I will admit I have what many might say is a bad habit.

After shooting one or two rounds, if I am not under "duress" whether I have my extractor or one of my ejector guns I put the empty brass in my back pocket, then reload the rifle.

If I am "under duress" ie think I need to get reloaded fast, I just let the brass eject, or in the case of the extractor gun, just pull the brass out and drop it to the ground.

I carry extra ammo on the buttstock and on my belt in ammo carriers made by Murray Leather.

I have shot most of my elephants with my extractor gun the 450 No2.

I think one important thing to bring out is how you practise is how you will react under pressure. When you are at the range you need to shoot like you would in the field. Don’t catch your brass and put it in your pocket in a bucket or back in the ammo box. When you are in the thick of it hunting dangerous game mussel memory takes over and you could get hurt taking the extra time to mess with the brass you should be using to stop your dangerous game.
No I have never hunted in Africa but I have seen this happen in a match before. I have also read accounts of people reacting this way in real live gunfights. Looking for the bucket to dump the empties in out of your revolver could cost you not dropping your empty mag on the ground but putting it in your pocket first are examples that come to mind.
The video is a good example the guy isn’t worried where his empties are going.
Bill

quote:

Originally posted by tomo577:
400,
you are most knowledgeable regarding double rifle manufacturing, history, etc.

but what is your first hand experience in elephant or buffalo hunting ? how many times, how many killed,
what countries, pictures please

your opinons regarding ejectors are well taken. but they are just that, your opinions, not fact , as much as you might want them to be.

everyone is entitled to their opinion

and your comment regarding ejector guns being harder to close...... well that rifle might need looking at for repairs but there isn't enough extra effort required to close a proper ejector rifle that it is even noticable.

and it certainly wouldn't be noticable in the heat of action.

well, there's my opinion

TOM there is no need for the post above. A person dosen't have to go to the moon to know it is there! The same goes for knowing how a double rifle works under hunting conditions, with or without ejectors. The rifle works the same way whether the target is a 300 lb boar, or a 16,000 lb elephant, the opperation
of the rifle is the same.

I've seen Mark shoot at fast moveing game, and I can guarintee you, he can make that double rifle sing, with fast reloads, and stay on target. Not just at close range either! I saw him hit a running hog at 150 yds, and 170 yds with both shots from his 450/400NE 3" double. The first shot hit high on the hump above the shoulder, not even slow the hog down, and the second shot right through the shoulders, flipping that hog end over end, and down for the count, and all this at night! I can tell you right now, you don't want to get into a match with him, for money, shooting at moveing targets, even with a re-load in the middle, with your ejectors, against his extractor rifle! The outcome will not be in your favor, I'm sure!

I know you and Mark do not get along, but I think it would be a good idea to simply avoid posting to each other. I'm sure life will be better for the both of you!

mac d 37

mark & i got off to a rocky start but we had a meeting of the minds at the drss shoot ( the second one )

i don't know a more knowledgeable guy on double rifle making or history. and i told him that. i mean it.

but what i am talking about is opinion ( thoughts) versus performance ( fact)

if you haven't been there and done that, well then it is all theoretical, isn't it ?

when one has the first hand experience he can recall exactly how things went and share that info with others.

personally i don't find an ejector double hard to close - do you ??

i have given thought to my comment about wanting ejectors if in a herd of elephant. maybe what would work best is the heym with the feature that allows you to select extract or eject.

well it is all theoretical for me, being disabled, i won't be crawling into a herd of anything !

quote:

Originally posted by tomo577:
mac d 37


personally i don't find an ejector double hard to close - do you ??

No I don't find an ejector double "HARD" to close, but it is harder than an extractor rifle, and one has a tendancy to slamm the rifle shut from muscle memory when under stress.

quote:

i have given thought to my comment about wanting ejectors if in a herd of elephant. maybe what would work best is the heym with the feature that allows you to select extract or eject.

well it is all theoretical for me, being disabled, i won't be crawling into a herd of anything !

I had one of the older 88s with the selector switch, and I loved that feature! I wish they were all made that way!

I think it will most likely be a thing of the past for me as well, but as my signature line says, I've been there, and they can't take that away from me!, Then again I may hit the loto someday, and when I do, I'll be there till I die, trying my best to wear my rifles out!

MAC, where was the ejector selector switch located on the heym ?
was it on the outside of the forearm ?
or did you have to remove the forearm to select ?

thanks, tom

quote:

Originally posted by tomo577:
MAC, where was the ejector selector switch located on the heym ?
was it on the outside of the forearm ?
or did you have to remove the forearm to select ?

thanks, tom

It was in the bottom of the fore-end wood

quote:

Originally posted by MacD37:
Then again I may hit the loto someday, and when I do, I'll be there till I die, trying my best to wear my rifles out!

