In one of our threads the other day I remember a fellow AR member mentioning that his VC was so nice, he almost reluctant to take it hunting. I have a good friend that has a double that has such nice wood that he is reluctant to even take it to the gun range and shoot it. I have seen some pictures of guns on this board that are so beautiful that I be afraid to take them into the bush.

Here is my question. While I know some of these guns are works of art, if we truly intend to hunt with them, aren't we better off just buying the PH model and forgetting the upgraded wood and all the bells, whistles, engraving and such?

Not for me. I enjoy hunting with my best and worst.
Though it is a little painful to scratch up a prime piece of exhibition grade walnut, I look at those dings now knowing the satisfaction I felt when the buff went down.

Some one else said it..."life is too short to hunt with an ugly gun".

I'm with Bob. The scars my double and I carry back from Africa will serve as reminders of the adventure. Besides, almost anything can be repaired if you want it to be so.

My "deer rifle" has exhibition grade english walnut on it. (well, the maker calls it that, anyhow...) I hunt with it, and I'm fine with the nicks and dings (as long as it isn't abuse) as they remind me of the individual hunts.

I might at my current place in life refuse to hunt with a true high grade english double (unless someone gives it to me...) That's probably why I won't buy one.

If I buy it, it will be used.

I gave Ken a hand loading his Verney-Carron booth at the convention center this weekend.

There are some pretty damn beautiful guns and rifles there -- still I'd take any of them out in the hills and hunt with them, no problem at all.

...now if I could get Ken to leave a few of them here at my ranch on his way out of town so I CAN get them out in these hills for a little hunting...



Cheers
Tinker

quote:

Originally posted by crbutler:
If I buy it, it will be used.

My sentiments exactly! I love my very old double rifles that show a large amount of hunting use; regardless of how fancy it was when new! That patina can only come from age and use!

I am basically very conservative in taste where rifles are concerned, with a preference for color case hardening, and the engraving that is known as rose & scroll, with only lettering with inlaid gold.

Make them as fancy as you want and I'll take them in the field where they belong!

I'm only going through the hunting fields once in this life. I'm fortunate enough not to have to use ugly guns.

Guns are as much about art as utility. On my one trek through this life, there's no more ugly guns for me.

Even in a duck blind it's a sidelock 12 bore with fancy Circasium walnut. The ducks taste better when shot with it, and the pictures are alot better too.

Mike

This is one of my favorite rifles to carry.






It's covered in game scenes and intricate foliate engraving.
The wood is very pretty, the barrels are bernard damascus and are also very pretty.
It's a sixteen bore (pinfire!!) double rifle, very light with a straight wrist and it handles like a light game gun.
It's 150 years old!!



Cheers
Tinker

quote:

In one of our threads the other day I remember a fellow AR member mentioning that his VC was so nice, he almost reluctant to take it hunting.

That would be me Dave, and this is the girl in question, my VC .470NE, I even hate to let anyone shoot her for fear the rings they are wearing will scratch the wood. I know it's just a gun but.....well, you all know.....

If the economy ever turns around and I can afford to go back I will take her to Zambia and hunt with her but I will be damn careful and I do worry every time I take her to the range. She is perfect with a 500gr Woodleigh soft over 107.0gr of IMR-4831.

I hunt with all of my doubles. Some were built in 1874 and are "best guns". They have been performing in the feild for over 130 years, and still kill as well as they did new...that's what they were built to do. I like to think the maker is looking down from heaven and smiling when I drop an animal with his gun.
I would be embarrased to put a "safe ding" on one of these guns...even though they get a free pass on AR-bay. I believe battle scars show character, but safe dings show lack of coordination.
ND

quote:

I believe battle scars show character, but safe dings show lack of coordination.

You should see the machinations I go through to avoid safe dings, it would probably be comical to an onlooker.

Amen Cane Rat!!!
Take good care of these beautiful treasures at home, and then enjoy using them in the bush, for what they are intended.

Don't get me wrong...I appreciate the men who have a fantastic gun built and then don't use it. They leave it in the safe so it stays like new...
Then guys like me buy them from their great grandchildren 100 years later, in pristine condition, and take them hunting...like the maker intended.
ND

"The answer my friends is blowing in the winds".... two guns. I would never hesitate to take my K-gun into the fields. It is indeed a working gun but the wood on my Blaser is so pretty I would be really careful with it. It makes a fantastic bison gun because bison hunting is not done in very rough terrain but I would be hesitant to drag it into the thick bush,

Cane Rat that is one fine rifle and I know exactly what you mean with letting guys wearing rings shoot your double.

quote:

Originally posted by Dave Bush:
Cane Rat that is one fine rifle and I know exactly what you mean with letting guys wearing rings shoot your double.

I don't wear rings, watch or anything on my clothes that might scratch the gun.
It is far too easy for something to happen, particularly a watch.

But I do take my guns hunting !

quote:

Originally posted by 500N:

quote:

Originally posted by Dave Bush:
Cane Rat that is one fine rifle and I know exactly what you mean with letting guys wearing rings shoot your double.

I don't wear rings, watch or anything on my clothes that might scratch the gun.
It is far too easy for something to happen, particularly a watch.

