Gents...I am toying with an idea...I have a pre-war double with 2 barrel sets, one in .475NE and one in .280 Flanged NE.

My eyesight is now such that I think the .475 set is for elephant, express sights and very short ranges..and I want to keep this barrel set all original..ie no scope.

I have a bolt rifle in .375H&H but what I want is a scoped double to use on buff and perhaps lion..

My plan is to build a medium calibre set that is regulated with a scope in a controlled claw mount.

But what round to use..??

I dont want a weaker round than .375H&H so the .375 Flanged is ruled out..

Soo I guess its between .450/400 3" and .450/400 3 1/4..

Is the latter a tad more powerful or is that purely academical..?

Wich one would you choose...and why..?

Andre,

450/400 3 inch for sure.

have sent you an email on the VC 450 !

Morten

Andre:
I have owned a .475 No. 2 and it is my favorite caliber for ele but own and have owned many 450-400 3 1/4's. However, as to the 3" or 3 1/4 it is a better option to look at the 3" for availability of ammunition and components. No difference between the two as to power factor. In addition, would be a better fit on the .475 frame for action-to-caliber barrel profile than a smaller caliber. Just my 2 cents.

Dutch

.375 vc (verney Carron)?
.375 weatherby ballistics...

The .450-400 is a good one rifle caliber for all game. IF one is bringing a larger bore, and wants a medium bore, I would suggest anything in the .350 Rigby, .360no2, etc., category.
Cal

500/416?

465H&H

The .360 No2 is interesting...but very oddball and weaker than .375 Flanged..

As you and others have said, the 450/400 is a good round and the 3" version is readily available as both components and factory loaded ammunition. All I can add is that you should reconsider the .375 H&H FL Mag. It isn't really very much behind the rimless version and I think a pair of barrels in .375 and .475 would give you more versatility than a pair in .411 and .475.

You want to use the new barrels with a scope. Wouldn't the .375 be better suited to use with a scope than a 450/400? This is just my guess considering weight, velocity, and recoil. However, my experience with double rifles is limited so I must defer to any contrary opinions by those who are double rifle experts.

Grenadier....I must admit that I am torn between .375 Flanged and .450/400 3" at the moment...both are very good...

I am having a 450-400 Nitro Express 3 1/4" built. If it was good enough for Jim Corbett hunting Tiger and Leopard, both species confirmed maneaters...

Interesting...may I ask why you went for the 3 1/4 instead of the 3"..?

IMHO the .375 Flanged is the way to go. The H&H vs flanged difference in velocity is negligible in the real world. The ballistic coefficient of this bullet is beautiful. It will kill everything and is better flat shooting than the 450/400.

Pondoro, do you mean that you want an extra set of barrels for you 475?

How handy (weight/balance) are the 280 barrels on your 475 action?

If you are adding another set of barrels and like the lighter (relative) weight, maybe the 450/400 is better than the 375 Flanged Mag.

I have a pre-war 500/450 3 1/4" Mag with extra set of 375 Flanged Mag barrels (added in the 1950's as far as I can ascertain). They are very handy but with scope weight is lot more than a dedicated 375 double.

Cheers, Chris

quote:

Originally posted by Pondoro:
Interesting...may I ask why you went for the 3 1/4 instead of the 3"..?

100% agree!

Idaho, I believe Jim's rifle was a 450-400 3 inch Jeffrey. I applaud your decision to use the 3 1/4 as it is my favorite as well.

DoubleDon, I can't answer for Idaho but my first double was a 3 1/4 and through the years had purchased about 6 of them (currently looking at a Purdey hammer BPE 3 1/4) and love them as they were the step child of doubles and cost less due to unavailability of ammo. I was fortunate to have a case of original Kynoch ammo, Kynoch unprimed brass, original Kynoch .411 projectiles and Berdan primers when I bought my first one. Love the cartridge.

Dutch

quote:

Originally posted by Norsk:
.375 vc (verney Carron)?
.375 weatherby ballistics...

Certainly not what I would consider a good Double option.
375F on the other hand....

Why not .375 VC?

Flanged, made for doble rifles. Like a smaller 500/416. It has .375 (not .378) weatherby ballistics. And moderate pressure. Sounds just right to me since Pondoro was asking for "not less powerful than .375 h&h...

Ken (kebco) has a lot of positive tings to say about it!

I just would not want high velocity's out of a double rifle. Simply not the tool for that purpose "IMO".

OK

Rockdoc/Chris, the rifle becomes to heavy and bulky with the .280 barrels, the action is really to large to make this a good option..

Your comments about weight versus handiness are exactely my thought....I am afraid .375 barrels may be a pitfall due to less handiness....I suspect 450/.400 to be a better choice, at least on this rifle..

450/400 3 inch. The 3/4 version is OK. However life is too short to hunt with an ugly round! With apologies to Dutch44.
The 3 1/4 was a black powder cartridge converted to Cordite. The rim is thinner. The 3 inch version aka 400 Jeffery was always a Nitro load. Reloading the 3inch is a bit easier than the longer 3 1/4. Actually the 3 inch produces less pressure than the 3 1/4.

Put a FastFire III on it and you are set to go.

After all these years (20) I still enjoy shooting my 450/400 3 inch. Small enough to hunt damn near anything, and big enough to handle what pops up out of the long grass.

The 450/400 3inch has about the same energy as a 300 win mag.I don't see what would be the purpose of getting one in a double aside from just to hunt with a double.The 500/416 looks like an interesting round.

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:
The 450/400 3inch has about the same energy as a 300 win mag.I don't see what would be the purpose of getting one in a double aside from just to hunt with a double.

because it shoots a heavier bullet and makes a bigger hole....

quote:

Originally posted by Jan Dumon:

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:
The 450/400 3inch has about the same energy as a 300 win mag.I don't see what would be the purpose of getting one in a double aside from just to hunt with a double.

because it shoots a heavier bullet and makes a bigger hole....

