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I have never been able to (and still probably can't) afford a good double. However, after my trips to Africa and watching some charge films as of late...I want one. I just want a PH grade good quality rifle in .45 caliber or bigger (don't want no .600 or nothing). Prefer a common catridge like .470 NE or even .458 WM. How does one go about searching out one these in a good used rifle and what could one expect to pay??? ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | ||
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ledvm, when DRs go over the 9.3x74R (or 375) level, they go up in price. Although Cabella's now offers the Sabatti-built DRs for $4,995-$5,500, I would like to see them get some "miles" on them before making comment. With the economy the way it is, some solid brands are available in the $7,500-$8,500 range, like Merkel, Chapuis, and Verney Carron. A used DR might make sense for your first...there are many lightly used, or unfired, rifles out there now. Your first DR won't be your last, for sure, so just get a solid gun in a caliber you like, and learn the ropes. Good luck!...Biebs | |||
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There are some good options out there right now on this Forum. Some very good buys to be honest. If you can pull it off....this may be a good time to buy. ****************************************************************** R. Lee Ermey: "The deadliest weapon in the world is a Marine and his rifle." ****************************************************************** We're going to be "gifted" with a health care plan we are forced to purchase and fined if we don't, Which purportedly covers at least ten million more people, without adding a single new doctor, but provides for 16,000 new IRS agents, written by a committee whose chairman says he doesn't understand it, passed by a Congress that didn't read it but exempted themselves from it, and signed by a President, with funding administered by a treasury chief who didn't pay his taxes, for which we'll be taxed for four years before any benefits take effect, by a government which has already bankrupted Social Security and Medicare, all to be overseen by a surgeon general who is obese, and financed by a country that's broke!!!!! 'What the hell could possibly go wrong?' | |||
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Are they listed in the classifieds? ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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If I may... I really would suggest a good 9,3x74R by Chapuis to start. Easy to regulate, lots of factory ammunition and brass and bullets available. I bought mine here slightly used. It came with dies, a couple boxes of brass, some bullets and would have run me over $6200 new. It has upgrade wood and engraving, single trigger, and factory scope set up. It also had a 2-7X-33mm Leupold VX-III and the factory rings. Rich DRSS it's in the picture below | |||
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I probably never will shoot factory ammo. I reload for everything. And I want one big enough to shoot an ele in the thick jesse of the Sapi. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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I really want something smaller than .577 and equal to or bigger than .45 cal. Nothing fancy...just solid. Would prefer a .470 NE or a .458 WM. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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Lane, I sent you a PM, though it might not be what you are looking for. Good luck, Paul NRA Lifer; DSC Lifer; SCI member; DRSS; AR member since November 9 2003 Don't Save the best for last, the smile for later or the "Thanks" for tomorow | |||
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You really don't want a double rifle. Once upon a time in 2005 I went on my one and only plains game hunt. Now 5 years later I have been 4 times and cannot get it out of my system. Last year I bought a used Chapuis 9,3 X 74R because I couldn't afford a larger double. Yesterday, I bought a Heym 450 Nitro from Chris and am trying to get it delivered by tomorrow. Elephants anyone? I hunt, not to kill, but in order not to have played golf.... DRSS | |||
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Paul, PM back at you. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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Yes...Will has a K-gun for a fair price IMO. It needs to have a second trigger fitted to make it a DG rifle but it may be a good place to start. ****************************************************************** R. Lee Ermey: "The deadliest weapon in the world is a Marine and his rifle." ****************************************************************** We're going to be "gifted" with a health care plan we are forced to purchase and fined if we don't, Which purportedly covers at least ten million more people, without adding a single new doctor, but provides for 16,000 new IRS agents, written by a committee whose chairman says he doesn't understand it, passed by a Congress that didn't read it but exempted themselves from it, and signed by a President, with funding administered by a treasury chief who didn't pay his taxes, for which we'll be taxed for four years before any benefits take effect, by a government which has already bankrupted Social Security and Medicare, all to be overseen by a surgeon general who is obese, and financed by a country that's broke!!!!! 'What the hell could possibly go wrong?' | |||
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I have already PM'ed Mr. Will and have not heard back from him??? ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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If you can afford to hunt elephants the advice to buy a "starter" 9,3 is right on. Might as well buy it now and get started with it because you will end up buying one in the future anyhow  My biggest fear is when I die my wife will sell my guns for what I told her they cost. | |||
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There is a Searcy 450#2 for sale in the classifieds. | |||
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 Gotta love it!"An individual with experience is never at the mercies of an individual with an argument" | |||