But I do take my guns hunting !

Mike Roden at GMA told me that guys with rings and big belt buckles cause more damage to the rifles he takes to shoots and shows than they would get if taken hunting. Said he now makes them take that stuff off if they want to shoot one.

rings especially can wreak havoc on a good checkering job, and really flatten it in no time.

best

peter

quote:

Originally posted by Cane Rat:]

Mike Roden at GMA told me that guys with rings and big belt buckles cause more damage to the rifles he takes to shoots and shows than they would get if taken hunting. Said he now makes them take that stuff off if they want to shoot one.

That's a fair call.

Rings damage the forend, the watch strap buckle scratches the wrist of the stock and sometimes the butt and belt Buckles (the one I forgot) scratch the stock when you are just holding the gun across your chest.

Ammo in an ammo belt is also a PITA sometimes if not careful so I went away from a full ammo belt to the smaller one's that slide onto a belt.

.

nope.....If i just wanted to look at something I would buy paintings......

I hunt with my guns also. This year in Zim after shooting my buffalo I ran up to put in a finisher and got hung up in a mopane bush while reloading. This was my Verney Carron 577. I remember thinking of how scratched up my gun was going to be after snatching it out of the brush. I mean this gun had the action open and pulled me around as I ran through the brush. Anyway it really didn't matter at the time and afterwards when I saw how it only had small marks on it I smiled.
I work out of a $50000 pick-up so why should I worry about a scratch on a $17000 gun. They are made to be used. Now I will not give my gun to a tracker to carry for anything. I'LL die of heat stroke first.

Sam

quote:

Originally posted by peterdk:
rings especially can wreak havoc on a good checkering job, and really flatten it in no time.

Yet another good reason for me not to get married!!

don

if you need more than one, just ask, i have a full dictionary that i made while i was with my ex-wife.

Scratches in the bush when hunting add character !!!

I have a Holland Royal stock with Tooth and scratch / claw marks in it from the hunter
being attacked !!!

I think it was a Leopard.

If you check with a stock guy, you'd be surprised how affordable it is to have a wood stock "re-done"....steam out the dents, touch up the checkering, re-oil the finish. They can maker a beater back into a show gun for less than you'd think.

quote:

Originally posted by 500N:
Scratches in the bush when hunting add character !!!

I have a Holland Royal stock with Tooth and scratch / claw marks in it from the hunter
being attacked !!!

I think it was a Leopard.

500,
Now that's some serious character! They don't sell ones like that in the new gun stores. I am envious! Tooth and Claw marks...how cool is that!
ND

My guns are made to hunt, period. They're beautiful works of art for the most part and most of them are customized, but that's where the beauty ends. I have no guns that I consider to be "collectors items", or I wouldn't own them. I figure that if you are not going to hunt with a gun, then you might as well just take a video or picture of it, sell the gun to someone who will, and then get the video or picture out occasionally and look at it. I will say, in all fairness however, that I am careful with them while hunting, as I want to retain as much beauty as I can, and I don't take reckless actions that would damage or mar them. But I am not anal about it, as you then worry more about the gun than the hunt.

quote:

Originally posted by 500N:
Scratches in the bush when hunting add character !!!

I have a Holland Royal stock with Tooth and scratch / claw marks in it from the hunter
being attacked !!!

I think it was a Leopard.

In another thread I think in the African Hunting forum (or maybe this, i don't remember0 it was asked whether people would be interested in rifles that belonged to celebrities or famous people (something to that effect).

I wouldn't be interested in something just to say it was owned by ...

BUT, somthing like this, if you had the story that went with the marks and mauling - now THAT would be very cool to own! I piece of tattered clothing belonging to the "maulee" would make it all the more interesting.

quote:

Originally posted by Use Enough Gun:
My guns are made to hunt, period. They're beautiful works of art for the most part and most of them are customized, but that's where the beauty ends. I have no guns that I consider to be "collectors items", or I wouldn't own them. I figure that if you are not going to hunt with a gun, then you might as well just take a video or picture of it, sell the gun to someone who will, and then get the video or picture out occasionally and look at it. I will say, in all fairness however, that I am careful with them while hunting, as I want to retain as much beauty as I can, and I don't take reckless actions that would damage or mar them. But I am not anal about it, as you then worry more about the gun than the hunt.

UEG,I'm a combination of all types of hunters and collectors, and gun nuts! By that I mean no matter if a gun is a collector item,if it will SHOOT, it will HUNT, I've hunted all my life and not just with guns, but with slingshots, bows, shotguns, handguns, and to me hunting is one thing and tools are another.

I would own firearms even if I didn't hunt, or even shoot paper. No firearm is too good to hunt with, only the reverse is true. Some guns are not good ENOUGH to hunt with, but still are desirable items because of being rare examples of the history of firearms, and are a pleasure to own, even if they don't work anymore.

I've been a hunter all my life, a gun owner most of my life, and when I can't hunt and my eyesight gets bad enough that I can't hunt or shoot I will still own guns!

