The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Double Rifles *9/6/24 UPDATE* MADE PARADOX CRIMP TOOL #71 FOR ANOTHER 8 GAGo | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
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** ***6/17/24 UPDATE* MADE PARADOX CRIMP TOOL #69 FOR ANOTHER 12 GA - THOMAS BLAND & SON "EUOPLIA" 6912 ALSO TAKE A LOOK AT THESE POSTS IN THE CLASSIFIED SECTION ABOUT MY MAKING A CUSTOM PARADOX CRIMPING TOOL http://forums.accuratereloadin...2711043/m/4541057552 THANKS TO ALL THAT PURCHASED MY CRIMPING TOOLS - YOU HAVE ALL HELPED TO OFFSET THE COST OF THIS GUN ALSO CHECK OUT MY LAST POST ON THIS DISCUSSION ***** Hello All, Not sure where to list this - Double Rifles, or Combination Guns. So, I'll list it in both. I took a gamble on a Paradox Gun in an auction listing, that had a very skimpy description. This picture below was the only information that was listed about the gun. .  . I didn't want to ask too many questions before bidding, because in the past it resulted in the Auction House updating the listing which made it more desirable, and caused the price to shoot up beyond my budget. So, I bit my tongue and took a gamble. The RED background photos are from the auction listing. The others are mine.                 Well, the gamble paid off in spades. I received an absolute MINT condition Paradox Gun, Factory Cased with matching bullet mold, loading tools, and cleaning accessories. Its hard to believe this is 127 years old. Here's the specs: 28" Barrels - 13-7/8" LOP - 7 lbs 6 oz - Rebounding Hammers - 2-Leaf Express Sight marked "50" & "100" Rib is marked "The "EUROPLIA" Ball & Shot Gun" - "T. Bland & Sons 430 West Strand London" Barrels marked "A&T" (Adams & Tate - maker) - Birmingham Proofed Matching Bullet Mold - Casts a Conical bullet - 790g RN & 730g HP Misc. Tools, Powder/Shot Measures, Loading Tube/Rammer/Decapper, Capper, & Wad Punch What's really amazing is the condition. All original finish in nearly 99% condition with full case-color remaining. Bores and chambers appear to be "un-fired". The only defect I could find was a small 1/16" chip off the tip of the toe of the horn butt-plate. My only question is: the end of the cleaning rod handle has a leather washer pinned to its end. What is this for? ... and, does anyone know who Mr. Shields might have been? As always, your comments are welcome.   " .... you never pay too much for something, you only buy it too early .... " How to Hunt Wisconsin Whitetail Deer with a Cannon How to Hunt Feral Cats with a Mortar | ||
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Thanks for sharing. You appears to have done well on that auction. The lotteryticket wasn`t blank afterall  DRSS: HQ Scandinavia. Chapters in Sweden & Norway | |||
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Hi Buck, Now that is a very nice find, and a well played gamble on your part. - Mike | |||
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Nice gun. The tools are almost certainly worth more than the gun. Good buy. | |||
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Hello jens poulsen Thanks for the reply Hello Redstone, Thanks for the reply
Hello jvw375, Thanks for the reply. Yes, the number matching bullet mold with both pins remaining is a real treasure. " .... you never pay too much for something, you only buy it too early .... " How to Hunt Wisconsin Whitetail Deer with a Cannon How to Hunt Feral Cats with a Mortar | |||
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Buck, Nice pick up. I have a Holland Paradox which I have been able to get to shoot very well. What type of rifling does this one have? | |||
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Hello 470Evans' Thanks for the reply. The “rifling” is of a form reminiscent of Charles Lancaster’s oval bore patent, with wide, shallow, “grooves”. They run full length, and the rifling is barely visible as a pattern of light and shadow when the bores are held up to a light. This is typically called "invisible rifling". " .... you never pay too much for something, you only buy it too early .... " How to Hunt Wisconsin Whitetail Deer with a Cannon How to Hunt Feral Cats with a Mortar | |||
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Hello all, Well, I've loaded some ammo for the range test tomorrow. I used the existing loading tools. I saw an interesting crimping method that Eley used for their ball loadings, so I made a tool to replicate that crimping method. It worked great. I opted to use a low pressure smokeless load so as not fowl up the rifle with black powder. Tomorrow I should have some shooting test results.     " .... you never pay too much for something, you only buy it too early .... " How to Hunt Wisconsin Whitetail Deer with a Cannon How to Hunt Feral Cats with a Mortar | |||
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That’s wickedly cool! I meant to be DSC Member...bad typing skills. Marcus Cady DRSS | |||
