I just returned from Botswana where I hunted 2 elephants with my V-C 500 NE. I have a number of questions and comments as follows:

1- The 500 NE is bad medicine for elephants.

2- After viewing the video of my first bull, it is astounding just how fast a second shot could be made. I am not exactly an old hand with doubles. The speed at which the second shot was made has made me a believer in doubles.

3- My gun (perhaps all doubles?) has no finish on the very end of the barrel. This seems to want to rust easily even is wiped down daily. Is there a solution to this?

4- I had a Docter Optik on my gun. It shot about a inch low at 25 yards. I took limited ammo due to the weight. I was reluctant to start messing around with the DO. Further, the written instructions made no sense whatsoever. Poor translation. I ended up just taking it off and shooting with iron sights.

The following is a sentence directly from the manual. "Turning the adjusting screw clockwise results in a downward respectively leftward shift target point." Huh?????

It is entirely possible that my gun guys had the gun sighted low. Has anyone experienced an issue such as this? Are there better instructions for the DO anywhere? There were 4 of us that read portions of the manual and none of us had a clue what it meant.

I like shooting with the DO. However, any adjustment necessary used precious ammo. Does anyone have any good ideas on this matter?

5- I practiced extensively with snap caps (thanks HBH). This made it second nature to automatically shift triggers.

Does this damage the rifle in any way? Can snap caps get worn out?

6- Will remounting the DO change the point of impact from where it previously was?

7- How well will the DO hold zero after being beat around in the truck?

8- I love the night sight on my VC. I am shooting with it due to my 56 year old eyes. Shortly before I left, the night bead fell out. I glued it back. It stayed on in Botswana. I want to make sure it stays on. Any recommendations?

Thanks.

Welcome home my friend and congratulations on what sounds like a great safari.

In turn:
1 & 2) YEP!!!

3)if you mean the crowns, all of the doubles I've had (10) are shiny steel at the crowns, no bluing.;

4) Didn't you just prove you don't need it? Sell it and enjoy your double as it was meant to be - naked

5) Verney-Carron said snap caps are fine

6) see my response to 4)

Stay well

Larry, regarding the D.O., please see my question/post under your hunting report. Thanks!

Congrats on your hunt. By the way, I spoke to Recknagle, the maker of the night sight. The bead is only screwed in. I suggested to them that they also be glued. I do have a couple of spares on the way.

DD:

I had no such problem. I could see the red dot at any time. I can assure you that target acquisition was incredibly fast with the DO. I have to wonder if yours in the right place.

Ken:

Thanks. I imagine I have shot my 500 over 300 times. This probably contributed to it coming out. I love that night sight.

Snap Caps can get tired, the "primer" depending on the material can wear.
If the bare metal at the barrels end bothers you try some Cold Blue.
I think that the DO on a double is a great idea as it marries the old and the new, but, it works against everything the Double is about. That is a well fitting gun that comes up like a shotgun, bead in the center of the express sight every time you bring the gun up. (This you should know after your gun fitting session prior to your dove hunt). The DO because of it's height above the rib forces you to raise your head creating a diffulcult cheek weld on the stock. I would rather spend my time and energies improving the front sight either in size or color.
Congrats on your successful hunt thanks for letting us live vicariously through your hunt report.

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:
I just returned from Botswana where I hunted 2 elephants with my V-C 500 NE. I have a number of questions and comments as follows:

1- The 500 NE is bad medicine for elephants.

2- After viewing the video of my first bull, it is astounding just how fast a second shot could be made. I am not exactly an old hand with doubles. The speed at which the second shot was made has made me a believer in doubles.

1) Yes Sir, it is most definitely BAD MEDICINE!!!

2) Yep!

Glad you had a great hunt Larry and glad the VC was everything you hoped. Can't wait to see the video!