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Why would I want a 9.3 to hunt ele in the jesse. I shoot a .458 bolt gun now. Not really interested in a pop-gun. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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Never Say Never!! I used to say the same thing and now I'm double poor. Got more than I can shoot. Start out with a double you can shoot a lot and have fun with it. I highly suggest a Siace 45-70. The Sabbatti 45-70 may be a good start also. THe 45-70 is the perfect American double caliber and cast bullets shoot great. Sam | |||
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I can understand you only wanting to shell out money for one double especially if you are interested in hunting elephants. But don't discount a 9,3 if you can get two doubles. It is small, light and has a lot of utility. You just might find you like it for hunting everything from buffalo on down. I hunt, not to kill, but in order not to have played golf.... DRSS | |||
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LEDVM, Be patient and do not "settle" for something you may not want. I got the exact same bug as you some years back and finally got a great deal on Heym 88B Safari (470). It was the gun I always wanted. Monitor guns international. First of all you might want to go to Champlins in Enid (not that far north) and check some varieties out. I handled all the sub $20K guns and the Heym fit me the best. The DSC show really provides an opportunity to handle all the varieties as well. BTW Lane; Gig em' class 79 EZ | |||
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people who haven't ever been on AR to learn better have been killing Elephants with the 9,3x74R and the 9,3x62 for over one hundred years now. I think I have the perfect set up for the world with my Searcy .470 NE and the Chapuis 9,3x74R. Everything from Elephant to Duiker. Rich DRSS | |||
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Sir, I have no doubt you can kill an ele with a 9.3 or a .308 for that matter. I am looking for a big stopping rifle for hunting ele in the think bush. I have a .375 H&H and a .458 WM both in pre-64 model 70's that I would not part with. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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Ledvm, A .470 or a .450 NE would be a nice rifle for you but stay away from a .458 WM in a double. There are some that are reliable but I really like a rimmed cartridge in a double. | |||
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Totally agree! There are some "experts" on AR who may disagree, But the cartridge MUST be rimmed / "flanged" in a dangerous game rifle. Take that to the bank!! However, that being said, should you purchase a .458 Win mag. double, no problem. Have it chambered to the great .450 3 1/4" Nitro. If, by chance, it needs to be re-regulated, send it to J.J. to re-regulate (with a load of your choice). If you can afford the gun you can afford the $600.00 + -. Don't sweat the small stuff. Don Deo Vindice, Don Sons of Confederate Veterans Black Horse Camp #780 | |||
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I lusted after one for years and always planned on getting a Valmet 412 in 9.3x74R a por mans double. Then one day I was at our local gun show and a guy had a K-Gun in 470 NE with 200 rounds of ammo and a ton of accessories for $7k. It took about 30 seconds to drop the cash on that. A couple of weeks ago snowwolfe who already posted in this thread had a nice Double Valmet in 30/06 at a vary attractive price. Now I have wo and am getting readyto have 9.3 barrels fitted. If you keep an eye open the deals are out there. DRSS Kreighoff 470 NE Valmet 412 30/06 & 9.3x74R | |||
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.450 3.25", .450 no.2, 500/450 are aweful good places to start. You can find a bare bones pre war English double for 17-22k. An equal in craftsmanship won't be found and you won't lose money on the deal. http://www.westleyrichards.com...product.php?id=26181 http://www.westleyrichards.com...product.php?id=26252 VERY much worth looking at if you don't mind a bare bones double: http://www.champlinarms.com/De...StyleID=3&GunID=1883 A non British "sleeper", but a hell of a nice rifle! http://www.champlinarms.com/De...StyleID=3&GunID=1546 http://www.champlinarms.com/De...StyleID=3&GunID=1841 http://www.gunsinternational.c...cfm?gun_id=100051403 http://www.gunsinternational.c...cfm?gun_id=100102532 Brett DRSS Life Member SCI Life Member NRA Life Member WSF Rhyme of the Sheep Hunter May fordings never be too deep, And alders not too thick; May rock slides never be too steep And ridges not too slick. And may your bullets shoot as swell As Fred Bear's arrow's flew; And may your nose work just as well As Jack O'Connor's too. May winds be never at your tail When stalking down the steep; May bears be never on your trail When packing out your sheep. May the hundred pounds upon you Not make you break or trip; And may the plane in which you flew Await you at the strip. -Seth Peterson | |||
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Definitely some cute guns. My guess is that their guess of weight is optimistic. Some of those old tanks are heavy, really heavy. Whatever floats your boat. ------------------------------- Will Stewart / Once you've been amongst them, there is no such thing as too much gun. --------------------------------------- and, God Bless John Wayne. NRA Benefactor Member, GOA, N.A.G.R. _________________________ "Elephant and Elephant Guns" $99 shipped “Hunting Africa's Dangerous Game" $20 shipped. red.dirt.elephant@gmail.com _________________________ Hoping to wind up where elephant hunters go. | |||
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I'm thinking the quest here is for a rifle to hunt with, at a reasonable (low) price, and to provide a power level equal to or greater than the 458 WM in the bolt rifle. I would think that would dictate a search among available used DRs such as Krieghoff, Merkel, Chapuis, Verney Carron, and, OK Dave Bush, maybe Blaser!!!! | |||
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+1; might add Heym as a option; 470NE ! easily found ammo. Find a gun with the right LOP, probably up to 1" longer than your bolt guns.
