As said - those sights were made with particullar goal in mind - that is driven hunts in a dusky fall/winter European woods - they are fast and deadly up to 50m. However they lack (beside classic iron look) that edge that would increase their true radius out to 80m (maybe 100m) - so I was juggling with idea to replace the front sight with this one (it would be the size of that green inserts on back sight):



Gentlemen?

P.S.

This:



Instead of this

I like that smaller bead. It may greatly improve the fast AND slow shots. I like to see daylight between the front and rear sight. But like this improvement I like just a little light. Now, how does it go on shooting? Good Luck. Packy

Hmm - will see - I haven't made my mind - yet – I will leave it as it is for a while - have shot 1 more red deer calf and 1 boar - those fiber sights are truly paradoxical – for instance when point shooting at close range (15m) on running game I found myself aiming like with shotgun (focusing on target – relying on rifle fit that points to where I am looking at the moment, front post is just an orange blur but its there - it works - at close range (made just a hair cut on another red calf – running at 40m). But when I try to aim more precisely (on range) - focus on front bead and sight alignment – target is blury – the fiber post becomes a bit distractive – no doubt I would be better served with classic silver bead or post.

A few years ago, I found my personal solution to that question, i.e. a fast sight system for running shots (drive hunting) between 5 and 100 m : a "battue" scope.
Here are my 2 staple drive hunting rifles :

Fair weather : FN-Browning 9,3x74R + Swaro 1,25-4x24 (circle dot reticle)

Foul weather : R93 9,3x62 + Swaro PVI-2 1,25-4x24 (illuminated reticle 4).

Andre no doubt I would kill two flies with one stroke – speaking of a deadly tool I have my R93 topped with Docter 1-4x for that.

I don’t know but there is something about shooting with open sights that triggers some strong primeval feelings – makes shooting through scope like watching TV – accurate but kind of surreal.

Point is, I have a soft spot for iron sights - there is a sweet memory deeply imbedded in my mind of my first big game taken with borrowed Ferlacher double in the snowstorm with silver bead and a U notch. That memory was fading away through years but remaining that strong so I have obtained this double deliberately to keep it up.

BTW - remeber first target:

quote:

I just found out lately that TUG's are printing exactly at the POA (left barrel 2 inches high) - must been the day. I have also tested Norma's 286gr Oryx - the right barrel shoots it far right (out of target) while left one is perfect, so if I would like to show off at the range the perfect factory combination is 293gr TUG in the right and 286gr Oryx in the left barrel .

quote:

shooting through scope like watching TV – accurate but kind of surreal

Correct and it also forces one to aim, putting the reticle where it belongs (also mighty helpfull for holding forward on a moving target). My tally went up at once (to about 80% success) since I started to use a scope. As a matter of fact, with iron sights, I was tempted to focus on the target and point the rifle "shotgun style".

Excelent post !!!, Thank to all that wrote!!! and share your experiences, I learn a lot.Regards ;Guillermo

Well guys – got another red deer calf yesterday – here’s the story.

Driven hunt – I was among drivers – small group of red deer - hind with a calf and a last year calf tried to escape between us – they were coming at full speed – no chance to take a shot with scope – I took a fast, aimed - not snaped R-L at 8m distance. Missing with R – got a hit with L on the front leg . After 3 hours and 5 km track I got a finisher from 5m.

The more I shoot it the more I tend to look at classics. Although those fiber sights are fast – there is an ethical question that arises on taking such fast running shots on healthy animal – I sure won’t take them for some time. Sooo - if you don’t need speed why bother with fibers? As said I will left them on till the end of the season (end of December) and later give them an sincere thought.

P.S. No doubt – shooting open sights well, is a fine art and it would be a crime to let it die out – my hat is off to those that can master them.

Andre
Nice set of rifles and scopes.

Also I have found a scope with a daytime illuminated reticle really helps with running game.

I agree. I also find it easier to maintain a proper forward hold when leading a running target, thanks to the high visibility of the reticle.

Well couple of shots and critters later I am still on fibers - looks like I am catching up with rifle and her sights - things are comming together in a trance. Here are pics of my latter shots:

Red deer calf - shot troting:



Mouflon ram - prviously wounded in hind leg by another hunter - I shot him at 60m with calm R-L behind the shoulder (hits were 1 1/2 inch apart - made one exit ) and additional R between neck and shoulder.



