Hornady's booth at DSC had samples of 450-400 brass which looked mighty fine (also had 450-400 give away pens). They said they would not sell direct as they go through their retailers like Midway. They will be offering 400 gr soft nose with fmj bullets to follow. They expected to ship the brass pretty soon. Soooo, no group buy from Hornady, but looks like product will be out soon. New guy had a sample box of bullets, with packaging et al. Looks like this is a go. Bob