I have all the components in place. Using the cordite to smokeless conversion of 1.19X70 (cordite charge), I come up with 83.3gr I did find this:
LoadID 5307
Bullet Hornady DGX
Bullet Weight 480 grs
Powder RL 15
Powder Weight 81 grs
Primer CCI 250
Brass Make Hornady
MV: 2120


I'm planning to use RL-15 and F215M primers. Some of you suggested I use a filler as well using 1gr of dacron? I'm also going to start off with Hornady DGX 480gr as that is what the rifle is regulated to.

The Hornady factory loads sound like they have no filler. Is dacron a specific filler or can I use any type of poly based pillow stuffing?

Any help sure would be appreciated gents. jorge

Jorge

For the straight case .450-3 1/4" use 1/2" foam backer rod.

Purchase this at Lowe's or Home Depot and cut to length.

BTW, generally, 85 - 87 gr. RL 15 has worked best for me with mine with 480 gr. Woodleigh's.

Why not avoid the fillers and use IMR 4831 as Searcy recommends.

quote:

Originally posted by Snowwolfe:
Why not avoid the fillers and use IMR 4831 as Searcy recommends.

+ 1

Agree totally (as long as that gun shoots the load accurately).

.

Why does 4831 not require a filler? Do you guys think that is the powder Hornady uses?

I don't know why it doesnt require a filler but it is slower than RL 15 so it should take up more space in the case.
Reguardless, if Searcy says it is the powder to use in the rifles he makes it is good enough for me.
No information as to what Hornady is using.

IMR 4831 is cheap, easy to find, accurate, doesnt require a filler and recommended for 480-500 grain bullets.

It fills up more of the case so filler isn't needed. I suspect that Hornady does use a very similar grade of 4831. I gave you some loads for it already.Try it you'll like it.

quote:

Originally posted by Mike Brooks:
It fills up more of the case so filler isn't needed.

+ 1

.

Jorge The Horney factory loads are 95.5-96.0 H4831 for mv of 2120. I have used 4 or 5 different powders and found H4831 the most accurate with several make bullets in my Heym 450 3 1/4.

Thanks! that is what I wanted to hear, the factory equivalent load for the factory stuff. Yours is spot on to what I clocked them, right at 2120. jorge

Jorge
Just to be clear, per Hornady they use 96.0 grs. of H4831 in their factory ammo with the 480 DGX bullet.
Mike

Mike: I loaded some with 96 and 95gr as suggested. A filler is not needed just as you said. From the sound of it, they sound fuller than what the factory loadings seem, but I'll let the chrono decide I also have some loaded with 81gr of RL-15 and those do have the dacron filler. I'll report back when I can test.

A dumb question but is "Dacron" a trade name for polyester type filler, in other words can one use something that is not called dacron but looks and feels the same? Also I use a playing card type wad cut to size on my 45-110 Sharps that serves the same purpose, can a wad be used in lieu of the filler? jorge

Yep, pillow stuffing will work just fine. (I prefer teddy bear stuffing personally,at least till the wife finds out) I use a pencil eraser end to push it in til it's about where the base of the bullet should be. But that's on some other cartridges. I use the IMR on the 450.

I don't use card wads.

Thanks, Mike for all of your help. I'm going to try and go to the range tomorrow and see how these loads play out. I'm anxious to see the RL-15 reloads as well because I used the cordite to smokeless formula.

Jorge,

There is a cordite to smokeless formula for IMR4831 as well. You would multiply by 1.33. NOTE: That is for IMR4831. The Hodgdon H4831 is somewhat slower and would LIKELY take a bit more to give the same velocity.

I've found that I start about five grains below what the formula gives, and stop when my composite group is about one to one and a half inches at fifty yards, then go to 100 yards. (I am talking about my H&H 500/450 that has rounds from each barrel touching at 50 yards and the composite group from both barrels about 1 inch at that distance.)

If you get pressure signs, especially difficulty in opening, or serious primer problems beyond minor flattening, stop and rethink and consult.

Regards, Tim

Thanks, Tim. The ratio I used is pretty reliable for RL-15, 1.19X70 (original cordite charge was 70gr). As for pressure signs, I'll start with a chrono and see where that takes me.

An update, used the 96gr load and they shot pretty close to factory specs albeit about 50 fps slower on average. The RL-15 loads while very accurate per barrel, the composite was around 4" and with crossover which makes no sense as they clocked around 2050 (EDITED). They do show promise and next time I'm going with the full load of 83.3 (70grcordite) instead of the 81gr I used today.

This will be interesting. Crossing shows that it's too fast. Going to 83 should make it even worse.

I completely agree Mike, I just thought it was weird the crossover was more pronounced with the slower RL-15 when compared to the H-4831 loads. I still haven't ruled out the "shooter" and his technique though

Mike I got my figures crossed. The 95gr of H-4831 gave me the 1900-2010 loads. The 81gr of RL-15 gave me 2050. I used F215 primers so I'm repeating the load with CCI-250s as well as one with 82gr and CCIs.