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Hello DCS Member, Thanks for the reply. Here are the first range results. Not too impressive yet. But not a concern beause velocity for these should be 1000 fps to 1050 fps and and I'm only at 855 fps. Increasing velocity should bring the shots together.  " .... you never pay too much for something, you only buy it too early .... " How to Hunt Wisconsin Whitetail Deer with a Cannon How to Hunt Feral Cats with a Mortar | |||
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Pretty good for the individual barrels. Little more powder and I'll think you'll be happy. Can you post a picture of what the slug looks like as cast? Here are a couple pics of the roll crimper that Jon Millar built for my Paradox. Works great on Win AA hulls but I love the look of your brass. If you ever build another crimper let me know I'd love to have one.   | |||
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Pretty cool rifle. Nice pick up!! | |||
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Beautiful rifle! I also have a crimper from John Millar but would love to have one for Brass cases, soooo I too would love to buy one if you ever make a few! | |||
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my first double was a T Bland... Sure wish I had never sold it. Great maker! If you own a gun and you are not a member of the NRA and other pro 2nd amendment organizations then YOU are part of the problem. | |||
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Hello 470Evans, Thanks for the reply. Here are pictures of the bullets from the mold.  I would be making more of my crimping devices if I could find some of the MEC brass crimp starters. Unfortunately they are long discontinued by MEC. Now they are made of plastic. I've seen some of the brass inserts for sale on eBay, but they go for $25 - $35 each. If I ever find a source, I'll make some and offer them for sale. 
Hello Todd Williams, Thanks for the reply
Hello jaz, Thanks for the reply If I find some of the brass crimp starters, I'll make some.
Hello els, Thanks for the reply " .... you never pay too much for something, you only buy it too early .... " How to Hunt Wisconsin Whitetail Deer with a Cannon How to Hunt Feral Cats with a Mortar | |||
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You and Mr. Cal have way too much fun with the big bore doubles. It must have something to do with the cold you fellows get, whether Alaska or Wisconsin. I meant to be DSC Member...bad typing skills. Marcus Cady DRSS | |||
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Hello DCS Member, Thanks for the reply. When it gets really cold here in Wisconsin, there's nothing much to do but load and shoot. " .... you never pay too much for something, you only buy it too early .... " How to Hunt Wisconsin Whitetail Deer with a Cannon How to Hunt Feral Cats with a Mortar | |||
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Wow. Bold strategy with a great payoff...remind me to never play poker with you  Fascinating once again. If you ever put your collection on display, I would darn sure make the trip and pay admission to see it. | |||
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Hello LongDistaneOperator, Thanks for the reply. I never thought to post that I'm doing a Gun Show this very weekend in Oshkosh, Wisconsin. I've had "all" my doubles and collectable handguns on display since Friday. I'll be here until about 2:00 today, so you'd have to hurry.  " .... you never pay too much for something, you only buy it too early .... " How to Hunt Wisconsin Whitetail Deer with a Cannon How to Hunt Feral Cats with a Mortar | |||
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By the way - For those of you that asked about me making them a PARADOX SHELL CRIMPER .... I bought a crimping star at the Gun Show and made another PARADOX CRIMPER. $150 delivered - PM me.  " .... you never pay too much for something, you only buy it too early .... " How to Hunt Wisconsin Whitetail Deer with a Cannon How to Hunt Feral Cats with a Mortar | |||
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So cool. I hope you show us some game harvested with this old girl. "When the wind stops....start rowing. When the wind starts, get the sail up quick." | |||
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Sorry for the cursing, but holy shit! | |||
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There are good deals around on these things, including hammerless boxlocks. I don’t have the skill to do load it or I would buy one. Well that and they are not buffalo thumping calibers. So cool. Even the names for paradox guns were cool! Europa, explora, etc. | |||
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buckstix, Which other shows are you planning to attend & display your collection? DRSS | |||
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Hello Nakihunter, Thanks for the reply. Now that I've had success with my 700NE, I'll be testing this one, and others, on Wisconsin Whitetail.
Hello Colin Masters, Thanks for the reply. Really, thanks!
Hello Colin Masters, Thanks for the reply. I think you could use this one on buffalo, the U.S. ones. Or the African ones if you got close enough.
