Caliber Recommendation - Lower 48 States
SxS configuration, game list: black bear, mountain lion,
moose, elk, deer, hogs

I'll reload; less common like 9.5x74R wil be considered
as well as those much more common options like 45-70.
Bullets will be CEB so lighter weight than classic British
historic loads. Much prefer straight sides - NO shoulder,
insist on RIMMED design. NO inclination to fire at game
over 50-60 yards. I just rather experience close stalk and
open sights.

I don't believe that you can go wrong with the 375 Flanged or the 45-70. I've got a Sabatti in 45-70 that I've taken mule deer with the last two seasons at 25 an 5 yards.

If you don't want a shoulder on the case you will need to go with the 45-70 or a 450 NE. Good luck on your hunt for a new rifle.

9,3X74R. It's a breeze to reload, components are readily available, guns are more affordable and it has all the punch for everything on your list.

quote:

Originally posted by Dave Bush:
9,3X74R. It's a breeze to reload, components are readily available, guns are more affordable and it has all the punch for everything on your list.

+1

I must add all dependent on the type of rifle you like to have. you can go with the Sabatti or Chapius which I own both in that caliber and both are good guns. the Sabatti will run you about $1000.00 to $1500.00 less than the Chapius and yes there are good shooting muzzle perfect Sabattis out there and they are strong and dependable and worth every penny, also you can go with a Markel in the same caliber.

Now if you want to play around a bit and since you wouldn’t mind hand loading, you can buy yourself a 30-06 Baikal and rechamber it to the 30R Blaser, load with 200gr bullets and go hunting.

Best regards

Malek
Good shooting/hunting and God's best

DR

I highly recommend the 9,3x74R. I have killed more different species of game with the 9,3x74R double than all of my other calibre guns combined.

It is one of the finest hunting calibres on the Planet.

It is the Perfect double rifle for the lower 48, as well as Alaska.

Also I have used mine in Africa for not only plains game, but for cape buff and elephant as well.

Recoil is not much more than a 30/06.

It kills equal to a 375 H&H, IMHO, of course...

DR:
.600 nitro express loaded down a bit and lead bullets.
But, that's just me.
Cheers,
Cal

Either one of my Chapuis UGEX's would be a good choice. One is in 9,3x74R and the other is 30R Blaser.
One of the guys from Alaska has a .338 Win Mag double and that thing is sweet! Say what you want but it performed perfectly for not being a rimmed cartridge.

9.3; it is actually pretty common and hornady loads it;. 30 Blaser is a good round but too rare in the US; no US maker makes it and brass is hard to get. I know, after you have the first 200 you are good to go, but why when 9.3 is so much easier and better. 8x57JRS is also a good round and is very common now that S&B imports it. Just thinking of standard Chapuis offerings. Actually, nothing wrong with 45-70. Not in a Chapuis. If you want a straight case in a readily available rifle, 45-70 is your only option. Custom rifles; anything you want. 405 is good. I could go on all night.

9.3X74 or a 45-70. Either one will get it done w/o problems.

But then again a 450 or 500 NE will do it better!

No one can prove that Cal Pappas is wrong in his argument; let me just assert that here and now!
Thanks for your thoughts men. I must admit being tempted by the 500 NE very lightly loaded,
with my read through of the thread by michael458 & srose. Then that 499 HE by hubel458 starts
to whisper into my ear...

Below is originally by Call Pappas:

"DR:
.600 nitro express loaded down a bit and lead bullets.
But, that's just me.
Cheers,
Cal"

I think it depends on your budget. If an 8.5 lb. Heym 88B in .375 H&H is in your budget, then I'd say you cannot beat that.

Otherwise, I'd say either a Merkel, Chapuis, or heavens forbid Sabbati in 9.3x74.

The Merkel .375 weighs in at 10.5 lbs that that's a lot of weight for a NA gun. However, that's what I own, and I hunt with it a lot. At the end of the day, hiking up and down mountains, it does get heavy. But I really like it on bear when stalk hunting.

Sounds to me like you want a classic .450 BPE or a .500 BPE if it weren't for the CEB stipulation.
Would be just the thing for everything on your list at the expected distances.

9.3x74R end of story. No worries out to about 225 yards. Never look back.

quote:

Originally posted by cal pappas:
DR:
.600 nitro express loaded down a bit and lead bullets.
But, that's just me.
Cheers,
Cal

And me

It's well known that CCMDoc and Cal have a shared
psychiatric condition, not that it's a "disorder", just
a slant so to speak...

I have to vote for the 9.3X74R as well. Easy to get components for and it has a very wide range of applications. Mine is equipped with a detachable scope and with it I've taken the tiny Grysbok at 120+ yards, Warthog at 150 yards, a couple of Kudu, and a male lion at 40 yards or so. Domestically, I've taken whitetail deer, hogs, and black bear with it to date. 450 No. 2 (Tony) above has taken cape buff and elephant with his.

It's just a great chambering and seems especially well suited for North American game from the smallest to the largest.

DR:
Whaaaaaaaaaaat dis dis dis oorrrddder????
Reco co co coil issssntttt thaaaaaaaat baaaaadd.
Ca Ca Ca Calllll

As I said, it's a SLANT. Simply that you both maintain that the
600 NE IS THE CORRECT CALIBER FOR ALL HUNTING. Sometimes
it's full house loads sometimes light loads. I can't say I disagree as
it's a 20 bore at its core.

