I am lowering my sights a bit and looking at above caliber guns. For what I will in reality be shooting in my life time a 30 cal double may be a good starting point. I have taken WT with 30-06 and it will suffice on hogs. I have no experience
with the 375 H+H. Both calibers are thousands less than the 40 Nitros in a top quality gun and ammo is easier to digest financially.What can anyone tell me about the the 2 calibers in a DG. Thanks all.

.303 British would be the ticket in my opinion.

A wide variety of loads, near 30-06 perfolrmance and it's classic. Ammo is cheap, it's everywhere and it's rimmed.

I have 2 Mekels SXS's, one in 375 the other in 30-06. The 30-06 feels like a 22lr compared to the 375. The 375 is a safari grade so it has the double triggers manual safety after close of action and iron sights with extractors. The 30-06 is a single trigger with auto safety and requires recoil of first barrel to set up second barrel (prevent doubling)It has ejectors.
I opted for the 30-06 for the availability of ammo and components which was my choice on the 375 also
I have several rifles in each of these calibers and If I only could have two rifles these would be it, plus trajectory of both are similar
The only issues with SXS that must be considered is some only like certain loads and Long range shooting is generally reserved for the single barrels both mind shoot OK out to 100 yards but I haven't really tried them any farther since the range I use only has a 100yd

Lilguy, if moving down to a 30 caliber in a DR is an attempt to save money, you might be better off with a more typical caliber. Most makers chamber for the bigger rounds, and smaller calibers may be specialty rifles or higher grades. How about a 9.3x74R? They're made by most all of the major DR makers, and sell for less than the bigger calibers. Great all-around caliber too.

I agree with Biebs, take a look at the 9,3x74R.

It is a great calibre for a double.

A .300 H&H flanged for going vintage, or a .30Blaser for an update. Regardless of what..don`t go rimless.

My last double was a very unique little Merkel in 8x57R. It was on the 28ga frame size and really a super gun. Have no idea if it is still available or really ever was in the normal chain of supply. It DID NOT have the adjustable barrels but conventional soldered wedge regulation. It shot absolutely minute and I mean MYNUTE not MINNIT groups. I put MAK mounts and a Leupold 1.5x5 VXIII on it. If I could have figured a use for it I would have kept it.

9.3x74R. You will never look back!!

I usually agree with all the experts on the preference of rimmed cartridges, but not necessarily so in non dangerous game cartridges.

I know that the purists (and I consider myself one) would contend that the possibility of an ejector or extractor failure in a belted cartridge could be fatal, I am not aware of a single instance in a Merkel DR where that has happened, whether it be the .416 Rigby, .375H&H, or the .30-06.

I have personally shot all 3 calibers in a Merkel double rifle, and never once has the ejectors or extractors failed.

I have also shot a Heym 88B in .375H&H belted without a single failure with ejection.

Give me an example of a belted cartridge in a double rifle that has failed to eject, and I am sure I can find an example of a rimmed cartridge that has failed to eject in a double rifle.

Heym and Merkel, and others, have gotten so good with their ejectors for belted cartridges that it has made the issue more folklore that fact.

Would I prefer a rimmed cartridge over a belted? Yes. Would it stop me from buying/owning a belted cartridge? Absolutely Not.

And in a non-dangerous game cartridge, the issue is mute. It has been proven by lots of manufacturers from Chapuis, Merkel, Heym, H&H, Austrian Makers, and many others.

Technology is so much better today that in the days of Ruark, Roosevelt, Finch-Hatten, etc. It's time to take a new look at innovation, to include fibre optic sights, ghost rings, etc., that would have never been considered conventional years ago.

I don't like the Kreighoff safety or the Blaser action in double rifles, but I'm sure others can find advantanges to them.

Belted cartridges in a non-dangerous game gun is absoululety OK. Why not have a double rifle in .30-06. The most popular and available round in the world.

And Mac, I know you'll tell me that the percentages are against me. And you're right. I just like a North American double rifle in .375H&H belted or .30-06, they just make sense.

Mike

Lilguy,

I'd not worry at all if firing at non-
DG with a 30-06 double.

http://griffinhowe.com/riflemoreinfo.cfm
Once on this site go to the used rifles
section; click on the button to organize
the list by rifle TYPE; then scroll down &
see a lot of doubles; O/U and SxS. Make
sure you look through the whole list!

Have you decided on a price ceiling?

quote:

I am sure I can find an example of a rimmed cartridge that has failed to eject in a double rifle.Mike

Please educate us.

quote:

Originally posted by DoubleDon:

quote:

I am sure I can find an example of a rimmed cartridge that has failed to eject in a double rifle.Mike

Please educate us.

I've had a rimmed 500NE fail to eject. God knows how but the rim
jumped the ejector.

