posted by Jim Manion:
Mac,

Been tied up moving up to Colorado. Packing, moving....not my favorite thing.

But, someone has to pick up the slack to deal with single-trigger, double-bashing, sandal-wearing authors and wallet-peddlers...

Will will love that post, and I'm sure you will be getting one of his one-liners soon. I'm ordering Will's latest book this week, so I can ragg his butt about his double rifle writings. He can take it though, and come back with one of his one-liners for me as well!

Moving up into the rare air of the mountains , HUH? One good thing there is a lot of good hunting up there, and I miss the mountains myself!

Good luck up there I envy you!