and will my Rock Chucker press work for loading the 500NE? Do the RCBS dies make a good crimp?

105 grains of IMR 4831.
No filler needed.
LRM primer.
All of my RCBS dies make a good crimp.
All of my dies are RCBS except 8- and 4-bore.
Don't know about the Rock Chucker as I have the Ammomaster.
Cal

101.5grs H380 with the Barnes Banded Solid 570gr.
102.0grs IMR4007SSC with the Barnes TSX 570gr.
93.5grs RL-15 with either of the two CEB bullets; 570gr BBW#13 or the 535gr Non-Con.

All with Fed. 215 primers and A-Square brass. Although these loads regulate very well, they are MAX loads so please use proper load development procedures working up to them (ie. drop back 10% and work up in 1 gr increments checking for pressure [not likely to see in a double rifle] or more importantly, velocity in a double gun). I am getting approximately 2,150fps in 24" barrels with the CEBs and about 100fps less than that with the Barnes bullets.

George, when it comes to a double rifle, you are looking for the load that regulates best in your rifle with velocity being secondary.

My dies are RCBS and they make a fine crimp. However, with the straight wall, you'll want to seat the bullet and crimp in two separate steps. You'll likely crush the case wall if you attempt to do both at the same time. It adds a step but is worth the effort.

Yes, the Rock Chucker will work very well with the 500NE. It gives you plenty of room and leverage. It also works well with the 577NE. It's a good press that should handle most anything you can throw at it until you start loading the 50 BMG.

While the rock chucker will work. The RCBS 50 BMG press gives you lots of added height and space for the extra length of some big NE loads. My rock chucker was just to short to be comfortable to work with loading .470's so I went with the taller .50 BMG press.

I also had Lee make me a custom factory crimp die for my .470. It works GREAT. However it has the larger body diameter so in my big press I have to unscrew the standard die insert and screw in to crimping die directly into the insert threads.

George,

A .20 GA reloading block works great for any of the NE rounds for reloading. The bases fit just right and the shells will stand up for you for adding powder ETC.

George:

I haven't had my 500 NE long enough to really wring it out. However, the first load that I tried was from Grame Wright's book Shooting The British Double Rifle, 3rd edition. It was 94 grains of Reloder 15, Hornady case, Federal 215 mag primer and a 570 Woodleigh. It seemed to kill milk jugs full of water just fine.

As a rule, I generally don't crimp most of my double rifle cartridges although I did just buy a Lee Factory Crimp die for my 9,3X74R. If you choose to crimp, be careful with a roll crimp on your press. It can make you rifle difficult to close. Todd had the right idea. If you feel you must crimp, call Lee and get a factory crimp die. It will work much better. Since they have already done one for Todd, they probably already have the correct specs.

If you want a little tougher bullet, Swift now has a 570 grain A-Frame for the 500.

Dave,

I don't use a Lee Factory Crimp die. I use my standard RCBS dies to crimp. I just seat the bullets first, then back the seater off to where it no longer makes contact with the bullet, then screw the die in for crimping. Two steps with the same RCBS die.

Have you looked at the 500 nitro new exploration thread? Michael458 and myself did a lot of 500 nitro data with pressure tests.

Some valuable info thanks to all.

quote:

As a rule, I generally don't crimp most of my double rifle cartridges

Dave,

In a heavy recoiling double you are looking for trouble if you don't crimp. The recoil force can be enough to unseat your bullet and engrave the nose slightly into your rifling in your unfired barrel. This can cause some problems.

There is a reason all of the factory loaded double ammo available has a heavy crimp. If you have any questions about why you should always crimp double rifle ammo talk to Butch Searcy.

quote:

Originally posted by surestrike:

quote:

As a rule, I generally don't crimp most of my double rifle cartridges

Dave,

In a heavy recoiling double you are looking for trouble if you don't crimp. The recoil force can be enough to unseat your bullet and engrave the nose slightly into your rifling in your unfired barrel. This can cause some problems.

There is a reason all of the factory loaded double ammo available has a heavy crimp. If you have any questions about why you should always crimp double rifle ammo talk to Butch Searcy.

100% spot on. I always crimp heavily recoiling rounds such as the 500NE and 577NE. Actually, I crimp all of my cartridges except for my 300H&H which is a Ruger No.1 single shot. Any cartridge that is likely to ride along in another barrel or magazine while the gun is under heavy recoil, should be crimped, IMO. YMMV!