???
I like to hunt in Zim where there are elephants and with a rifle that can stop a charge.I wonder how accurate the 500/416 is at 100yds?

I have used the 375R V-C on about 20 buffalo, 3 elephants & 3 bears. It smoked everything I shot with a 300gr bullet at 2800fps.

The 404 & 450-400 has been taking the biggest game for 100 yrs with a 400gr bullet at 2150fps. I have only shot 5 buffalo with the 450-400 but would have no problem using it in Zim or anywhere else.

quote:

I like to hunt in Zim where there are elephants and with a rifle that can stop a charge.I wonder how accurate the 500/416 is at 100yds?

...you're stopping charges at 100 yards?!?

No,I just wonder how accurate it is at 100yds-nothing to do with ele.

What about the 9.3x74R loaded with a 300 plus grain bullet?

Kind regards,

Carpediem

A GERMAN round in an old british double...??!

You gotta be kidding me...

Joking aside....it IS an option....and the 500/.416 is also a viable option...

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:

quote:

Originally posted by Jan Dumon:

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:
The 450/400 3inch has about the same energy as a 300 win mag.I don't see what would be the purpose of getting one in a double aside from just to hunt with a double.

because it shoots a heavier bullet and makes a bigger hole....

???
I like to hunt in Zim where there are elephants and with a rifle that can stop a charge.I wonder how accurate the 500/416 is at 100yds?

A 375 ultra mag creates more energy than a 500/416. Why would one then consider the 500/416 ? It would be really accurate at a 100 yards....

Pondoro , I think the 450/400 3 inch. It Makes sense. The 450/400 is an absolute pleasure to shoot.

I have a Westley 470 with 375 barrels, it covers the gambit and they both handle well. The 450/400 is too close to the 475

Thank you, Podoro. My sentiments exactly.

No offense taken, Rusty. Someone has to love the "Jo Jo the Dogface Queens"! (Just like Bieb's and his Blasers!) I guess I was nominated and elected.

Dutch

quote:

Originally posted by Pondoro:
A GERMAN round in an old british double...??!

You gotta be kidding me...

Joking aside....it IS an option....and the 500/.416 is also a viable option...

Pondoro, the first double rifle I ever bought was a Holland & Holland chambered for 9.3X74R Evidently made for someone in Germany. It is quite apparent that H&H didn't think a German cartridge was beneath them to build!

The last time I looked, the Holland & Holland rifles were made in England and the 9.3X74R was a German chambering! The 500-416 is also German.

..................................................................

quote:

Originally posted by Jan Dumon:

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:

quote:

Originally posted by Jan Dumon:

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:
The 450/400 3inch has about the same energy as a 300 win mag.I don't see what would be the purpose of getting one in a double aside from just to hunt with a double.

because it shoots a heavier bullet and makes a bigger hole....

???
I like to hunt in Zim where there are elephants and with a rifle that can stop a charge.I wonder how accurate the 500/416 is at 100yds?

A 375 ultra mag creates more energy than a 500/416. Why would one then consider the 500/416 ? It would be really accurate at a 100 yards....

The 375 ultra is not a DR chambering.It could be higher pressure than the 500/416 too.The bullet is too small for my liking also.The 500/416 could stop a charging ele and also make an accurate double.

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:
The 375 ultra is not a DR chambering.It could be higher pressure than the 500/416 too.The bullet is too small for my liking also.The 500/416 could stop a charging ele and make an accurate double.

Shootaway, and others cartridges only produce speed, and flatness od trajectory. Accuracy is produced by the rifle's quality of the barrel it's self, and in a double rifle combined with quality of regulation. Any cartridge in an inferior barrel will not be accurate regardless of speed, or flatness of trajectory.

Also if you are looking for a MEDIUM cartridge then you need to stop at .375 because that is top of the medium calibers. The 450-400 is not a medium because big bore begins at .400 cal and the 450=400 is the beginning of the big bores.
..................................................................... ....

A 45/70 can't be a big bore even with a large bore diameter.I consider a big bore in terms of energy and bullet diameter.This is a confusing thread to start off with because the poster said that he wanted a round more powerful than a 375 which is already a big bore,IMO.The 450/400 is less powerful than the 375 so if he wants something more powerfull than I would think a 500/416 is a good choice.

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:

quote:

Originally posted by Jan Dumon:

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:

quote:

Originally posted by Jan Dumon:

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:
The 450/400 3inch has about the same energy as a 300 win mag.I don't see what would be the purpose of getting one in a double aside from just to hunt with a double.

because it shoots a heavier bullet and makes a bigger hole....

???
I like to hunt in Zim where there are elephants and with a rifle that can stop a charge.I wonder how accurate the 500/416 is at 100yds?

A 375 ultra mag creates more energy than a 500/416. Why would one then consider the 500/416 ? It would be really accurate at a 100 yards....

The 375 ultra is not a DR chambering.It could be higher pressure than the 500/416 too.The bullet is too small for my liking also.The 500/416 could stop a charging ele and also make an accurate double.

I was being sarcastic when quoting the 375 ultra mag . Energy means nothing on DG when you are comparing a 300 win mag and a 450/400 as you did in a previous post.The 450/400 will outperform the 300 win mag .

Maybe yes maybe no but the energy tables don't lie! I am not going to be near elephants with a 450/400.

Shootaway....a lot of elephants have been shot with the 450/.400.....that said I also would prefer a larger calibre on ele..

I think however that a scoped barrel set in 450/.400 on a double should be the right medicine for buffalo.