The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Double Rifles .450/.400Go | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
| .450/.400 | Login/Join |
| One of Us |
In your opinion is the .450/.400 adequate for dangerous game? Would you feel under gunned with a nice double chambered in .450/.400 in the pursuit of cape buffalo? What about elephant? | ||
|
| one of us |
I think it is an excellent choice for someone who wants to shoot DG, practice with it often, and quite affordably, for other animals they may want to hunt also. I just carried my Ruger No. 1 in 450/400 for a week in Zimbabwe and was confident in its performance capabilities. We were in elephants every day, and I did carry solids in my wristband holder (just in case). While I did shoot my buffalo and elephant with my 416 Ruger, I had no qualms about using the backup 450/400 if some thing had "gone south" on the bolt gun. | |||
|
| one of us |
I have used a 450/400 for cape buff, bull elephant and lion. My wife used it for her cape buff as well. I have shot all manner of other game with it as well, search my previous posts. It is a most excellent calibre. DOUBLE RIFLE SHOOTERS SOCIETY | |||
|
| One of Us |
I feel so undergunned with a 450/400 that it's my "big gun".......  After 20 years in Africa, I still could not convince myself that I needed something that would mash my shoulder if I tried to shoot more than a few rounds through it, no matter the mystique. Granted, I'm not here to stop other peoples' mistakes, and I tend to be very careful about not making mistakes myself. But still, in a tight spot I'd rather have a rifle I'm fully confident and comfortable with than a hand cannon that I don't really like shooting anyway. From the number of 450/400 that seem to have been picked off the shelves since its reintroduction, it looks like it's just at the right spot for many. Philip | |||
|
one of us |
No. A few years ago they were going for about $5K. Now they're 4 and 5 times that. If you had a whole closet full of them .....
You're kidding, right? I've only known one PH that used one, or anything as little as the 450/400. But you could hunt a long time with one and not know it isn't an elephant gun. That should stir up some of the troops.  ------------------------------- Will Stewart / Once you've been amongst them, there is no such thing as too much gun. --------------------------------------- and, God Bless John Wayne. NRA Benefactor Member, GOA, N.A.G.R. _________________________ "Elephant and Elephant Guns" $99 shipped “Hunting Africa's Dangerous Game" $20 shipped. red.dirt.elephant@gmail.com _________________________ Hoping to wind up where elephant hunters go. | |||
|
One of Us |
I figure why even fool with a 450/400 when you can get a .500/.416? Dave DRSS Chapuis 9.3X74 Chapuis "Jungle" .375 FL Krieghoff 500/.416 NE Krieghoff 500 NE "Git as close as y can laddie an then git ten yards closer" "If the biggest, baddest animals on the planet are on the menu, and you'd rather pay a taxidermist than a mortician, consider the 500 NE as the last word in life insurance." Hornady Handbook of Cartridge Reloading (8th Edition). | |||
|
one of us |
The 450/400NE rifles will take care of business, if you do your part, but then that goes for almost any chambering .400 cal or over! Here is my sugestion, if the 450/400NE double is what you want, don't let anyone talk you out of haveing one. It is not the tiny littl do-nothing tha some say it is, but it is not the best choice for elephant hunting, but that certainly doesn't mean it is not capable of takeing ele, because it is. Most hunters today will never shoot elephant anyway, and for any of the rest big FOUR (RHINO is out IMO), it will do a yoman's job! ....Mac >>>===(x)===> MacD37, ...and DUGABOY1 DRSS Charter member "If I die today, I've had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"~ME 1982 Hands of Old Elmer Keith  | |||
|
| One of Us |
You should watch Craig Boddington's video on ele (he's using a 450-400 on a lot of the hunts) and watch the reaction of bull ele's with frontal brain shots then you decide. On side brain shots OK but frontal brain shots even if you shoot straight, not for me, I'd feel more comfortable with a 375. If ele's are on the menu I'd go with a 450 which will weigh the same as a 450-400 in most makes of DR's. "An individual with experience is never at the mercies of an individual with an argument" | |||
|
| One of Us |
At least an honest admission of the motive for your post. However, it's the only statement of any probative value in it. ---------------------------------------- "Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder." | |||
|
| One of Us |