Hello Bill73, Thanks for the reply. Next show where I display is Oshkosh, Wisconsin. Feb. 14th - 15th - 16th I don't bring any of my bolt guns, just my doubles and collectable handguns. Except for the A-Square 577 T-Rex .... http://forums.accuratereloadin...431074942#2431074942 .... and the 577-600 JDJ Ruger Safari Custom No.1 http://forums.accuratereloadin...4711043/m/1341088891 " .... you never pay too much for something, you only buy it too early .... " How to Hunt Wisconsin Whitetail Deer with a Cannon How to Hunt Feral Cats with a Mortar | |||
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Wow!  Now that's an impressive collection. You might need to add a sign on your tables that says "Please no drooling on the guns". I could spend the entire day just looking and asking silly questions....  Roger ___________________________ I'm a trophy hunter - until something better comes along. *we band of 45-70ers* | |||
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Interesting crimp tool. I have several brass crimpers from my old shotgun reloading days and may give this a try. I wonder if it could be adapted to screw in a press from the underside of the top plate so the case in a shell holder could be raised into the crimp tool or just used in a MEC press.(?). I could use one in 12 and 10 bore but the brass on my 8s and 4s would be too thick for such a crimp. Good idea, Buck. Cal _______________________________ Cal Pappas, Willow, Alaska www.CalPappas.com www.CalPappas.blogspot.com 1994 Zimbabwe 1997 Zimbabwe 1998 Zimbabwe 1999 Zimbabwe 1999 Namibia, Botswana, Zambia--vacation 2000 Australia 2002 South Africa 2003 South Africa 2003 Zimbabwe 2005 South Africa 2005 Zimbabwe 2006 Tanzania 2006 Zimbabwe--vacation 2007 Zimbabwe--vacation 2008 Zimbabwe 2012 Australia 2013 South Africa 2013 Zimbabwe 2013 Australia 2016 Zimbabwe 2017 Zimbabwe 2018 South Africa 2018 Zimbabwe--vacation 2019 South Africa 2019 Botswana 2019 Zimbabwe vacation 2021 South Africa 2021 South Africa (2nd hunt a month later) ______________________________ | |||
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Hello cal pappas, Thanks for the reply. Mounting into a press really isn't necessary because it takes very little force to crimp the case mouth of the 12ga brass. A smart "smack" with the palm of your hand, or the "tap" of a mallet is all that's required. I plan on annealing the brass every 4 or 5 loadings to prevent splitting. So far, 3 loadings have not seen this happen. I've just sold the tool I made. But I will keep looking for more crimp-starter stars so I can offer more of these to fellow paradox shooters. I just loaded another batch and will be testing them this weekend. This little gizmo really works great. To all the forum readers, PM me if you want to get onto the list for the next one I make.  " .... you never pay too much for something, you only buy it too early .... " How to Hunt Wisconsin Whitetail Deer with a Cannon How to Hunt Feral Cats with a Mortar | |||
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Hello All, Here's the results from the last testing. I tested 5 different wad / card / bullet combinations. Groups measured 2-1/4" to 7" at 50 yards. Here's the best combination tested. Apparently this gun prefers a little harder bullet of 15:1 alloy, (BHN 11) and the heavier 790g Round Nose as compared to the 730g Hollow Point. I'll be testing this load formula again with both HP and RN bullets to make sure the results are repeatable.  " .... you never pay too much for something, you only buy it too early .... " How to Hunt Wisconsin Whitetail Deer with a Cannon How to Hunt Feral Cats with a Mortar | |||
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Man! I love those old ball & shot doubles! I have some old black powder cartridge doubles, but have never been lucky enough to pick up a ball & shot double. This one is a cherry gun IMO! Just handling one of these old jewels makes one think of the old timers who hunted Africa, and India in the late 1800s and early 1900s. Fun guns to hunt with today as well! Congratulations on this find sir! …...…...…………………...……….  ....Mac >>>===(x)===> MacD37, ...and DUGABOY1 DRSS Charter member "If I die today, I've had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"~ME 1982 Hands of Old Elmer Keith  | |||
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Hello MacD37, Thanks for the reply. I watched and bid on half-a-dozen paradox double guns over the last 5 years. All eluded me, being out-bid by others. Finally, I snagged this one and couldn't be happier! I'm having a ball discovering the nuances of loading techniques for this one. I've learned that loading for double rifles is a science onto its own, but these paradox double guns really present a challenge. Next week I'll test if my success can be repeated.  . . . By the way .... I've made 3 more crimping tools. One each in 28gs, 20ga, and 12ga, in case anyone wants one. PM me if interested. . *** ALSO JUST MADE ON IN 410 GAUGE *** . . . " .... you never pay too much for something, you only buy it too early .... " How to Hunt Wisconsin Whitetail Deer with a Cannon How to Hunt Feral Cats with a Mortar | |||