Only once but I wondered.


I have Belted DR's as well so not buying into this discussion.

.

quote:

Originally posted by 500N:I've had a rimmed 500NE fail to eject. God knows how but the rim
jumped the ejector.

Never heard of that before. Thus, I stand corrected. Don't know how that could have possibly happened unless there was play (wear) in the ejector.

If I were going to build a DR in this class...I would build a .348 WCF.

I am in love with the Merkel at Cabelas but 10 grand is just to much at this time. 7000.00 is
about my limit. Retail around here you need to add 10% sales tax.I'll keep fishing, Thanks all.

quote:

Originally posted by DoubleDon:

Never heard of that before. Thus, I stand corrected. Don't know how that could have possibly happened unless there was play (wear) in the ejector.

Nor do I but I wasn't too worried.

One day I might play around with it to see what the go is.

It could have been a slightly smaller Rim.

quote:

Originally posted by Lilguy:
I am in love with the Merkel at Cabelas but 10 grand is just to much at this time. 7000.00 is
about my limit. Retail around here you need to add 10% sales tax.I'll keep fishing, Thanks all.

Look at the Chapuis in 9.3x74R. You should be able to find a gently used one in near mint condition in today's market for under $5,000. Ammunition is not too hard to find and generally priced competitively with the good domestic "premium" calibers (I pay less then I do for 300WSM and 300RUM for example). If you reload, it gets even cheaper if you are into high round counts.

If your shots aren't that long (i.e. not a 300 yard bolt action shot), the 9.3x74R has all the range you need and all the power needed for North America. Mine is destined for use against hogs in the near term in this bad economy. However, if/when I go to Alaska I want something more for bears so I see a 450/400NE in my future (I actually own a Ruger #1 in this caliber). On the flip side, since a 9.3x74R is legal in some parts of Africa for dangerous game it's probably enough for Alaska too but I really want to scratch that itch.

A 45-70 or 12/16/20 gauge SxS is worth a look for CONUS use too. It is certainly non-traditional for a forum like this one but, a SxS shotgun with quality slugs is hard to say NO to. I scored a really sweet really old 16 gauge SxS for under $500 so, that may be an easy way for you to "test drive" a SxS before you step up to larger dollars and buy a double rifle.

If you are patient, there are really good deals ocasionally on large bore double rifles. That's how I got my Chapuis 470NE. Some day it will draw blood in Africa with my hands but, until then ..... the dream lives on in this bad economy. Maybe one day in the not distant future, a nice Russian Boar and I may meet somewhere CONUS.

quote:

Originally posted by Lilguy:
I am in love with the Merkel at Cabelas but 10 grand is just to much at this time. 7000.00 is
about my limit. Retail around here you need to add 10% sales tax.I'll keep fishing, Thanks all.

I'd be surprised if you can't find a 9.3 for $7000 or under.

I'm not sure one wasn't posted on here in the last few months.

.

Lilguy

There is a Merkel 141 single trigger( ) on Guns International #100180451 for $4,995.00.

There is also a Chapuis UGEX double trigger ( ) on Guns International #100192449 for $5,200.00 offered by our A.R. buddy Ken at KEBCO.

quote:

If I were going to build a DR in this class...I would build a .348 WCF.

How about 30-40 krag in a double?

quote:

Originally posted by DoubleDon:
Lilguy

There is a Merkel 141 single trigger( ) on Guns International #100180451 for $4,995.00.

There is also a Chapuis UGEX double trigger ( ) on Guns International #100192449 for $5,200.00 offered by our A.R. buddy Ken at KEBCO.

Merkel looks OK for the price. 9.3 Ejector.


The Chapuis you listed is the one I was thinking of.


C'mon Lilguy, now is your chance, 2 decent guns, one from an upstanding bloke
who is an AR member. Can't go wrong.

Let me quote you
"I am in love with the Merkel at Cabelas but 10 grand is just to much at this time. 7000.00 is
about my limit. Retail around here you need to add 10% sales tax.I'll keep fishing, Thanks all."

So you are between $1800 and $2000 ahead. Now get on the phone and jump at one of these,
you can't go wrong. Good makes, always seem to be well regulated, great calibre - can be downloaded or uploaded from 230gn to 320gns with 286gn in the middle - with other bullet weights in between as well) and more importantly, No ground muzzles and a test target that probably accurately reflects what the gun does !!!

.

Great minds think alike!

quote:

303 British would be the ticket in my opinion

I agree completely...Other than a 470 nitro, a 303 Brit would be the very next thing I would buy. I think there is just 'something' about a double in that caliber. Neat, neat, neat.

Thanks Don

Lilguy

What do you think of them ?