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EZ, Yes, for sure, the Heym is a great rifle, but at the upper end of the price spectrum for "standard" factory rifles....although I see Don Soter here on AR has a very nice 470 Heym Safari for under $14K on Guns International. | |||
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What about the cocking mechanism on the Krieghoff that I hear so much about??? Why do some people hate it? ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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You should be able to find a second hand Merkel 470 for between $6000 and $8000 which I consider a good option. | |||
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I believe the system is automatic where as if you reload, you have to push the slide forward again. The safety on my Heym is not automatic. If you reload you are ready to pull the trigger and fire. This may be an asset according to some in a situation when you have to respond quickly. Others think the K gun system is a nice safety feature.
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A few options available on some of the guns not on others. You may want to consider what may be important to you and what is not. 1) Intercepting sears 2) Articulating front trigger 3) cocking indicators 4) ejectors / extractors The K guns and some Heym's have palm swells if that is to your taste. EZ | |||
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Simple Answer: BUY EXACTLY WHAT YOU WANT FIRST..... If I had bought a 9.3mm I'd still be kicking myself. I wanted a Butch Searcy 450-400 double field grade and when he listed it I BOUGHT it! Look at my posted targets if you want to see what a great double can do. I am in the process of selling off 10 guns maybe more and I couldn't be happier in doing it. ALWAYS get exactly what you want and if you don't have the cash in hand sell some stuff or wait. Brad  | |||
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The Krieghoff is not like the Blaser safety system. On a Blaser S2, it is true that you have to "re-cock", or take the gun off safe, after it is reloaded. This is NOT the same with the Krieghoff, although the system looks to be similar. | |||
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That may indeed be what he wants. However those guns are apples. Most of the English doubles are oranges. My point is that some of the oranges aren't that much more expensive than some of the apples and they are indeed two very different kinds of fruit. Don't get me wrong. Both do the job....just very different. Brett DRSS Life Member SCI Life Member NRA Life Member WSF Rhyme of the Sheep Hunter May fordings never be too deep, And alders not too thick; May rock slides never be too steep And ridges not too slick. And may your bullets shoot as swell As Fred Bear's arrow's flew; And may your nose work just as well As Jack O'Connor's too. May winds be never at your tail When stalking down the steep; May bears be never on your trail When packing out your sheep. May the hundred pounds upon you Not make you break or trip; And may the plane in which you flew Await you at the strip. -Seth Peterson | |||
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Agreed Brett! But...even in this buyer's economy...an English double ='s a hunt in Africa. I would love to have a nice old Rigby .450 #2! I just don't beleive it is in my cards. Even though I am making a living...the economy has got me scaled way back!!! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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eezridr, the system on the Blaser is automaticlly de-cocked when the action is opened for any reason, and must be re-cocked every time it is opened. This IS NOT the case with the K-rifle! Once the rifle is cocked, fired, opened, and re-loaded, and closed the rifle is ready to fire just like all well designed double rifles The K-gun recocks it's self after fireing and opening. The only down side is; if you load the rifle, and cock it when you open it to un-load the rifle it remains cocked unless you push the cocking switch forward slightly, and release it to un-cock the rifle. The PROBLEM is if you re-load the rifle later, and forget to de-cock the rifle it is loaded and cocked with no safety if you forget you left it cocked when you un-loaded earlier. The K-gun is a very safe rifle, but requires the owner to learn it's system thoroughly. ....Mac >>>===(x)===> MacD37, ...and DUGABOY1 DRSS Charter member "If I die today, I've had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"~ME 1982 Hands of Old Elmer Keith  | |||
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Well...if anyone knows of one...please let me know...I'll give one a try! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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ledvm, I recently saw a Merkel 500 NE on Gunsinternational for $7,500. Good luck, Paul NRA Lifer; DSC Lifer; SCI member; DRSS; AR member since November 9 2003 Don't Save the best for last, the smile for later or the "Thanks" for tomorow | |||
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