Cheers

You seem to have missed the point,no offense,the double rifle is one quick reliable weapon,the DO only makes it better yet,for what it is designed to do...

quote:

Originally posted by Zephyr:
Snap Caps can get tired, the "primer" depending on the material can wear.
If the bare metal at the barrels end bothers you try some Cold Blue.
I think that the DO on a double is a great idea as it marries the old and the new, but, it works against everything the Double is about. That is a well fitting gun that comes up like a shotgun, bead in the center of the express sight every time you bring the gun up. (This you should know after your gun fitting session prior to your dove hunt). The DO because of it's height above the rib forces you to raise your head creating a diffulcult cheek weld on the stock. I would rather spend my time and energies improving the front sight either in size or color.
Congrats on your successful hunt thanks for letting us live vicariously through your hunt report.

Larry

For protection against bluing ware I use paste wax, several coats.

Just like a number of things, doubles are more fun naked until you get too old. Seems you are not there yet! If you loose your night sight again, you could always glue on one of those little blue pills. That should make it stand out.

Congrats, I loved the photos!

Many Thanks

Brett

quote:

Bill73

Bill73 Your right the DO can be quicker, I have one on my AR and have shot them on pistols. IMHO just find them ungainly to look at on a double. Like putting a scope on a rifle with see through mounts the scope is high enough that it makes it diffulcult to point and shoot with ones head so high off of the stock.
I try hard not to fault anyone that can use technology to there benifit but as an earlier post elluded to some of us can be luddites

quote:

If the bare metal at the barrels end bothers you try some Cold Blue.

Larry, assuming the end of the muzzles is what you're talking about, every long gun I've owned over the last five decades was the same like that. It's my sense that nobody blues the barrel ends because muzzle blast would scour it off in short order. Some of us also store long guns with the muzzle pointed down, which would wear away bluing. So, I just wipe down the muzzle ends with oil along with the whole barrel when cleaning guns. And most of the time I don't see rust there.

The only "but" I could see might be based on storage in high moisture, high humidity, real hot conditions.

I once made the mistake of storing some guns there was no room for in the safe, upstairs in an attic crawl space during a very humid Summer when temps were way over a 100. Bottom line is, I just sold an otherwise valuable old Winchester because the barrel was hopelessly rusted by the time I discovered there was a problem.

I've also seen rust develop real fast on a shotgun. The barrel was moist and extremely cold from a Winter duck hunt. Then I made the mistake of putting it in a case and leaving the case by a burning hot wood stove all day. Opened the case and rust spots had already formed.

You really have to watch this sort of thing...

p.s. - you might want to post about this on the gunsmithing forum here.

Brett:

Are you saying that you wax the last several inches of the barrel to protect against wearing the bluing off?

I have used paste wax for protection and storage but you need to be careful, many products have a abrasive in it. You do not want to use any product with a abrasive.

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:
I just returned from Botswana where I hunted 2 elephants with my V-C 500 NE. I have a number of questions and comments as follows:

1- The 500 NE is bad medicine for elephants.

2- After viewing the video of my first bull, it is astounding just how fast a second shot could be made. I am not exactly an old hand with doubles. The speed at which the second shot was made has made me a believer in doubles.

Thanks.

Larry congratulations on the action experienced on you first hunt with you new 500NE VC!
……………………………………………………………...................................

The second shot can be a life saver, or a lost elephant stopper! Though I love a finely made big bore bolt rifle there is no rifle ever made the equals the finely made double rifle for the hunting of dangerous game of the world. As you well know now, the VC is a fine example of the double rifle maker’s art! Like Todd says I can’t wait to see the video! Larry welcome to the DRSS!

Let me add one more comment.

I had JJ put an ivory triangle on the back sight. The point of the triangle touches the bottom of the "V" in the rear sight. I found this immensely helpful in obtaining the proper alignment of the sights.

Larry

Yes, I use paste wax on all external metal. Plan old Johnson's works pretty good. Most recently I have been using Renissance wax, as it does good on wood along with metal, and is easy to remove from checkering.

Duane Wiebe gave me the tip on the Renissance, it is available from Brownells (800) 741 - 0015
(1)can lasts a long time.

