I am considering moving up to a 500 heym. One concern of mine is the increased recoil. Can anyone shed any light on the felt difference in the recoil between these two calibers?

Thanks

The 470 will weigh 10 lbs and the 500 will weigh 11. The additional weight of the 500 negates any significant difference in recoil to me.

Dirk Lawyer has shot his 500 quite a lot and may drop by to let you know what he thinks. He's also shot a 470 extensively.

Jack,

Had a .470 Nitro. Chambers were badly pitted and could not be polished out and the rifle kept in proof. Looked into chamber welding, etc. with no success.

So, sent the .470 to Cliff LaBounty (since retired) and he bored it out to .500 NE. Keith Kearcher did the regulation and I took it to London to be reproofed.

Rifle weighed 11 lbs 4 oz. Had no trouble with it as a .470. Did not like the recoil as a .500 and sold it.

Regards, Tim

I have one of each. In my opinion, when each is loaded with an RL 15 load, the 500 NE seems to have about 10 to maybe 15% more recoil. That said, when you pull the trigger on either caliber, you won't have to ask anyone whether the gun went off..LOL

On this same note, the reason I qualified my statement above is because I have fired some 500 NE rounds loaded with H 4831 and I find the recoil to be noticeably worse than the RL 15. The term unpleasant comes to mind. BTW my rifles weigh 10 lb, 4 oz in the 470, and 11 lb, 2 oz in the 500.

Geronimo

How about on game. For instance, at home, recoil is as Geronamo describes, you don't wonder if the rifle fired. But on game, in Africa, even here on pigs, the recoil is just sufficient to remind you that the rifle fired.

I doubled moy rifle once while shooting an elephant, just enough more recoil to know that something was amiss, but not even as much noted recoils as here at home (- one at a time!)

Is the 500 that much more, on game, that it is still a factor?

From 500 Grains, I'm thinking maybe not.

JPK

As was noted, the weight on the .500 has to be increased by about a pound or it will kick like a battery mule.

One pound doesn't sound like much, but it makes a difference. Unless one was seriously into dangerous game in dense cover, I'd think twice.

Personally...on the same rifle, I can't tell much, if any, difference in a 500 vs 470.

Gary
DRSS
NRA Lifer
SCI
DSC

JPK,

Right. Must say that on game, I notice no recoil, just enough registers to know that the rifle has fired. Only difference detectable between my 500/450 and my .375 bolt, for example, is the latter has more muzzle blast and I have to recall the shot, not having been affected at the instant of firing against game.

Regards, Tim

Properly made and weight, no difference, but leave weight same and you'll not need to ask twice wich you shot in that blindfold test!

All the above comments noted, I do feel, having taken both elephants and buffalo with both, that the 500 NE seems to have small but detectable edge in the "shake up" department with a well placed shot. I have taken 5 or 6 buffalo with the 500 NE, and all either fell straight away or were staggered on receipt of the bullet. The only buffalo charge I have been involved in was stopped with a double tap from the 500 NE. Pretty impressive and very comforting

Jack,
What New Guy noted is true about the weight difference makes the two. If the 500 weighs a pound more than the 470, felt recoil will be the same, so for me the 500's recoil is 10% more than the 470 weight being equal. I had a Searcy 470 that weighed 10.5 lbs and I have a 500 Heym at 10.5 lbs and the two feel the same to me, I believe the Heym fits me better thus felt recoil is the same to me. What powder you use makes a difference also. If you use IMR 4831 the rifle will have more recoil than using R-15, your burning 15-20 more grains of powder. I believe the extra frontal area of the 510 bullet over the 474 is a plus when hunting big critters. Mike Jines has shot a few eles in his hunting experience and he objectively has seen a difference in the reaction of game shot with a 45-47 caliber compared to his 510 caliber 500 N.E.

quote:

Originally posted by dirklawyer:
Jack,
What New Guy noted is true about the weight difference makes the two. If the 500 weighs a pound more than the 470, felt recoil will be the same, so for me the 500's recoil is 10% more than the 470 weight being equal. I had a Searcy 470 that weighed 10.5 lbs and I have a 500 Heym at 10.5 lbs and the two feel the same to me, I believe the Heym fits me better thus felt recoil is the same to me. What powder you use makes a difference also. If you use IMR 4831 the rifle will have more recoil than using R-15, your burning 15-20 more grains of powder. I believe the extra frontal area of the 510 bullet over the 474 is a plus when hunting big critters. Mike Jines has shot a few eles in his hunting experience and he objectively has seen a difference in the reaction of game shot with a 45-47 caliber compared to his 510 caliber 500 N.E.

