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Just brought the lady home and after reading so much about Merkel's open sights they were one of the first things to look at. I was pleasantly surprised - they look good to me. Gentlemen any thoughts?   | ||
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They have changed since the ones issued at the turn of the millenium. Even a blind man could shoot well with those.  | |||
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I don't know.... They look like you could line them up alright but I wonder if they would be so bright as to distract you from concentrating on the target. A black buff (for example) standing in the sticks and shade takes some concentration just to figure out what part of him you are seeing - especially if you are standing in the sunlight. From the pictures my impression is that these sights would make it even harder to focus on the target. My first thought is to stay with the old tried and true front bead so your focus is out in front of the rifle. ALLEN W. JOHNSON - DRSS Into my heart on air that kills From yon far country blows: What are those blue remembered hills, What spires, what farms are those? That is the land of lost content, I see it shining plain, The happy highways where I went And cannot come again. A. E. Housman | |||
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I would definitely have trouble with those. I prefer express sights. ----------------------------------------------- "Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder." | |||
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First I've seen these. My new 141 has the same front but regular rear. Really like this rear. Similar to the ERA that Heym puts on their SR30's. The flat topped pyramid shape is neat and the dots just an extra. I found the Heyms the fastest sights I've ever used. My SR30 was a carbine in 35 Whelen and I understand built for running boar shooting. These really look like a good deal to me. SCI Life Member NRA Patron Life Member DRSS | |||
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Are you sure this is a 140, or is it the newer 141? The sights are not the only change if this is a 140!The rib is different as well. It is the one used on the 140-2, SAFARIand like the new 141. I like the front OK, but the back sight reminds me of a Blaser, and I don't like it at all! Of course it isn't my rifle!  ....Mac >>>===(x)===> MacD37, ...and DUGABOY1 DRSS Charter member "If I die today, I've had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"~ME 1982 Hands of Old Elmer Keith  | |||
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I'd take it to the range and see how it worked there. Obviously, red targets are going to be a problem, but I haven't seen too many bright orange deer in the woods ... analog_peninsula ----------------------- It takes character to withstand the rigors of indolence. | |||
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I've got the older sights, which is peculiar as I bought mine from merkel this summer. Is there anyway to put those newer sights on and maintain the sight regulation... should I send it to Merkel, or should I send it to a smith? "Sometimes nothing can be a pretty cool hand." 470 Heym; 9.3x74r Chapuis, Heym 450/400 on it's way | |||
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If those are fiberoptic inserts in those sights, a single accidental squirt of degreaser/solvent can dull them, make them brittle, or even totally melt them loose. They may be good shooters but they are mechanically and chemically fragile. I would not use any fiberoptic sight unless I had the ability to replace the inserts at the drop of a hat. After thinking of this, I have decided that I prefer my square notch and patridge front on my Merkel. I used automotive touchup enamel to paint my front sight white and I used red to fill the engraved line leading to the rear square notch. When I go blind I may have to try something different. I like the 1911-45ACP-combat-style sights for speed and precision. I can tolerate the shallow V and bead better than fiberoptics. Just my considered opinion on plastic inserts on double rifle sights. To each his own 2 cents. | |||
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Mac it is 140 for sure - will take her to dance on Saturday and report how it went. There are some things to be solved (beside doubling on purpose  ). Rifle should have been regulated for 293 gr RWS UNI (TUG) while on certificate it signs that it was regulated with 230 gr Norma Vulkan, on target attached it signs 293 UNI  . I could live with that unless the shape of the holes on the target isn't the sharp cut by UNI but cutt like on normal bullets (i.e. Vulcan) and one more attestation - instead of silver remains in the barrel by nickel-plated UNI there are copper ones - so I guess it was regulated with Vulcan. I could live with it if it was 286 gr but 230  It will be clear on Saturday - if lady wont carry shooes No 286 - 293 she will have a free journey back to old folks in Germany. In your oppinion - what results should I expect (in case it was regulated with 230 gr going 2559 fps - compared to 286 - 293gr going ~2400 fps? | |||
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mouse93 My Chapuis was factory regulated with 293gr TUG. It shoots 286gr [many different types], 270 Speer, and 232 gr Vulcan bullets just fine. The sights on my Chapuis 9,3 have 3 "slashes" in the steel rear blade, that in certain light conditions, when the blade tends to fade out, that show up because of the orange/reddish insert behind the blade. It helps with the aiming. When the blade shows up the best the orange is not visible. Mmmmm, may them sight designers now what they are doing. I can say that the design of the rear sight has never negativly effected my aiming. Before you change the sights give them a try in the field. DOUBLE RIFLE SHOOTERS SOCIETY | |||