My Dad was one of the guys, who said he saw a gun as only a tool, and I still have all his guns and the conditions shows that attitude of the toolbox mentality with his guns, but like you he loved to hunt. To me pictures are nice but they are for someone other than me, there is nothing to compare to the FEEL of a well made firearm that fits, regardless if you ever even shoot it or not, or the thrill of the stalk on game! If the two can be combined, well and good but if not they are still seperately enjoyable to me!

My dad always said firearms were simply wood and steel tools, but when he went blind with Glaucoma he called me to his home, and gave me all his firearms, so when he died they would already be mine so they would stay in my family. SO no matter what he said, we find they weren't just tools after all!

I think when we get down to the brass tacks this is true of all gunowner/hunters!

They're all nice. I've never seen one too nice. I hunt with every one of them. That being said, after hunting for 50 plus years I am respectful of the guns. Always mindful of belt buckles, zippers, branches, etc.

Now if you will excuse me, I am going to grab one of my doubles and go out in the rain/snow mix we are having today and see if I can kill another deer.

quote:

Originally posted by Nitrodave:

quote:

Originally posted by 500N:
Scratches in the bush when hunting add character !!!

I have a Holland Royal stock with Tooth and scratch / claw marks in it from the hunter
being attacked !!!

I think it was a Leopard.

500,
Now that's some serious character! They don't sell ones like that in the new gun stores. I am envious! Tooth and Claw marks...how cool is that!
ND

Yep, that's why I grabbed it when it became available.

I THINK it was from a 500/465 and if I could only remember the hunters name - I think he was well known.

Anyway, I'll find the booklet that has a photo of him in one day and that will make it all click.

But that is one stock that I won't be refinishing !!! LOL

quote:

Originally posted by MacD37:
SO no matter what he said, we find they weren't just tools after all!

Amen to that.

I worked my way through school as a roofer in my Uncle's business. I (not his own son) inherited his favorite hammer and folding wood ruler. He used these two tools every day we worked together and it shows - but he also took care of them. They weren't "just" tools, they were the tools he lived by. I get the sense that you and your dad were/are of the same mind. So am I.

MacD37: Like you, I've hunted with and carried all of the things that you mentioned above. My father also did the very same thing. For one thing, he was always very possessive of his guns and he took very good care of them. His motto was: "Take care of the dogs, clean your gun and hunting gear and then clean up yourself-all in that order." When he became very sick, he called me and asked me to come by and meet with him. When I arrived, he already had his guns ready for me to take. Knowing how well I take care of things, I received his favorites and the more valuable ones, including ones that belonged to my grandfather. One of my grandfather's rifles that I didn't receive from my Dad was my grandfather's Savage Model 99 .300 Savage. My brother took possession of it and was going to sell it because he needed the money. Big mistake in my eyes. I bought it from him to keep it in the family and because of its memories. I have used all of my dad's and grandfather's rifles, pistols and shotguns at one time or another to hunt or to plink, including, but not limited to, my dad's and grandfather's Browning Auto 5's, Remington Model 11's, Winchester pre-64 rifles, Winchester octagonal barreled pump .22's, etc. etc. But, I have friends who buy guns and never hunt with them. They are collectors only. They keep all of the original boxes and wrapping. Occasionally they will get them out to "pet them" with a gloved hand and then put them back, never to see the light of day for another year. Not me. I can't do that. Life is too short not to enjoy a fine firearm by putting it to it's intended use, if it is mechanically sound, and to create wonderful, lasting memories!

From forty plus years ago...a true story. My late father's brother a real uncle, "Uncle Bill" was shooting one day. On the pheasants.

A well meaning fellow gun came up to him and said, "A pair of Boss! My goodness the are worth a thousand pounds (US $ 1500)".

He never shot with them again and sold them for a pair of AYA (at about £250 or US $ 425) such was his pleasure spoiled for fear of damaging them.

So, even all those years ago, these things were too valuable to enjoy without worry!

I sold my Sunbeam Tiger 260 motor car for EXACTLY the same reason. Fear of damaging it or fear of it being vandalised.

quote:

Originally posted by crbutler:
My "deer rifle" has exhibition grade english walnut on it. (well, the maker calls it that, anyhow...) I hunt with it, and I'm fine with the nicks and dings (as long as it isn't abuse) as they remind me of the individual hunts.

I might at my current place in life refuse to hunt with a true high grade english double (unless someone gives it to me...) That's probably why I won't buy one.

If I buy it, it will be used.

I could not agree more! Guns, like beautiful women, fine wines, single malts, etc, etc, were made to be appreciated and used for the intended purpose of the maker. If you just want to hide it and occaisionaly look at it why not consult an art dealer and invest in a Piccasso?

They have firing pins don't they?

I was at a custom gunmakers home discussing work he was doing for me on one of my rifles. He brought out several of his personal rifles on which he had lavished attention most would not pay for. They were works of art in fine french walnut and with many tasteful embellishments.

I commented, really without thinking, as he handed me his beautiful 300 H&H, "it would be a shame to take this one hunting and ding it up". He replied "it would be shame not to". I was much chagrined by his statement and it brought home to me that rifles, no matter how fine, are tools to hunt with and the honest wear and signs of use are appropriate and the very thing that gives them character.

Mart