Me too!

Selective ejectors would be nice, but must be utterly reliable, and still may not be enough. It adds another layer to the human component, the human forgetting which mode, expecting an eject there is none. Makes me think in fact that I would never disable my ejectors, maybe only buy ejector guns etc. It's easy to slip up when things are not constsnt. To my mind, for me.

quote:

I had one of the older 88s with the selector switch, and I loved that feature! I wish they were all made that way!

I still have a .470 model 88 with the selective ejector switch. Wasn't sure I would use the feature when I got the gun. Now I am so happy I got it, I wonder how I managed without. Also glad I got the gun when they cost a hell of a lot less than today.

quote:

Originally posted by Geronomo:

quote:

I had one of the older 88s with the selector switch, and I loved that feature! I wish they were all made that way!

I still have a .470 model 88 with the selective ejector switch. Wasn't sure I would use the feature when I got the gun. Now I am so happy I got it, I wonder how I managed without. Also glad I got the gun when they cost a hell of a lot less than today.

Back when they were retailing for $8500?

quote:

Back when they were retailing for $8500?

A bit more... not much though.

Guns with ejectors bring more money.

I suspect that in time we will see a distinct price difference between used Merkels with and without ejectors that will remain more or less consistant.

Ejectors are faster. Period.

Closing an ejector rifle or shotgun is so little extra effort that its more extra effort to type this sentance than to close an ejector rifle. And the extra effort is only required when the rifle has been fired.

Mac's point about the PING!! of ringing brass is a good one and a real consideration. It can cause trouble in elephant herds. Once, after killing a tuskless the rest of the herd went berserk but they didn't stampede, instead they were looking for us. They roar of the rifle in the close, thick bush didn't give them a clue to where we were, but the PING!! of my ejectors sure did. They started looking in the right direction, closest elephant was no more than seven or eight paces. We immeadiately backed out using the bush as cover and then high tailed it. Could have caused real trouble. That hunt was in the Save Conservancy, and the elephants there are particularly aggressive and nasty.

I use a non-ejector shotgun quite a bit for goose hunting and another one for some duck hunting. I've managed to reload and drop another bird from the flock a couple of times when the wind is right. Still for shotguns or for rifles, I prefer ejectors.

I think Showbart has a good plan for a fellow new to double guns. Hunt with a double shotgun, with two triggers and ejectors or extractors and you'll become very familiar with you guns' operation, both the shotgun and, because it is similar, the rifle. After plenty of time, it won't cause trouble switching back and forth from ejectors or extractors, but starting out with just one system is good sense.

JPK

JPK

That is why us "real" elephant hunters use only extractor doubles, no "ping".


Sorry, could not resist.


But you have seen the results of the "Ping".

John Taylor, and I rest our case.

What can I say? Taylor is right, as usual.

But if you want to shoot some free charging elephants and more than one out of an agry herd the ejectors can give you that opportunity!!

This group in the Save is the only one that reacted to the PING!!, btw. In the Save, we were tracked by a herd once, which followed our scent trail for a good half mile and only stopped when they came to the edge of the bush while we "took cover" in the center of a large dry pan in case they kept coming and we needed to start shooting. We were tracked by a bull there too, he kept after us for a quarter mile, he came when he saw us from a couple hundered yards. Two shots over his head and he turned and walked away. It was in the Save that I stopped the charging cow too. Nasty eles there. Dan McCarthy has had to shoot a charging cow there as well.

JPK

I hunted the SAVE on my last 2 Safaris.

I will agree that the elephants there are very "cheeky".

We had a large herd that the PH called the psycotic 60.

We had many a "false" charge.

It was a lot of fun.

Nearly had the double "trunk slapped" out of my hands a few times.

Nothing sounds "sweeter" to me than the sound of angry elephants trumpting.
Having them run up with flared ears, "hollering" the whole way, stop, and kick sand on you, give you the "eye", then turn and depart.... Priceless.

The big loud show stuff is fun. I think the sound track for Jurrassic Park came right out of the Save Conservancy.

BTW, both for real charges that I have experienced were totally quiet, no trumpetting, no noise of any kind and ears back on one, out on the other.

JPK

JPK

Funny that you would mention Jurrassic Park.

I told somebody the other day that Jurrassic Park would probably the only place more fun to hunt than the SAVE.

Especially if they would "make" some Mastadons.