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Not be be a nit picker but technically only guns with Fosberry chokes are Paradox style guns. Paradox and other rifled shotguns, and there are many, are all in the category of Ball and Shotguns. They are proofed with an"R".Many makers switched to Fosberry chokes after the patent ran out, as they were never able to shoot a consistent pattern with shot. | |||
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Hello jaz, Thanks for the reply. You might be correct. Bland didn't use the term "Paradox" in their ad or their Factory letter. " .... you never pay too much for something, you only buy it too early .... " How to Hunt Wisconsin Whitetail Deer with a Cannon How to Hunt Feral Cats with a Mortar | |||
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For those that might be interested, I've been making a few extra crimping tools and offering them for sale in the classified section. Here's the last one I made - the style may vary depending on materials available, but they all work the same. Thanks to all.    " .... you never pay too much for something, you only buy it too early .... " How to Hunt Wisconsin Whitetail Deer with a Cannon How to Hunt Feral Cats with a Mortar | |||
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Very nice! I just need to find a rifle that needs a crimped round... | |||
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What a great find. I am glad it went to a shooter who will use it as it was designed to use and shoot. Well done gamble. I am glad it worked out well. | |||
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Hello mt Al, Thanks for the reply. This will work for crimping brass shells loaded with ball or "shot". You can load brass shells in the old tradition of Holland and Holland. Makes for wonderful display of your shotgun.
Hello clayman216, Thanks for the reply. Yes, a gamble it was, and happier I couldn't be. " .... you never pay too much for something, you only buy it too early .... " How to Hunt Wisconsin Whitetail Deer with a Cannon How to Hunt Feral Cats with a Mortar | |||
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** 10/17/20 UPDATE ** Hello All, I've been adding updates to my classified listing about my crimping tools - see here - http://forums.accuratereloadin...043/m/4541057552/p/2 As can bee seen in the discussion, I've made many crimping tools since my original post last December when I purchased my Paradox gun. I'm glad to have been able to help so many Paradox Gun owners shoot with traditional loadings. Well, I just finished my 25th tool. It was a "4 gauge" for Cal Pappas, to go with his "8 gauge" and "10 gauge" and "12 gauge" tools. He now has a complete set. Believe me, making these tools for the 8 gauge and 4 gauge was a real challenge. I had to design and fabricate a special cell containing a set of 6 crimping wires to form the crimp. Pictured below are tools for 12ga ..... 10ga compaired to 12ga ..... 8ga ..... and 4ga ..... and a picture of the 4 tool set for Cal. as always your comments are welcome. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~  ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~  ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~  ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~  ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~  " .... you never pay too much for something, you only buy it too early .... " How to Hunt Wisconsin Whitetail Deer with a Cannon How to Hunt Feral Cats with a Mortar | |||
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Fabulous! Beautiful condition and all the accessories! I had a WR Explora in the ‘80’s I do regret selling. Different Reloading large bores in those days. But to buy with all the accessories that is great. A friend hunted In Africa with his paradox (wasn’t a H&H but I use the generic term) and bagged some plains game out to about 90m IIRC. DRSS | |||
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Hello Rockdoc, Thanks for the repky. Yes, I was really lucky finding this one. I looked for over 5 years to find a Paradox gun. Its a real hoot to shoot, and I plan to take it hunting for Wisconsin Whitetails this Fall. And better yet, if I can sell a few more of my Custom Paradox Crimping Tools, I'll have recovered my purchase price. Wish me luck. .... and now ..... I'm just finishing the 30th Paradox Crimping Tool ... its for another 8 gauge. AND NOW ... TOOL NUMBER 30 FOR ANOTHER 8 GAUGE  " .... you never pay too much for something, you only buy it too early .... " How to Hunt Wisconsin Whitetail Deer with a Cannon How to Hunt Feral Cats with a Mortar | |||
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The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Double Rifles *9/6/24 UPDATE* MADE PARADOX CRIMP TOOL #71 FOR ANOTHER 8 GA
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