From a source more experienced than anyone here:
The more things change the more things stay the same. ----------------------------------- "Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder." | |||
|
| One of Us |
Because it has the disadvantage of recoil in the .450/.470 group without the perceived advantages of the .450/.470 group - increased bullet diameter and weight - so it gets passed over. ------------------------------------- "Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder." | |||
|
| one of us |
You tell me about all your elephant experience! ------------------------------- Will Stewart / Once you've been amongst them, there is no such thing as too much gun. --------------------------------------- and, God Bless John Wayne. NRA Benefactor Member, GOA, N.A.G.R. _________________________ "Elephant and Elephant Guns" $99 shipped “Hunting Africa's Dangerous Game" $20 shipped. red.dirt.elephant@gmail.com _________________________ Hoping to wind up where elephant hunters go. | |||
|
One of Us |
Will, Could you please tell us about your experience with the 400 Jeffery on elephants? Rusty We Band of Brothers! DRSS, NRA & SCI Life Member "I am rejoiced at my fate. Do not be uneasy about me, for I am with my friends." ----- David Crockett in his last letter (to his children), January 9th, 1836 "I will never forsake Texas and her cause. I am her son." ----- Jose Antonio Navarro, from Mexican Prison in 1841 "for I have sworn upon the altar of god eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man." Thomas Jefferson Declaration of Arbroath April 6, 1320-“. . .It is not for glory, nor riches, nor honours that we are fighting, but for freedom - for that alone, which no honest man gives up but with life itself.” | |||
|
| One of Us |
Here is what Hornady says on their page about their .450/.400 load: Loaded with either a 400 gr. RN expanding bullet or FMJ-RN Solid, the NEW Hornady 450/400 NE 3" cartridges are perfect for modern single-shot rifles and the ideal ammo for hippo, buffalo and other thick-skinned game. Great pains were taken to ensure that this ammunition will regulate in double rifles. http://www.hornady.com/story.php?s=483 Funny but they don't seem to mention Ele unless Ele is the unmentioned "other thick skinned game." When the buffalo are gone we will hunt mice, for we are hunters, and we want our freedom---Sitting Bull .470 Chapuis double; 9.3x74R Mathelon triple; 30-06 Winchester O/U | |||
|
| one of us |
Rusty, I don't want to purposely pick on you or any other 450/400 aficionado but I just couldn't recommend one for elephant hunting. If someone wants to use one on elephant, go ahead! Don't need my permission. I have never even shot a 450/400 much less used one hunting. I talk about it in the book I am writing now, so here you go, just for you Rusty. It is just my opinion but honest opinion, FWIW! "It was quite enlightening, and at the same time quite disheartening to realize just how potentially dangerous it is to venture forth into elephant country with a sub-elephant cartridge. If a rather smallish tuskless cow is not overly affected by a near-miss side brain shot from a 9.3x74R cartridge with a 320 gr. solid bullet going about 2300 feet per second, with its corresponding kinetic energy of about 3760 ft-lbs, it is a cartridge that should seriously be considered to be left at home! Similarly, a 400 gr. bullet at 2125 feet per second from a 450/400 NE rifle gives more bullet momentum and a bullet energy of about 4010 ft-lbs, which is a shade better than the 9.3x74R cartridge. But if you drop the bullet muzzle velocity to the more typical 2000 feet per second (even less in some cases) the bullet energy drops down to about 3550 ft-lbs. That is less than the typical 375 H&H round of 4300 ft-lbs and a whopping 200 ft-lbs less than a 9.3x74R cartridge. That is pretty scary. Now I don’t want to imply that a 450/400 NE bullet (or the similar 404 Jeffery round) will not knock down or knock out an elephant because I know a PH that has done it, but it is just too borderline as an elephant cartridge for me to take it seriously. Buffalo? Sure, it is good enough, just as the 375 H&H round is good enough. The current popularity of the 450/400 NE in both the three inch and the three and a quarter inch versions is not from the fact that they are some sort of great elephant killers but that they are mild cartridges to shoot with their relatively mild recoil. When shot out of a ten or eleven pound double rifle they are simply not a seriously recoiling cartridge. There are even some double rifles around chambered for the 450/500 NE that weigh in at twelve pounds. If I was to lug around