For long tracking hunts, have you found that extra pound manageable?
I have to admit, 10.5LBS is my cut of point in a hunting rifle.

Thanks everyone. Lots of really good information. After thinking this one over, with much regret I will pass on this screaming good deal http://www.gunsinternational.c...cfm?gun_id=100068954 .

If that sweetheart were chambered in the fours, it would be on its way home by now. I owned a same model (brand X) 500/416 and in 470. The 416 was pleasant to shoot, almost a push. The 470 is a hard slap upside my head. I will definitely mix up some r-15 and see how much it helps.

It is very true while shooting at DG, it was "What recoil?" But when I touch it off at the range, well it barks. The bottom line is that I want a rifle that is both deadly and won't detach my retinas. My threshold just may have been pushed with my current 470. The 500 may just be a little much.

So one of you, please take advantage of this amazing good deal. And please keep me in mind if anyone is willing to part with a similar rifle in a "girlie" caliber

Thanks again!

Jack if you find the 470 almost to much of a thumper then you would not like the 500.

quote:

Originally posted by N E 450 No2:
Jack if you find the 470 almost to much of a thumper then you would not like the 500.

Thanks, I believe you are right. So my search continues...

So, this discussion, or at just me, begs another question:

If the 500 NE is about 10% recoil above the 470 NE, when the weight of guns being proportional to caliber,

How much larger of a step up in recoil is the 577 NE?

415

Recoil is subjective.

I shot a 577 Searcy and a 500 Merkel side by side at the same time, on 2 different occasions. The 500 Merkel "kicked" worse than the 577.

Both kick much more than a 470.

500 Grains 500 NE Hambrusch is a very accurate double. I have shot it a couple of different times. Whether at 10 yards or 25 yards the shots from the right and left bbl always touch.

The rifle is not painful; to shoot, but it does have a lot of "UP and BACK".

I recommend you shoot ANY rifle that is a hard kicker before you buy it.

quote:

Originally posted by ozhunter:
For long tracking hunts, have you found that extra pound manageable?
I have to admit, 10.5LBS is my cut of point in a hunting rifle.

Ditto's ozhunter, my limit for a hunting rifle is 10.5 lbs with a double rifle. For a bolt rifle my limit is 9.5 lbs. I believe the DR is easier to carry on the shoulder.

quote:

Originally posted by N E 450 No2:
Jack if you find the 470 almost to much of a thumper then you would not like the 500.

Yes I agree, but IMO a 470 loaded with 106-108 grains of IMR 4831 + 500 grain bullet and a 500 loaded with 90 grains of R-15 + 570grain bullet to me feel the same, weight of rifles being equal. If I had to load my 10.5 lb 500 with IMR 4831 it would be above my recoil threshold, with the R-15 recoil is manangeable (doesn't hurt you) and I shoot it very well. Powder choice does make a difference, rate of burn and the total grainage come into play with felt recoil.

Just my own personal experience from the two Merkel 500s I have shot-"Damn, Ouch, Are you kidding me, Sh*#! That's worse than the 470 I doubled earlier! Mother*#@($!!"

Now I can shoot a 475#2 Jeffery, 470, 450#2 with no problems. That )**&%#&%)*&^500 just eats me up. That's just me!

Rusty,are you saying you don't like the 500's recoil?

The 500's kick harder, period! Now if someone isn't used to shooting either they probably won't notice much of a difference cause both kick like HELL, to the casual 30-06 shooter!

To me this question is much like the old adage, "if you have to ask you probably can't afford it". If you have NO problems with a 470NE you should easily be able to learn to handle the 500NE.