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Thanks NE - sounds very appeasing about bullets I hope mine would swallow them as well, it would be a pain in the neck to send rifle back and wait...again...it took 40 weeks to get her in first place . I am not going to change sights - as said they were a nice surprise and I believe we will co-op just fine. Back sight seemed a bit "pushy" at first, but now (I have shouldered her some 100 times by now ) they seem to fuse with front in one compact picture that you just put to place. RIP those are fibreoptic indeed (they are more greenish than on picture), thanks for pointing it out - will take care. If they turn out as you said I may just poke them out and "let the air flow"  . | |||
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I would be happy with both the rifle and the sights if it shoots well with 286grn bullets at 20m and 100m. ozhunter | |||
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Mouse93, the target on mine says it was regulated with the 230 as well, but it shoots 286s just fine with all the 286 gr bullets I've tried. I've never used the 293s but i think it will shoot them if it shoots the 286s. As I said, I haven't shot any 293s, nor have i shot any 230s, so I really can't say from personal experience! I love my 140E, and I predict you will fall in love with that rifle very quickly! Congratulations on your new shooter!  ....Mac >>>===(x)===> MacD37, ...and DUGABOY1 DRSS Charter member "If I die today, I've had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"~ME 1982 Hands of Old Elmer Keith | |||
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mouse93, Yes, do be careful with any solvents around those fiberoptic rear sight inserts. Ivory or gold pegs would make nice replacements. Your sights do have the flat-top-square-notch-rear & patridge-front comformation that I love. Combat-quick and precise, and helpful for estimating holdover for those 600-yard shots. I could get along very well with those sights of yours as long as I did not have to replace any inserts in the field. Sounds like these 9.3x74R's are an illustration of the 75% Rule. | |||
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Thanks guys - pluck up accepted | |||
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Results: - target 5 cm ~ 2 inch black circle - distance 60 m ~ 66 yds - factory - 270 gr. Hirtenberger ~ 2400 fps - factory - 293 gr. UNI (TUG) ~ 2320 fps - shot offhand - sitting - aim center of circle - top of front (red) aligned with top of rear (black)  As you can see right barrel prints 2 inch right and 2 inch high, left barrel prints 3 inches high. 293 TUG's are sitting right in the middle of 270 gr groups. If aim would be aligning top front (red) with top of green side dots on rear the height would be spot on. Gentlemen? | |||
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Shoot it at 100 yards before you do anything to the sights. That 270gr bullet looks like the Speer bullet. DOUBLE RIFLE SHOOTERS SOCIETY | |||
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NE I will try - tho sights are a bit bulky for 100 yds. after all this is just first session - there are another two factory loads to be tested. Sako - 286 gr Nosler Partition, going 2270 fps and 286 gr CDP going 2400 fps. And then there are reloads... will report. That is TMRK (partial jacket round nose)loaded by Hirtenberger it may be Sierra bullet. | |||
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The fact that the groups are a bit high and diverged means you need to step up the velocity to bring the POI's down to POA and closer to parallel. The vertical spread may still be there or it might get smaller. That divergence will be even greater at 100 meters than at 60 meters as it is. You need a new load. Just a grain or two more powder might do. Have you actually chronographed the loads or are you quoting "factory" claims? Good shooting on your part, but you have not quite found the load your rifle likes. However it is certainly shooting Minute Of Moose already. | |||
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I haven't chronographed the loads, I am quoting factory claims. Sure will try all I can to bring them as close as possible - thanks for a tip - I guess that 286 NP with 2270 might give a confirmation on your hint (should be worse). So before I will start with reloads those two mentioned above will have a go. P.S. I guess them doubles are indeed females by their soul and it should take some chasing before getting laid .BTW - I haven't read "Shooting British double" and I know nothing on that matter but on the clip from Merkel downloads one can see that guy regulating the barrels (benchrest) is resting the rifle - marked red,  while I was holding it (offhand) - marked blue - so if I change the grip to red mark (centre of gravity) would it impact the POI? | |||
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Allright - just came back from the range.  First two shots were L-R with 286 NP that printed low and apart (as RIP sugested )Then I fired 4 x L-R with 286 CDPs and the sun began to shine  Just to compare with previous session I fired two TRMKs that confirmed results from Sunday. P.S. I measured the black circle again and it realy measures 3 inches not two as stated before - I appologise. I attached bullets that I dug out from the soil behind the target. They were stopped by a solid rock. TMRKs were turned to dust. Above are remains of 4 CDPs and 1 NP below. CDP is one tough bullet. What surprises me is that the left barrel prints much better groups than the right one - perhaps I should adopt firing the left first? | |||
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looks like you are well on your way now mouse93, i envy you i did just buy my first 9,3 but i have to wait for the usual BS with permits import and personal. i just got it at holt auction this thursday. im gonna scope though as soon as it gets here.  peter | |||
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I saw your story over at NE forum - hope all turnes well. So much of a factory ammo. Next week I will load some 250 and 286 TSXs. I guess I will use N140 or/and R907 and see. Any tip on starting loads? | |||