that much baggage, and I wouldn’t under any circumstances, it might as well be at least a double rifle in 500 NE, which is a serious elephant hunting cartridge. John Taylor, in his famous book, African Rifles and Cartridges, highly praised the 450/400 cartridge. It is one of the few gospels of Taylor about which I disagree. Granted I have no first hand experience with the 450/400 cartridge but physics is physics after all, and the cartridge just lacks the energy that a hundred years of field experience has taught us about needing 5000 ft-lbs. The greater bullet diameter and bullet momentum of the 400 gr. bullet from a 450/400 NE or the 404 Jeffery helps outshine the 9.3x74R cartridge as reflected in Taylor’s Knock Out values, but they still fall well short of the required 5000 ft-lbs of bullet muzzle energy. I know that any disparaging talk about the 450/400 NE cartridges will bring the ire of their owners but that is just the way I see it, and even Taylor might have been sensitive to potentially alienating so many of the then existing 450/400 NE rifle owners." Copyrighted, BTW! ------------------------------- Will Stewart / Once you've been amongst them, there is no such thing as too much gun. --------------------------------------- and, God Bless John Wayne. NRA Benefactor Member, GOA, N.A.G.R. _________________________ "Elephant and Elephant Guns" $99 shipped “Hunting Africa's Dangerous Game" $20 shipped. red.dirt.elephant@gmail.com _________________________ Hoping to wind up where elephant hunters go. | |||
|
| One of Us |
Mac, I take two loads to hunt (I know that's taboo with some folk but you cannot mistake the two) with 450 grain woodies recoil wise they have a 450/400's recoil which work extremely well with all critters except ele's. In fact BigBBear just got back from an ele, lion, buff hunt (read his post under hunting reports) and shot the buff with the load I just mentioned and got full penetration to the skin on the far side. So, the 500 can become very versitile with the above load making it as though you have a 500 and a 450/400. The 450/400 is a great buff caliber, maybe the best but it's nice to have the hammer of Thor when you need it. "An individual with experience is never at the mercies of an individual with an argument" | |||
|
| one of us |
Dirk Do your 450gr loads hit the same place as your 570gr loads? DOUBLE RIFLE SHOOTERS SOCIETY | |||
|
| One of Us |
Why take two loads which can get confusing when you can take two guns. When I went for Buff and Ele I took Boddington's advice and took a .375 bolt action and my .470 double. With trackers and game scouts there is always someone to carry the second rifle. When the buffalo are gone we will hunt mice, for we are hunters, and we want our freedom---Sitting Bull .470 Chapuis double; 9.3x74R Mathelon triple; 30-06 Winchester O/U | |||
|
| One of Us |
NE 450 #2, they shoot ragged holes with the 570's, 450's at 1960fps and 570's at 2090fps. At a 100 yds using the fixed rear site blade the 450's shoot two inches low three inch groups, I know it's more accurate than that but with 53yr old eyes and 4mm bead that's as good as it gets. BigBBear has a Heym 500 and I reloaded rounds for him and they shoot the same in his rifle. "An individual with experience is never at the mercies of an individual with an argument" | |||
|
| One of Us |
My wife or son's 375 is taking up the other space in the gun case. "An individual with experience is never at the mercies of an individual with an argument" | |||
|
| one of us |
Dirk My Theory is, as long as your different loads hit close enough together to use the same aiming point, and the hunter knows which load to put in the chamber when, then different loads are not a problem. DOUBLE RIFLE SHOOTERS SOCIETY | |||
|
| one of us |
Will, I can't wait for your new book to be published, and I want a copy as soon as it is in print! I didn't agree with everything in your first book, and I'm quite sure I won’t agree with everything in your new book about double rifles either. That being said, I enjoyed your first book, and have read it a few times over, and will likely read your new one over and over again as well! In responce to the copyrighted post above, I have to agree that if the only thing you want to hunt is Elephant, then the 450/400NE 3" is not the rifle for you. I think everyone knows that without being told over and over by folks that have minds that are lockstep on the trail of only one animal, that being elephant, the 450/400NE 3" is certainly not for you! If like a large percentage of Safari hunters, who will never shoot even one elephant, and the main focus of most of us is the old cape buffalo, and for that and almost every thing else other than elephant the 450/400NE 3" double rifle is a dream rifle to carry on the trail of Mbogo, or Brown bear, or Eland, or just about everything the world has to offer, and in the end will kill an elephant quite handily, if needed for that use in a pinch! As you say it makes no difference what you choose, there will always be those who disagree with your choice. That is not bad, and is actually a good thing, because it makes folks think about things they may not have thought of otherwise. That to me is the value in these forums. get the view from all sides, and decide for yourself!  