The load I am currently using is 98 grains of RL15, a Federal 215M primer and a 570 grain North Fork FPS. I do not use a filler as the North Fork actually is long enough to compress the powder. I am getting around 2075 fps in a 24" rifle and 2120 fps in a 26" barrel rifle.

I crimp. I take the seating die and initially set it up to seat and crimp in the same operation, that is where I set the locking ring. When I reload, I use a spacer that fits between the locking ring and the top of die. The spacer is probably 1/5" to 1/4". I seat the bullet with the spacer inserted. I then remove the spacer and back off the stem on the seating die approximately 6 turns, then crimp. Does an excellent job and I have never had any problem with the crimping bulging the neck and causing problems with the case chambering. Sounds more complicated than it is, very simple once everything is set up.

Mike,

Do you have a reloading manual reference for the 98grs of RL-15? The Barnes #4 maxes at 93.5 but it's the only manual I've referenced for RL-15. Thanks.

Manuals are for sissys . . . just kidding. Let me check.

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
Manuals are for sissys . . . just kidding. Let me check.

Load em up and let er buck, hey?

Todd, Graeme Wright lists a load of 95 grains. If you use the 1.19 x Cordite conversion formula you get a little over 95 grains (80 x 1.19). With RL15 you can get a pretty significant variation lot to lot in velocities.

Hey, Fellas:
I'm surprised I was the only poster who suggested 4831. Perhaps I thought it was more popular than it is but it is all I've shot in my nitro rifles since the 1990s, velocity is quite consistent, and it fills the case to the base of the bullet which is a plus in my book. In the bigger calibers, .450 to .600, it seems to recoil more but I can live with it.
Maybe I should try RL-15 to keep up with the Jones'.
Cheers gents,
Cal

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
Todd, Graeme Wright lists a load of 95 grains. If you use the 1.19 x Cordite conversion formula you get a little over 95 grains (80 x 1.19). With RL15 you can get a pretty significant variation lot to lot in velocities.

Thanks Mike. Believe it or not, I don't have Graeme's book yet. I'll have to see about getting a copy.

I trust Vit and Hogdon extreme powders more than the others.I do not want any surprises.Accurate arms seems OK too.

on the subject of crimping, i have a load that regulates well for me, throwing a 570 grain Woodleigh flat at about 2070fps out of my Merkel. This is without a crimp.
With that in mind, I was wondering how much should I step back in powder if placing a crimp?

Hey Shootaway, not meaning to hijack the thread.

Thanks in advance
Stu

None whatsoever.

I agree with Jorge, I do not adjust the powder load based on whether I crimp or do not crimp.

No powder adjustment for crimping.

Correct, no powder adjustment for crimping.

Just a note for lazy reloaders like me. The reason I spend the bucks on a custom factory crimp die from lee is that once I set my seating die I never have to touch it again unless I am changing bullet type/shape, which I don't do after a I find the perfect regulation load/bullet (See exhibit A. above entitled "lazy reloader."). All I have to do after seating is unscrew the seating die, screw in the crimping die and go to town with a very consistent crimp of which I can control the depth by simply setting the die, so it to stays set all the time too. IMHO it give a much more positive and solid crimp that a roll crimp from a seating die + it simply removes any case crush issues than you can get into with a seating die.

Just a thought for you lazy guys, like me, out there in the reloading world.

quote:

Originally posted by cal pappas:
105 grains of IMR 4831.
No filler needed.
LRM primer.
All of my RCBS dies make a good crimp.
All of my dies are RCBS except 8- and 4-bore.
Don't know about the Rock Chucker as I have the Ammomaster.
Cal

Call,how did you come about this load?
Is it superior to others you have tried?
I guess you have tried many others.

Shootaway,

Butch will also advise you to use this load. In his .470's he regulates with 106Grs of IMR 4831 behind a 500 gr WLSP.

IMR 4831 is a very good, stable, bulky filler powder for NE rounds.

Thanks surestrike that is good to know!

My V-C .500 regulates with 97 gr. RL15 and BBW #13 solids or non cons. No filler required. MJ is correct about lot to lot variation with the RL15. Todd, Graeme Wright's book is a must own for DR guys.

quote:

Originally posted by DoubleDon:
Todd, Graeme Wright's book is a must own for DR guys.