I own a "k" .470 w/ mercury device in stock about 11#. I consider it a slightly more than mild recoil. I also own a 10# Armeria De Madrid .500. The .500 is simular in what getting kicked in the cheek with a steel toed boot must be like. after about 6-8 shots my gums bleed. But in hunting situations its no big deal unless a firefight insues. If your recoil sensitive try one of those double rifles GarBy owns I forget the brand. It is sweet!! and shoots the same.

Chipolopolo

Steve...it's a 450/400 Demas....and. yes, recoil is a fair amount less than a 470/500 class. Your double is a work of art...but at 10# I'll bet it puts a hurtin' on you.

Gary
DRSS
NRA Lifer
SCI
DSC

Very Very nice, I will consider one for my next DR fix.
Chipolopolo

I had an opportunity to shoot a Chapuis 470 alongside my Merkel 500. The Chapuis was about the same weight as my Merkel at about 10.5 lbs.
The Chapuis used handloads 500gr@2150fps, same MV as my Merkel only with a 570 Woodleigh w/RL 15. We both traded rifles and compared notes after a few shots. While differences in stock configuration and fit made this a very subjective and unscientific test, we both felt the 500 kicked a lot more. The 470, to me, felt brisk but the 500 really wallops you.

The 500 Merkel is a harsh mistress. My practice routine is 4 or 5 "double taps", trying to get 2 shots on target as quickly as possible with good acuracy. 10-12 shots and I am done for the day. My cheek is sore for a couple of days afterwards. I suppose I could look into getting the stock fitted better or a recoil reducer, but I think it's just the nature of the beast.

Head Trauma

Recoil is one thing, but if the stock is banging your face, that can usually be fixed.

Many times the stock can be bent, to adjust the fit to YOU.

I've been thinking about giving JJ at Champlin's a call and seeing what he says about it.

HT

That is exactly who I would call.

He bent a stock for me.

My stock was fit for me by the builder and I too suffer "brain damage" just the nature of the thing I guess

quote:

I had an opportunity to shoot a Chapuis 470 alongside my Merkel 500. The Chapuis was about the same weight as my Merkel at about 10.5 lbs.

I think 10.5 lbs. is a bit light for a 500 NE. If the gun weighed 11- 11.25 lbs. I think the recoil would be much more tolerable.

Geronimo

I agree that 10.5 lbs for a 500NE is a little too light. I talked to JJ today and will be making a road trip to Enid when the weather warms up. I will have him fit the stock and work his magic on it. Hope he can tame the beast.

450/400 DR's are sweet shootin' rifles, whether 3" or 3 1/4" brass. Retreever's 450#2 kicks

distinctly more. 500's clearly more still. 577 is in another catagory again. That's as far as I

have gotten.

imho, in a properly weighted and fitted rifle

the 450 though 475s all kick about the same
the 500 NE kicks a bit more
the 577 NE FEELS like about 2x a 470

If you are shooting a 10.5 470 and feel it kicks to much, and have given yourself a decent chance to train for it, and it still kicks too much, then it is likely you need it fitted for you.

I can shoot an over long rifle all day.. and want to take a beating over shooting a too short big kicker.. the merkal 500 NE comes to mind in the later

quote:

Originally posted by JPK:
How about on game. For instance, at home, recoil is as Geronamo describes, you don't wonder if the rifle fired. But on game, in Africa, even here on pigs, the recoil is just sufficient to remind you that the rifle fired.

I doubled moy rifle once while shooting an elephant, just enough more recoil to know that something was amiss, but not even as much noted recoils as here at home (- one at a time!)

Is the 500 that much more, on game, that it is still a factor?

From 500 Grains, I'm thinking maybe not.

JPK

When you are shooting at game you can withstand almost anything. But the next guy is going to be bemoaning the fact that you haven't practiced enough with the bigger gun to become proficient and then the next guy says that you should just use reduced loads for practice, which of course is not the same.

If it was I, and had all the money to piss away as necessary, I'd have the biggest gun I could shoot without flinching for practice, such as a 470, and have a the bigger gun in an exact duplicate to be used primarily just for hunting, assuming I thought I needed a bigger gun.

And they'd be single trigger Westley Richards, but that is another story.

Garby - There is a real, physical difference between the recoil of a 470 and 500. If you cannot tell the difference in nominal loads for each consider yourself lucky but I doubt that everyone would be so inclined.