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Are those CDP's factory Blaser ammo? They also shoot really well in my Blaser S2 and I'm hoping I can test them in the field this hunting season. Proud DRSS member | |||
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CDP are made by RUAG ammotec and are actually loaded by Norma. Bullet comes from Swiss army development - CDP - and RUAG (owns Norma, RWS...) distribute them under a couple representatives names - one of the biggest is Blaser. Those of mine were loaded exclusively for Johan Fanzoi from Ferlach (fancy box of 10 with Fanzoi brand on it, separately stored in carbon boxes of 5...). Everything beside packing and brass (in my case stamped with "T" - Thun) - loads, price... remains the same. Just a note on CDP - they are tough (app. Swift A-frame class) so use them accordingly. | |||
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Latest contenders: GS FN - 265 gr and TSX 286gr  Loading up FNs getting better from 55 - 59gr of R907 still no signs of pressure (the one near the center is a flyer):  TSX - 2 loads - 55 and 57 gr - 55 didn't make it on the target - 57 looking better - no signs of pressure yet - lowest one a flier - again ... Among other things one is sure - those sights are light sensitive - height today was low due to direct sun on the front sight (checked with 270 TRMK - that shot spot on today). P.S. Forgot chrono at home tho  | |||
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mouse93 As mentioned somewhere in the past, using your other hand holding the fore-arm while on the sandbags is preferable, but it doesn't seem to be that crucial with the 9.3. With the biggies, it is crucial and will change poi if not done right. Good shooting. Used to be 475Guy add about 2000 more posts | |||
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I suppose next they'll put a chip in the butt stock that turns the front green when the sights are properly aligned? I like 'em but can't help noticing they look like a traffic light.  "Experience" is the only class you take where the exam comes before the lesson. | |||
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First blood  Helping a friend on cull this Saturday. We were driven hunting red deer - a hind and a calf came in at full speed - got a hit at 30 m (bit low and rear - guts low) on a calf with right barrel just before it dissapeared over the ridge - reloading I ran to look over the ridge and saw it down the slope - running over a walley at 120 meters - snap shot roll it over like a rabbit (a bold one but striked home - read my signature ) - bullet (286 gr CDP) entered on the loins - exit behind opposite shoulderexit:  | |||
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Great sights, loads, and shooting. What breed is that hunting hound? A dachsund on steroids? Great post, great proof of the pudding.  | |||
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Thanks RIP - no it is a Bavarian mountain tracking dog - steroids on dachshund would be more correctly Tho I found a bugger - see above:
...that shot on calf going low bothered me so much (I remember holding it in the middle of the body) so I went on the range again and fired a couple of factory CDP's (this time loaded for Blaser) - bugger they shot low ~ as TSX's above - so I took a deeper look and found a bug - CDP's loaded for Mr. Fanzoi had (factory stated) 2362 fps and are seated shallower, while those for Blaser are actually manufactured by RWS going (factory stated) 2296 fps and are seated quite deep. Difference on 60 m is 4-5 inches Just got myself a box of factory 230 gr Norma Oryx (should have done it right from beginning) and will give them a try in the coming week. I have also sent GS FN results to Gerard and got a swift reply with good ideas - improvements are on the way. | |||
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Bavarian Mountain Tracking Dog: I want one!
That is a lot like the 400/.395NE with a GS FN and HV .395/340-grainer. Beautiful. | |||
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Yup here is another one:  Bah I am bored - it is raining outside and can't make it to the range (hope weather clears tomorrow) so just a lollipop pic of what I have/will shoot :  L-R: TUG 293, TMRK 270, Oryx 232, CDP 286 ("Blaser"), CDP 286 (Fanzoi), GS FN 265 (loaded with 58-62gr R203) | |||
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I'm not sure but those sights have to be illegal on a double. I am confindent in their immorality. I'd have to have express sights or at least a set to put on when I showed the rifle to friends. | |||
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Back from range - shot GS FN's 265 with R903 - chrono results: - 58 gr - 2247 fps - 60 gr - 2333 fps - 62 gr - 2427 fps It wasn't quite my day - jurked all to the right, but got a good height with 60gr of R903:  Tried a 2x2 L-R with 232 Oryx going 2559 fps and for a comparisation a L-R with 286 CDP going 2362 fps:  One thing is standing out more and more - I bet the rifle was regulated with 286's going ~ 2360 fps. | |||
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OK - with GREAT help from Gerard I made final adjustments on GS FN 265 gr load (changed POA from center to 6 o'clock):Powder R903 - 61 gr Played with OAL (from right to left): - 91.2 mm, 92.0 mm, 93.0 mm  Results:  So GS FN 265 gr - R903 61 gr (2384 fps) - OAL 93 mm is a winner. | |||
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Adjusting seating depth of GSC bullets to fine tune the double rifle load. Noted. Good work. | |||
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Such sights on a double rifle is akin to incest, mutilation, and child porn!!  Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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Ray I guess you are right, tho they are fast and they may just be an evolution form from irons toward holosights ? Yup devils all around . | |||
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The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Double Rifles Merkel 140 open sights
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