I know, I know. As Surestrike would say, I've been a lazy double shooter on this one. Just haven't gotten around to it yet.

quote:

Originally posted by surestrike:
Shootaway,

Butch will also advise you to use this load. In his .470's he regulates with 106Grs of IMR 4831 behind a 500 gr WLSP.

IMR 4831 is a very good, stable, bulky filler powder for NE rounds.

Surestrike,
Isn't the 106 gr of IMR4831 the regulation load for his .470"s? I think he told me that the regulation load for the .500 Nitro was 110 gr of IMR4831.
I'll call to verify but am pretty sure.
Rick
Just got off the phone with Searcy and his regulation load for the .500 Nitro 3" is 110 gr of IMR4831 with a 570 grain Woodleigh. His regulation load for the .500 Nitro 3 1/4" is 115 gr of IMR4831 with the 570 gr Woodleigh.
Surestrike, forgive me, I'm still learning how to read. Since the thread was on .500 Nitro, I took for granted that you were talking about it and not the .470 Sorry sir.

I use 97 grains RL-15 and 105 grains of IMR 4350 in my 500s with a 570 grain bullet. Not at the same time!

quote:

Surestrike, forgive me, I'm still learning how to read. Since the thread was on .500 Nitro, I took for granted that you were talking about it and not the .470 Sorry sir.

Pagosa,

I should have clarified by saying Butch regulates all his rifles with IMR 4831. I know it's 106 in the .470 but wasn't sure what it was in the .500. thanks for providing that information.

quote:

Call,how did you come about this load?
Is it superior to others you have tried?
I guess you have tried many others.

Shootaway: A simple and logical method: The cordite charge of the .500 is the same as smaller calibers with large cases. I just substituted what I use(d) in the smaller calibers for the .500 in keeping with the IMR 4831 that has treated me so good over the years. I upped and lowered the charge to check point of impact and 105 was what worked best for me. But in all honesty a few grains does not make a difference in how I shoot a double due to shooter error--although it may off a bench--but not to off hand.
Cheers,
Cal

Hey Cal and other 500NE shooters, I was reading an article on African Hunter (Ithink by Ant)on rifles/calibers where he states the 500 lacks the penetration compared to 45 and lesser calibers. Has this been your eperience as well? it seems from the reports here and especially with bullets like the CEB that is not the case. jorge

I have gotten no complaints regarding penetration from the eleven elephants I have used a .500 on, but come to think of it, the first two elephants that I used a .458 on did not complain about penetration either. I think with modern powders and particularly with the flat meplat bullets, penetration is not going to be an issue on a .500. Also, if there was a concern about penetration, why would so many PHs be using .500's?

HEy, don't shoot the messenger. I'm just relaying what a very experienced PH/writer wrote.

Did not intend my response to come across as having an edge, not the intention, sorry.

No prob, I was just picking at ya

I had excellent penetration on my tuskless last year using woodleigh RNS 570's, one a through and through brain shot the others through the body, we didn't recover any.

As to loading, I found my rock chukker press not quite long enough when seating the projectiles,
so went to an ammomaster and never looked back!
Also use the RCBS die and have it set to seat and crimp in one go( thanks RIgby 350) and so far no issues doing it this way with hornady brass.

Cheers
Nick

Nick and Surestrike,

Can you guys post a picture showing how your RockChucker press is to short for the NE cartridges? I'm wondering if my press is different from yours since I moved up from the old "Reloader Special" press to the RockChucker specifically for the 500NE. I'm away from home for the next couple of days but I'll take a picture of a loaded cartridge on the press when I get back.

IMO, as long as the loaded cartridge clears the die by pulling it straight out from the press, without needing to angle the cartridge in any way, that would constitute plenty of room. My RockChucker handles the 577NE without issue as well. Really wondering if we are talking about the same sized RCBS press here. What is the height of the opening on your presses? Maybe measure from the top of the ram without the shell holder installed to the top of the "O" or bottom of the threads in the die opening.

Cheers.

quote:

Originally posted by nickh:
I had excellent penetration on my tuskless last year using woodleigh RNS 570's, one a through and through brain shot the others through the body, we didn't recover any.

As to loading, I found my rock chukker press not quite long enough when seating the projectiles,
so went to an ammomaster and never looked back!
Also use the RCBS die and have it set to seat and crimp in one go( thanks RIgby 350) and so far no issues doing it this way with hornady brass.

Cheers
Nick

Thanks Nick,nice meeting you at SCI.It is good to know the Woodleighs performed well-incredible penetration!