By the way, very well written post above! Congratulations!  ....Mac >>>===(x)===> MacD37, ...and DUGABOY1 DRSS Charter member "If I die today, I've had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"~ME 1982 Hands of Old Elmer Keith | |||
|
| One of Us |
Thanks, Will! Rusty We Band of Brothers! DRSS, NRA & SCI Life Member "I am rejoiced at my fate. Do not be uneasy about me, for I am with my friends." ----- David Crockett in his last letter (to his children), January 9th, 1836 "I will never forsake Texas and her cause. I am her son." ----- Jose Antonio Navarro, from Mexican Prison in 1841 "for I have sworn upon the altar of god eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man." Thomas Jefferson Declaration of Arbroath April 6, 1320-“. . .It is not for glory, nor riches, nor honours that we are fighting, but for freedom - for that alone, which no honest man gives up but with life itself.” | |||
|
| One of Us |
Taylor had no qualms about using the 450/400 on elephant even in the thickest of jesse. He covers the discussions on the power of the 450/400 in detail in his bookAfrican Rifles and Cartridges. He relates several instances where he was able to stop charging or stampeding elephants when using one. Included was a an instance where he was nearly run over by two elephants that were stampeding toward him. Both were knocked down by head shots that missed the brain and he was able to finish them off after having time to reload before they regained their feet. He summed it up by saying that you could count on the 450/400 to knock an elephant down on a head shot that missed close to the brain but said to chose a larger caliber if you didn't have confidence to put your bullet in the right place. He thought it was better suited to the experienced hunter. I have never used one myself but was there when my PH Gomez Adams knocked down a charging cow at 6 paces with a 450/400 3 1/4" WR double. That bullet missed the brain but still floored her. We found that 400 grain Woodleigh half way back in the neck. It showed the knock down and penetration ability just as Taylor said it would. Personally, I will play the odds and take a little bigger stick in the jesse. 465H&H | |||
|
One of Us |
:::SIGH::: You guys are confusing me! "To 450/400 or to not 450/400"!!! Now I'm not so sure, but then again, I'm easily confused. Maybe I ought to stick with my 416 Rigby bolt and call it a day! jorge USN (ret) DRSS Verney-Carron 450NE Cogswell & Harrison 375 Fl NE Sabatti Big Five 375 FL Magnum NE DSC Life Member NRA Life Member | |||
|
| One of Us |
I watched a PH on TV shoot a big bull right in the center of his forehead with a .577. He must have missed the brain because while it turned the bull, it did not even come close to "knocking him down". I love reading Taylor as much as the next guy but frankly, I think his theories about "knockdown" are, shall we say, overstated. I will defer to you guys with more experience but I am beginning to believe that if you miss the brain, you can't really count on a knockdown even with a .500. Whether you get a knockdown or not is more a matter of luck. The 450/400 is a great gun. If I had one, I wouldn't be trading it but the real question is if you are buying a new gun, why in heaven's name would you pick a 450/400 over a .500/.416? Sure the .500/.416 has a bit more recoil but in a 10.5 pound gun it is surely nothing that would bother the average hunter. The .500/.416 is modern version of the 450/400. It shoots like a .450/400 but hits like a .470. It's like comparing a .404 Jeffery to a .416 Rigby if both are loaded in their traditional guise. The .404 is indeed a great cartridge but the Rigby is just better. Proponents of the 450/400 always tout its' mild recoil and that is indeed correct but if recoil alone is to determine your cartridge selection, then perhaps the 9.3X74 would be a better choice. Dave DRSS Chapuis 9.3X74 Chapuis "Jungle" .375 FL Krieghoff 500/.416 NE Krieghoff 500 NE "Git as close as y can laddie an then git ten yards closer" "If the biggest, baddest animals on the planet are on the menu, and you'd rather pay a taxidermist than a mortician, consider the 500 NE as the last word in life insurance." Hornady Handbook of Cartridge Reloading (8th Edition). | |||