DR:
Going back to the late 1890s a few folks were playing with the 20-bore brass case at 2 3/4 inches. The .600 originally was a version of that with a larger rim to avoid placement in a 20-bore shotgun. I have some of the original paperwork (copies) in my files if you have not seen it.
Cal

Problem solved; get a 20 ga side by side and shoot slugs in it. To 50 yards you can kill anything. It will be a fraction of the price of a double rifle. You can put sights on it and pretend it is a 600. When I was 9 years old I had (still have) a Fox 410 that I pretended was a 470. It worked fine for the game that was shot with it.

PM coming to you Cal.

Surprised nobody mentioned a 8x57R. I really like mine and ammo isn't really all that hard to find.
The thing about shooting a double rife is that your going to want to reload for it anyway so you can fine tune your regulation.

You must have missed it in my post above; I mentioned that the 8x57 is a great round and that ammo is easy to get now.

Going with a drilling is a great option as mentioned above. I have a 12 / 12 / 8x57JR JP Sauer, and I shoot Brenneke slugs along with the rifle barrel. It performs like a double rifle out to 50 yards, and with the rifle barrel I can reach on out there.

There are some really good buys on nice drillings if you keep your eyes open. JP Sauers are almost always a good way to go, as would be Merkel, Kreighoff,etc.

If for the lower 48, why not go with a classic american round. I can think of no better caliber for your purposes than a 405 win.

405 is a great round; that choice automatically puts you into the custom chambering category since AFAIK no manufacturer makes it in a standard offering. Like they do the 9.3.

quote:

Originally posted by dpcd:
405 is a great round; that choice automatically puts you into the custom chambering category since AFAIK no manufacturer makes it in a standard offering. Like they do the 9.3.

Unfortunately, you are right no major manufacturer produces the 405. However, What about Bradshaw or Clark custom? or could buy it used, there are plenty Belgian and US made 405's available:

http://www.gunsinternational.c...cfm?gun_id=100320450
http://www.gunsinternational.c...cfm?gun_id=100316789
http://www.gunsinternational.c...cfm?gun_id=100314635
http://www.gunsinternational.c...cfm?gun_id=100271548

Light Weight version 30-30
Mid Weight Version 45-70 7x65R 8x57R
Heavier Weight Version 405 Win or 9.3 x 74R

You do not need much more than any of those for the lower 48.

Matt

quote:

Originally posted by Matt Moore:
Light Weight version 30-30
Mid Weight Version 45-70 7x65R 8x57R
Heavier Weight Version 405 Win or 9.3 x 74R

You do not need much more than any of those for the lower 48.

Matt

"Heavier Weight Version 405 Win or 9.3X74R? Have you held a double rifle chambered in 9.3X74R? Mine is a trim, petite, little lightweight. Certainly more fitting of the Mid Weight Version designation than the 45-70 you have listed. Just sayin!

My Heym 88B is 8# 1 oz. and with Zeiss 3-9x42 with QD rings weighs 9# 6 oz. Never thought of it as "heavier weight".

Sorry to confuse everyone. I certainly was not referring to rifle weight. I was thinking about cartridges for different sized animals as the scenario included animals in the lower 48 up to Moose. ALso, since we are talking double rifles here, I am not thinking about hot rodding any of these cartridges.

So, smaller animals = light weight Medium sized animals = medium weight and large animals = heavy weights.

Cheers,

Matt

Is Chapuis still the best and most cost efficient DR in 9,3x74R(or similar)? Last I was looking at them they were about 4k. Anyone competing with them for this type of DR?

Chapuis is a good product at a good price.

I know they are well made and JJ at Champlin arms thinks they are hard to beat.

Matt

My 9.3x74R is a Chapuis and I'm very happy with it. It's a pleasure to shoot and hunt with. Nice to look at as well:

Holy Crap nice blank. Did you choose it? Mind posting your spec on the rifle?

9.3 has become so popular, even with the ammunition makers.
That or the 45-70 and you're done.

Since you said all's done inside 50-60 yards, I'd go with the 45-70 as I have a couple rifles that run that bullet diameter (a .458win and a 450BPE) and I've had great success with the 350gr SNRN Hornady bullets (cheap and very effective)



Best success to you!



Cheers
Tinker

quote:

Originally posted by Akshooter:
Surprised nobody mentioned a 8x57R. I really like mine and ammo isn't really all that hard to find.
The thing about shooting a double rife is that your going to want to reload for it anyway so you can fine tune your regulation.

The 8x57R is also a great choice, especially if someone has a sweet older O/U Merkel like yours, or one of the new Heym Mod 28B's.

.375 H&H flanged but I am biased, one planet, one cartridge, best

A little info on whether this is to be a utility gun or an heirloom piece. Also is your budget $600 for a Baikal 30-06/45-70, 3-4K for a Sabatti/Chapuis or 10K plus for most of the rest. My Baikal 30-06 is a great shooter and will certainly take anything on your list, but it looks like a BEATER and will not give you much joy when you sit around the cabin at night fondling it. On the other hand I don't take either of my "good" doubles out on my snowmobile or 4 wheeler so they don't get as much bad weather use. I look at it kind of like golf, a specific shot requires a specific club. Whatever you choose, make sure that it fits both you and your budget, then enjoy!

Say $10,000 ceiling for this acquisition. I'll
respect it, but darn well USE IT! When, not if,
it gets marked by a hit of some sort, I'll shed
no tear. Of course reasonable care will be used
to avoid undue, more serious damage. The dril-
ling idea has my attention men. Good thoughts
expressed by all!