Fact is that in the field bullets land just inside area that front fiber post is covering (corresponds roughly with my and rifles spread) and not above (where I wanted them). Confidence is growing.

quote:

Originally posted by N E 450 No2:
Before you change the sights give them a try in the field.

Toni I guess now I know what you mean !

mouse

No doubt confidence is a big factor.

When I first got my doubles I had previously only taken 2 deer with open sights on a rifle in my life.

To build my confidence for longer range shooting, I quit shooting at any kind of " regular target". I bought some "real looking" animal targets, and shot at them from field positions.

That is where I learned to appreciate the non classical sights on the Blaser.

Also try this. Sometimes when you are in the woods, where safe of course, you can always unload it if necessary, shoulder your rifle and turn 360 degrees and see how the sights look in all possible conditions from where you are standing.

Do it in the open as well and when under the forest canopy. Repeat with a rifle that has classical sights if possible.

Also there is nothing wrong with having a scope fitted in QD mounts, and keeping it "in your pocket" for those occasional long shots.

I have many times actually removed my scope to take the shot with iron sights as I too like to hunt with them.

In fact before my firast trip to Zim I knew I was going to use my 9,3 double for my plains game gun.

So the year before I left I "made myself" hunt with the scope on the 9,3 all the time to get really good with it.

Up till then I had used the iron sights for most all the game shot with the rifle.

Hi Viz, fast iron sights, with a good scope on QD mounts is a great "system" for a 9,3 double.

Actually for ANY double 40 cal and under.

As a matter of fact I have bought a second hand Zeiss Diatal 4x32 couple months before and is sitting in my drawer since. It allready has 3 parts of "Suhler einhack" mount (only rear shoe is missing).



What bothers me is that scoped double would drive out other rifles and I realy wouldn't want to left my R93 in the rack ever since .

mouse

I understand that problem. I like using my doubles and drillings so much I sometimes have to "make" myself use my R 93.

That 4x scope in QD mounts will really enhance your 9,3 double.

I think all drillings and all doubles 40 cal and under should be scoped.

I have to agree with Ray on some level, as I don't like the way the new irons look. I believe they spoil the looks of a very nice little double rifle, and look a little space kadetish and the style simply doesn't match double rifles, IMO!

That being said, I do believe the sights are well designed for shooting, and would fit right in on a Blazer, or a Mannlicher sub-machine gun. I have no doubt the sights work. mouse93 has proven that, but if the rifle were mine those sights would be changed as soon as I could cobble out another more classic set.

Even the sights on my older 140E, and 140-2 are being modified from square notch and partridge, to wide-V, and bead, as we speak.

Got some good advice over at NE - taped the front post with black tape to eliminate that red glow by fibers on top and sides:



Results (2x R-L at 60m):

Itch was just unbearable - express sights were allready on order, when on one of the last hunts last year I handled my friends double fitted with ones (shallow V - silver bead) in the woods and got rather dissapointed with efforts needed picking them out in different lighting conditions (especialy when light comes from front). So I took a good thought on the matter and decided to give a try to Recknagel smalest fiber bead (2mm) and rear that comes with it.

Front:



Rear (upper height of the side forks is originaly adjusted to bigger bead - they were lowered so the upper edge alignes with top of the bead) :



Look trough them with rear light against dark background:



With front light:



Glow of the front bead is steady with no side light effects - black hoops frame it nice. So I took the bull by its horns and went at 100m range right away. Front bead diameter coincide with outer circle diameter of the target when aiming at 100m. So I put R-L with 293 factory TUG's (lower hits) and R-L with factory Norma 230gr Oryx and got lucky on those must admit


Ah I hear Iggy Pop's on that one:

"So I take a little bad with the good..."

So the search is over (till nex time ) - I will sleep good tonight.

I would like to thank to all that contributed to this thread - it was an enjoyable journey and I loved it all the way.

Thanks for the heads up on varying seating depth. Kudude

After all the hype about multiple green dots and this kind of front sight and that kind, they look more like express sights now then they did to begin with.

You now have what looks like little tiny express sights!

Maybe them Brits knew what they were doing, even without computers and CNC machines!

Finished:

mouse93
I think you are a winner!I had trouble shooting my .500 jeffery with standed iron sights and put a illuminated(red) bead on the front and its the best thing i ever did.I shot my firt cape buf using it last year and found as I was aiming the rifle moving from bright sunlught to shade I kept my point of aim so much easier. I must treat myself to one of those doules I miss the 470NE

I believe even I could hit something with such a sight setup.....