|
| One of Us |
because I can't stand that hideous cocking lever on the Krieghoffs. jorge USN (ret) DRSS Verney-Carron 450NE Cogswell & Harrison 375 Fl NE Sabatti Big Five 375 FL Magnum NE DSC Life Member NRA Life Member | |||
|
| One of Us |
Jorge: Then buy a Heym or a Searcy. They will both chamber a .500/.416 for you. Dave DRSS Chapuis 9.3X74 Chapuis "Jungle" .375 FL Krieghoff 500/.416 NE Krieghoff 500 NE "Git as close as y can laddie an then git ten yards closer" "If the biggest, baddest animals on the planet are on the menu, and you'd rather pay a taxidermist than a mortician, consider the 500 NE as the last word in life insurance." Hornady Handbook of Cartridge Reloading (8th Edition). | |||
|
| One of Us |
Jorge, Just find or have a 450/400 3 inch built. You will enjoy shooting it and you will be happy with the way it shoots. Rusty We Band of Brothers! DRSS, NRA & SCI Life Member "I am rejoiced at my fate. Do not be uneasy about me, for I am with my friends." ----- David Crockett in his last letter (to his children), January 9th, 1836 "I will never forsake Texas and her cause. I am her son." ----- Jose Antonio Navarro, from Mexican Prison in 1841 "for I have sworn upon the altar of god eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man." Thomas Jefferson Declaration of Arbroath April 6, 1320-“. . .It is not for glory, nor riches, nor honours that we are fighting, but for freedom - for that alone, which no honest man gives up but with life itself.” | |||
|
| One of Us |
And have something like this installed....  Philip | |||
|
| one of us |
Knocking down or knocking out elephants with missed brain shots happens with great regularity, especially with cows. But isn't ever gauranteed. The larger the bullet, the better the chances, so history proves, but never gauranteed. It is not accurate to say a 416R or 416/500 hits like a 450 or better, its not throwing the bullets weight nor the diameter. Buzz Charlton, who sees amny elephants shot, and shoots a fair number himself, also doesn't think the 416 equals the larger bores - and he uses a 416. BTW, see the thread under his name in the Hunting Reports forum where he fails to stop a COW elephant with his 416! An observer was pinned by the cow, using her head while trying to tusk him, and the observers ribs broken and a lung punctered and collapsed, but he survived and recovered well - very, very lucky. JPK  Free 500grains | |||
|
One of Us |
While it is not aesthetically pleasing, I came to like mine very well. If you take the mechanism forward as you raise the rifle( like pushing the safety on a SxS quail gun) it becomes second nature . You are at a mechanical disadvantage if you attempt you attempt to engage the mechanism at the shoulder.
Don't be confused, the 450/400 is a dandy , and is IMHO the largest DR you need on almost all hunts; unless you are the designated backup, then ,I'd go larger. DuggaBoye-O NRA-Life Whittington-Life TSRA-Life DRSS DSC HSC SCI | |||
|
| One of Us |
Me too! Once you get used to the cocking mechanism on the Krieghoff (or the Blaser) it becomes second nature and it is indeed safer than a traditional safety. Dave DRSS Chapuis 9.3X74 Chapuis "Jungle" .375 FL Krieghoff 500/.416 NE Krieghoff 500 NE "Git as close as y can laddie an then git ten yards closer" "If the biggest, baddest animals on the planet are on the menu, and you'd rather pay a taxidermist than a mortician, consider the 500 NE as the last word in life insurance." Hornady Handbook of Cartridge Reloading (8th Edition). | |||
|
| one of us |
The Blaser, and the Krieghoff systems are zebras of a very different stripes! K-gun "YES", Blaser "ABSOLUTELY NO!" You load your Blaser it is automaticlly on "safe" (ACTUALLY UN-COCKED). That part is good, if you are only starting out on the hunt the rifle is safe to carry fully loaded. However, you get ready for a conforntation, you slide the cocking lever forward to cock the rifle. That system is not good if you cock the rifle fire one or two shots, and don't get the job done. Say you fire one shot and break to reload that barrel, the rifle has un-cocked it's self automaticlly, because you opened it. That is still good if that one shot was all that was needed, but not so good if you need a quick second, and third shot after closeing, with little time to think much less fiddle with buttons. You have fired one shot and re-charged that barrel, because you opened the rifle you must re-cock the rifle before you can shoot