C'mon Nigel, let's push him to the cliff! We need more support at our meetings! He can join our little group. "My name is Don"...."Hi Don!"...and so it goes.

C'mon Lilguy. Enjoy this wonderful "addiction".

The REALITY is, IF you want a Double Rifle under 40 cal, the 9,3x74R is the best choice.

It is a rimmed cartridge, and it is widely avialable in affordable doubles. Ammo is widely avialable as well.

It is usually quite a bit slimmer/trimmer and cheaper than a 375 double.

I have used a 9,3x74R double a LOT. It is not too much for bobcat, deer, wild pigs, turkey, plenty good for bears, any and all African Plains game, including giraffe, I killed my biggest cape buff [in horn and body with one shot, a 286gr Woodlie Soft], and I killed an elephant at 5 yards, side brain shot with a 286gr Woodleigh Solid.

A double rifle in 9,3x74R is one of the very best hunting guns on the Planet, IMHO of course.

What Bailey said +1 for the .303 if you want a 30 caliber.
For a quick update on the .303 British, see current issue of Handloader Magazine for article on .303 performance with modern powders:
http://www.riflemagazine.com/m...PDF/hl273partial.pdf

Inet down for several days.Thanks for the leads.Will take lap top on vacation and search one out.

I would think the .303 would be easiest and best choice for you to find or have built. I own one and really enjoy shooting and practicing with it. Woodleigh still makes the 215 grain bullet.
If I were going to have one built for use in USA exclusively it would probably be the .450 Alaskan. Something of a half size 450 nitro using the .348 brass. It could be built on a medium frame and lighter than the full blown nitro making it again more of a field gun and more fun to practice with.
Frank

A more affordable route may be to go for a good german / austrian built combination gun in say 12 or 16 bore / 7x65R of which there are a good number, and to then add an Einstecklauf liner barrel in the same calibre for c Euro 1,000 (for a new one). Or add a small calibre (22 hornet) so that you have true versatility. I picked mine up - a Joseph Hambrusch with claw mounted Zeiss scope for just over £1,000 from Holts auction three years ago. I will put a liner barrel in sometime - most likely a 22 cf so I have it for vermin etc. But to date haven't needed the second shot. Most liner barrels are adjustable so regulation is not an issue.

Don't discount the 7x65R - similar balistics to the 280 Rem which will do everything the 30-06 will do save for shooting 200 plus grain bullets.

Extractors/Ejectors. Why one over the other?

quote:

Originally posted by Lilguy:
Extractors/Ejectors. Why one over the other?

In the end it is personal choice.


I have both and can ALMOST pump and dump as fast with
an extractor as I can with an ejector gun, but then again
I practice more with extractor guns so that helps.

However, it is only on the odd occasion that the volume
of fire (in my case) requires really fast reloading
and in some ways, Ejectors are better.

.

quote:

Originally posted by Lilguy:
Extractors/Ejectors. Why one over the other?

A personal choice. I strongly prefer ejectors. Purchase the aforementioned "ejector" Chapuis from Ken at KEBCO and never look back. 9.3x74R is a great, versatile calibre. If you find that you don't care for the ejectors, no problem, have them disconnected. A very simple fix.

quote:

Guns International #100192449

I would very much appreciate any/all here to look at the particulars in this listing and PM me with your comments/advice on it. No one in my circle has any knowledge of DR's. I may have some off topic questions. Thanks all

quote:

Originally posted by Lilguy:

quote:

Guns International #100192449

I would very much appreciate any/all here to look at the particulars in this listing and PM me with your comments/advice on it. No one in my circle has any knowledge of DR's. I may have some off topic questions. Thanks all

One thing I didn't notice last time was this

"Scope mounts (Recknagel Piviot Type) available for $350"

Always nice to have the option.

Hello Lilguy

With all do respect, fish or cut bait. I chatted with Ken today. I told him of your post. That is the last Chapuis he has. It has upgraded wood. Less than you wanted to spend. Money talks and bullshit walks! Are you a "real buyer" or a voyour?

quote:

Originally posted by DoubleDon:

quote:

I am sure I can find an example of a rimmed cartridge that has failed to eject in a double rifle.Mike

Please educate us.

All it takes is a broken ejector, and that can and does happen.

Yeah, yeah.

quote:

Originally posted by DoubleDon:
Yeah, yeah.

The perceived techical weakness of double rifles with belted cartridges is that the ejectors are potentially weaker than with rimmed cartridges.

This may be true, but let's hear of real examples where the ejectors in Heyms, Merkels, H&H's, Chapuis's, Ferlach guns, etc. have failed.

I can be convinced with examples, but only in dangerous game situations. I've shot quite a few doubles chambered in belted cartridges and never once have had a failure.

Anything can and sometimes does happen. But problems can also arise with rimmed cartridges.