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:
ivory triangle on the back sight. The point of the triangle touches the bottom of the "V" in the rear sight.

Hi Larry,
do you have a picture of that set-up? And what prevents the ivory triangle from 'falling-out' under recoil?
Thanks!

PD999:

I assume it is glued in somehow.

If I get time this week, I will take a picture.

Larry,

I would suggest you think about an aperture sight. I have a ghost-ring rear and a red fiber optic front bead.

See:
http://forums.accuratereloadin...831067951#6831067951

and
http://forums.accuratereloadin...831067951#6831067951

and
http://forums.accuratereloadin...261097851#3261097851

I shoot a DO and Burris Fast-fire on a couple of AR's and I like them but the set up on my double is their equal for aging eyes.

Larry,
Welcome back it sounds like you had a great trip.

Rifle familiarity is very important. Larry shot that 500 more the a few times before he used it on eles. There were dead pigs by 500 in Gilchrist Fl.
Being prepared is what it is all about. Your comments are well founded and always enjoyable to read.

Mike

I have subsequently thought of another question or 2.

I have previously posted about my middle finger getting hammered when I pulled the front trigger. When practicing, I put a death grip on the gun. I also improvised a pad that wrapped around the finger. This seemed to work. When I killed my first elephant, I forgot to put the pad on as we left the truck. The shooting happened so fast that I never thought about the death grip on the gun. The end result is a middle finger that remains swollen 10 days later.

My question to the experts is as followed. Would an excessively heavy trigger pull on the front trigger (maybe 8-9 pounds) contribute to this?

Also, I recon that I have shot the gun 300 times. I would guess 200 reduced loads and 100 full power loads. Should I worry about anything loosening up?

Mike, if I remember correctly, I shot that last hog at 74 yards with the night bead. However, the 500 was not big enough to kill those mosquitoes! I am told it is even wetter now with more mosquitoes!

Larry,

If you are banging up your middle finger I think you have a problem with fit of the gun. I've only had one gun that would do that to me and it didn't fit me. Your length of pull is wrong I think. You should not have to death grip your gun. Where are you putting your middle finger when you shoot? It should be behind the trigger guard. The grip shape could also be your problem.

Sam

quote:

Originally posted by srose:
Larry,

If you are banging up your middle finger I think you have a problem with fit of the gun. I've only had one gun that would do that to me and it didn't fit me. Your length of pull is wrong I think. You should not have to death grip your gun. Where are you putting your middle finger when you shoot? It should be behind the trigger guard. The grip shape could also be your problem.

Sam

Sam, I agree. Larry, I remember when you first reported this issue with the middle finger. I still think this is a LOP issue. I think you need to lengthen the LOP a bit. The easiest way to test this theory is with a slip on recoil pad. I still haven't found mine but if I run across it, I'll send it your way.

A too short Length of Pull can cause the middle finger to impact the rear of the trigger guard and it can also cause the trigger finger to impact the rear of the front trigger, when firing the rear trigger. My 500 Merkel used to eat the knuckle on my trigger finger until I added 1" to the LOP.

If it helps any, I used to have the exact same problem with a 12 ga O/U when shooting magnum or heavier than normal loads. The gun had the proper length of pull and weight. But that didn't stop it from leaving my middle finger looking and feeling broken for several days. It was actually black from bruising and I could hardly flex it.

Somewhat a solution was simple. I moved my hand farther aft on the grip and as far from the guard as possible. This meant of course stretching out the trigger finger to the max. But, with your grip curvature I don't know if that's possible or not.

I also tried the "death grip" and it helped but just marginally. There's only so much you can do to keep the gun from shaking loose a bit under heavy recoil. But, in my case it also helped that at the time I was learning to shoot magnum handguns and was working on grip strengthening exercises.

Btw, another O/U 12 ga with roughly the same configuration and dimensions doesn't do that. The only noticeable difference is that it has a soft rubber recoil pad on the stock. The earlier one was just a hard buttplate.