Went to the range today and it seems the H-4831 96gr is the easiest approach to take. I can match (or pretty close) factory ammo regulation and velocities (2105 +/- 15 fps)and come close to the same accuracy. I’ve been using F215 primers but I’m going to try and use CCI-250s as that is what the recipe called for. The RL-15 load of 81 gr seems to approximate velocities ~2080 fps, with tight, single barrel groups, but huge crossover and big composite groups (5”). As suspected, upping the load to 82grRL-15 gave me more speed (2150)and a lot more X over. I’ll continue to play with it and different bullets, RL-15 shows promise but again the H-4831 load seems to come closest to the factory offerings. SO it begs the question, if I want more speed to match factory specs of 2150, and maybe find a better bullet than the DGX I have to spend big bucks with JJ to re-regulate. As an aside, I didn't know I was so impervious to recoil

Personally, I would not get to hung up on bullet speed. No animal will know the difference between 2,000 and 2,100 fps.

How do you figure that the RL-15 shows promise when it's crossing so much more than the H powder? Have you tried IMR powder yet?

Promise in that is shed good accuracy IF the rifle was regulated to it, ie., good individual groups from each barrel. I have not tried IMR because I'm an idiot and have "H" in my brain from all the years of shooting Weatherbys but that is my next testing.

Jorge, that H4831 load is a good one....and I believe the H4831 is an Extreme powder....i.e. little if any temperature sensitivity. Of course being a Florida boy myself, it gets HOT here too!

Looks like you're having fun with her!

Gary
DRSS
NRA Lifer
SCI
DSC

Hi Garby, yep. loads of fun, one can tell when I can go shoot 15-20 rounds of the bench with no recoil-shy issues
Like I said above, I'm going to buy some IMR tomorrow as that seems to be "the" poder from what the guys tell me here. We still need to get together for a shoot!

Yes we do!! If I can get some more work in for the boys I'll take a day or 2 off and we'll do that. You'll find the IMR powder will need a few grains less to get to the right speed...at least my Searcy did. It has 26" barrels and I get the 2125-2150 with those loadings....which is the right speed for what Butch regulates with....96 gr of IMR 4831.
I generally shoot around 20 rounds before giving up for the day....a few less with the 500 Jeff Bolt gun.

Gary
DRSS
NRA Lifer
SCI
DSC

Got some loaded up with 96 and 95gr with both F215 and CCI-250s.

Well I think I'm almost there with the 450. the IMR 4831 worked very well and even better with CCI-250s vice F215s. Go figure. Also the 96gr load gave me a 2" group but with crossover but spot on velocities ~ 2150. 95gr of IMR gave me a better group with just a slight drop in velocity, down to 2130 but still X over. I think I'll hit paydirt with 94grs and still stay at or above 2100 and that will be perfect. As I said before the factory loads work as my target shows but I'm committed to loading my own!

One issue I've run into is that of trimming. The Hornady trimmer I have is too short for these cases and I am unable to "set" the trimmer as the case and shell holder are well into the body of the trimmer so every time I trim I have to loosen the set knob and start over. To maintain uniformity I'm having to use an old spark plug gap guage on the crank side and so I have to adjust every time. Anybody know of a bigger trimmer I can buy?

jorge

Try a Forster Classic trimmer. They work great for all the big bores cartridges.

+1 on the Forster Classic.

Jorge,
Have you tried 97grns of H-4831?
I ask this as Hogdon is a readily available powder in Australia (possibly made here) and known to be well suited for hot conditions.
Also I'm interested in this calibre and like the 2100+fps velocity range in .40+ calibre.
Regards,
Ad

I sure have Oz, quite a bit. I'm getting cross over with 96gr so 97 would make it worse. It shoots factory Hornady loadings fine, but I'm trying to load mu own stuff. I had good results with IMR 4831 95gr but I think if I bump it down one more grain I'll get the regulation I want. Also one of the fellows here has had great results with 95gr of RL-19 and I'm also going to try that. Below is a sample target with factory. the tight group at the top is at 25 yards and the rest at 50:

Both of my 450's work great @96 grains of IMR 4831.

Probably a dumb question, but does one use "standard" reloading equipment? Or must one use some "magnum" size equipment for that 3-1/4" case?

The reason I ask is... I don't reload at all, but I want to start reloading for my .450NE.

Hope I'm not interupting, just wanted to know.

Nemo: For a huge cratridge like the 450 you need to find a press that is tall enough to handle it. I use a Lee press which has the largest opening of all. Also trimming is an issue with standard trimmers, for example my Hornady trimmer is way too short and as some suggested here, the Forster brand seems the way to go. jorge

I'm still useing my 30 year old RockChucker and a Lyman T Mag.

Just returned from the range and obtained good results with 94.5gr IMR 4831 and CCI-250s @ 2110 fps. It even surprised me with a "fluke 1/2" group. With 94.5 RL-19 and F215s it shot very well although slow @ 1990 & 2020 fps and I'm going to bump up the charge and see what happens. This rifle appears to be a 2" shooter on average with just about all the loads I've tried, but it is REAL finnicky with crossovers. A half grain and she'll cross big time.

Also I've noticed the velocity with factory ammo can vary as much as 75 fps. If they reach 2150 you get a nice 1" group with crossover but the slow ones (around 2100-2075) open up to 2" with no X over with vertical separation. I think I need to quit the anal-retentiveness and quit whilst I'm ahead

PS: For storage do I need to get snap caps and pull the triggers or can they be stored cocked?

When you think that you've got ot all dialed in... get a couple of boxes of Hornady 350 RN's and load them with the same powder charge..

Those porkers down your way will haye you.