again. Now you fire both barrels and break to re-load the rifle, close it, and it must be re-cocked again, and every time you open the rifle for any reason you must re-cock the rifle again. The Blaser has no facility that recocks the rifle on opening after fireing. This is not good in a close encounter of the desperate kind. A double rifle that has an automatic safety, is bad enough, but one that not only automaticlly puts the rifle on SAFE, but actually un-cocks the rifle on opening rather than cocking it is not a system that is conducive to long life when hunting things tha try thier very best to kill you if you poke a hole in him that doesn't get the job done. Any rifle of any type, not just a double rifle that not only places the rifle on "SAFE" if opened for any reason,and not only doesn't recock it's self when opened, but actually un-cocks the rifle,is no better than a bolt action the re-sets the safety every time the bolt is worked. This is not a system one would want for a serious DGR. The K-gun system is OK because after making the rifle ready to fire, if the rifle is opened for any reason it not only does not un-cock the rifle, but if it has been fired it re-cocks it's self, and is ready to fire on closing. Nothing must be done in that sittuation but pull the triggers. If you want it to be on "safe" you push the button forward slightly and release relieving the striker springs, and it is safe now to carry fully loaded, but the choices is your's not the rifle's! Any hidden hammer rifle that doesn't re-cock it's self on openong is a mauling waithing to happen. Gentlemen Mr. Bush thinks that I am ragging on him personally, and that is not the case. I agree with him on the K-gun's system, and my comments are not aimed at Mr. Bush, but at that abortion from Blaser. It is not only ugly, which doesn't matter in a fight with a cape buffalo, or a lion that is determined to take revenge, but the auto de-cocking system does matter quite a lot. My purpose in these posts are to let folks that are not aware of the difference between the Krieghoff, and the Blaser systems be made aware of ithat difference. The difference is the K-gun is a DGR, the Blaser is not regardless of chambering! ........................  ...............  ....Mac >>>===(x)===> MacD37, ...and DUGABOY1 DRSS Charter member "If I die today, I've had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"~ME 1982 Hands of Old Elmer Keith | |||
|
| One of Us |
didn't know the 500/416 was available in a Heym or Searcy. I dunno men, I sort of like the traditional Brit cartridges. Now that I'll be able to afford one, I'm going to take my time. Leaning towards a 450 or a 450 #2. Thoughts? jorge USN (ret) DRSS Verney-Carron 450NE Cogswell & Harrison 375 Fl NE Sabatti Big Five 375 FL Magnum NE DSC Life Member NRA Life Member | |||
|
| one of us |
jorge Answer these questions for me. How many Bull elephant do you think you will shoot. How many Cow elephants do you think you will shoot. I know you have shot a 416 Rigby,what do you think of its recoil? Have you shot a 458 Win or a 458 Lott, or any of the 500 rifles? If so, what do you think of the recoil? Do you want to scope and/or red dot your double? DOUBLE RIFLE SHOOTERS SOCIETY | |||
|
| One of Us |
probably not How's that? jorge USN (ret) DRSS Verney-Carron 450NE Cogswell & Harrison 375 Fl NE Sabatti Big Five 375 FL Magnum NE DSC Life Member NRA Life Member | |||
|
| one of us |
jorge Thanks for those answers, now a few more questions. How much will you use your double for other hunts. pigs and deer out of a blind? Black Bear over bait? Walking/spot and stalk, type hunts for pigs, elk? Would you take your double to Alaska for brown bear? DOUBLE RIFLE SHOOTERS SOCIETY | |||
|
| One of Us |
I don't think so, I'd prefer my 375 or 340 To me a double, aside from the "pucker factor" is primarily a weapon for Africa. Frankly if I try to justify it on hunting merit alone, I'd never get one. I think my scoped 416 can do anything better than any double, and i'd have no problem using it on elephant. So to be honest, a double is just something I've always wanted, plain and simple. jorge USN (ret) DRSS Verney-Carron 450NE Cogswell & Harrison 375 Fl NE Sabatti Big Five 375 FL Magnum NE DSC Life Member NRA Life Member | |||
|
| one of us |
That's all the reason you need Jorge! Get one, and be happy! ....Mac >>>===(x)===> MacD37, ...and DUGABOY1 DRSS Charter member "If I die today, I've had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"~ME 1982 Hands of Old Elmer Keith | |||
|
| Powered by Social Strata | Page 1 2 3 |
 | Please Wait. Your request is being processed... |
|
Visit our on-line store for AR Memorabilia