Anyway, it's difficult to tell about this sort of thing...if I were you, I think I'd let one or two others try it and see how it does for them..

Larry you should compare the LOP of your DR to the measurements that you got from Chris Batha when you had your fitting for your shot gun. LOP should be the same, drop should be less as you need to have your head a bit higher to get in to the irons and the cast will depend on the thickness of the stock at your face. But it is a good place to start for LOP. what is the LOP on your VC and what was the LOP that Batha recommended for your shotguns.

quote:

Originally posted by Zephyr:
Larry you should compare the LOP of your DR to the measurements that you got from Chris Batha when you had your fitting for your shot gun. LOP should be the same

Zephyr, the Benelli is a single trigger. The V-C is a double trigger. LOP will NOT be the same.

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:... heavy trigger pull on the front trigger (maybe 8-9 pounds) contribute to this?

Also, I recon that I have shot the gun 300 times. I would guess 200 reduced loads and 100 full power loads. Should I worry about anything loosening up?

Larry, when you have the time between hunts, send the gun to Mark Beasland and have him adjust the triggers. Mark is a great guy and a pleasure to deal with! He recently did a great job on my V-C .577. Don-t worry for one moment about loosening up your V-C. Another couple thousand rounds and it will "begin" to break in.

http://www.mbabllc.com/page/page/7927803.htm

quote:

Originally posted by DoubleDon:

quote:

Originally posted by Zephyr:
Larry you should compare the LOP of your DR to the measurements that you got from Chris Batha when you had your fitting for your shot gun. LOP should be the same

Zephyr, the Benelli is a single trigger. The V-C is a double trigger. LOP will NOT be the same.

LOP to front trigger should be pretty close

Larry, is the middle finger issue worse when shooting the rear trigger than the front?

Todd:

No. Not a problem at all with the rear trigger. It is the front trigger only.

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:
Todd:

No. Not a problem at all with the rear trigger. It is the front trigger only.

Interesting Larry. Well ... that makes me think maybe it isn't a LOP issue. Since the LOP is shorter on the rear trigger, but you are only experiencing this on the front trigger, I think we need to dig deeper for an explanation.

BTW, I got the brass today. Thanks again. Next time I set up for loading the 500, I'll load some more Trail Boss for you!

Not to hijack the thread but how has the trail boss been working what percentage of case fill did you settle on

Todd:

I tend to think it is caused by several reasons as follows:

1- Relatively heavy trigger pull in the front (some ridiculous number like 7 or 9 pounds, I forget)

2- Hand size

3- Relatively heavy recoil

I am sending the gun to JJ today to have the triggers adjusted.

quote:

Originally posted by Zephyr:
Not to hijack the thread but how has the trail boss been working what percentage of case fill did you settle on

I'm using 70% which is the starting load. Make sure not to compress it.

My Heym used to bang my finger up pretty good,it is a 470 and weighs in about 9 1/2 lbs,it was only while firing the right barrel,the back trigger was no problem,what cured it for me was pulling the gun tighter into my shoulder and minimizing the backwards movement of the gun under recoil,now I use the same hold on all my DR's including a 9 lbs 458 lott and my finger is fine.

quote:

Originally posted by Bill73:
My Heym used to bang my finger up pretty good,it is a 470 and weighs in about 9 1/2 lbs,it was only while firing the right barrel,the back trigger was no problem,what cured it for me was pulling the gun tighter into my shoulder and minimizing the backwards movement of the gun under recoil,now I use the same hold on all my DR's including a 9 lbs 458 lott and my finger is fine.

This was exactly my experience as well with my heym 470 which was my first double. Once I practiced more with the double I have not had the problem since. Carry over my same dimensions to my 577 heym and I have never had the problem now that my technique has improved.

Hi Larry
Below how I hold my VC round body 500 NE.

I never have any trouble with my finger. As Bill and Mac I always pull the gun tight into my shoulder.

First trigger from right

Second trigger from right



First trigger from left;




Good hunting

CF