quote:

I don't know what it is, but there is something about that doll's head on these rifles that I find so intoxicating. It is so perfectly fitted, it is set very far back into the action, and to me just oozes the very pinnacle of gunmaking as an art.

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Originally posted by enfieldspares:

quote:

I don't know what it is, but there is something about that doll's head on these rifles that I find so intoxicating. It is so perfectly fitted, it is set very far back into the action, and to me just oozes the very pinnacle of gunmaking as an art.

Hmm. It's also total affectation and not used...even on their .577 and .600 rifles by the likes of Holland & Holland.

And it makes a whole lot of extra (and unnecessary but expensive) work if the rifle or shot gun is ever re-jointed.

Don't like 'em. never did and never will. Like roof "irons" on the side of some classic American cars total affectation.

quote:

Being a Purdey owner { shotgun} I would have thought they would have perhaps been interested in discussing a new rifle.

To cut a long story short , they screwed me around and showed me little respect when I visited them at the store.And they knew I had travelled from Australia to do this!!

H&H similarly weren't really that interested, were keener on selling me clothing than talking rifle.

quote:

Originally posted by enfieldspares:
You're welcome. I'm glad that my unsolicited opinion contributed to the thread.

I first shot a double rifle thirty-five years ago. So I may just have some knowledge of the matter. A Holland "best" .470 NE. No "doll's head" and the better for it.

That such a "dolls head" requires a lot of skilled work may be. But it's unnecessary work and complicates any subsequent re-joint.

I've owned enough "best" guns to know what is and isn't considered here, in UK, the pinnacle of gunmaking.

And by long custom and evolution "best" guns, sidelock or boxlock, shotgun or rifle don't have "doll's head" fasteners.

Never have had and never will have.

Westley make a good product and I knew Westley's when they were at Bournbrook and Walter Clode ran the operation. In fact they did a "live" gun fitting there for me in the 1980s. When it was easier to drive there rather than to Holland's at Northwood.

But the "doll's head" is an unnecessary affectation that also reduces substantially the area that the ejectors have available in direct contact with the cartridge rims.

Last it's PITA if you get a jammed cartridge and fjnd you (often) can't easily use a traditional three claw cartridge extractor on it.

Or worse, because you've left it in the gun's case, you don't have it and need to use your fingers.

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I don't think WR would waste the considerable time involved in fitting the dolls head, and back under lug, if it was simply for looks!

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Originally posted by enfieldspares:

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I don't think WR would waste the considerable time involved in fitting the dolls head, and back under lug, if it was simply for looks!

They did it as they had no choice. Purdey's underbolt was still under patent. So early Westley guns had no underbolt and used instead the "doll's head".



What MacD says is pretty much what Burrard in his three volume "The Modern Shotgun" says. If properly fitted it does stop the barrels and action bar from moving away from their at rest position.

But with a Purdey underbolt it isn't really needed and has become almost a Westley trademark on some of their guns rather than for any other reason. Same as customers expected the fern leaves on the fences of a Grant or a "beetle back" type safety on a Boss.

....Mac >>>===(x)===> MacD37, ...and DUGABOY1
DRSS Charter member
"If I die today, I've had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"~ME 1982

Hands of Old Elmer Keith

quote:

Originally posted by enfieldspares:
It's a shot gun, but as the image came off another's website I don't know the date. Certainly it will be before Wesley followed most others an began using Purdy's double underbolt so thus having a 'table grip' gun.

An interesting website...I don't agree with some of what he says, is Diggers Hadoke's Vintage Guns website. Which is where the picture came from.

....Mac >>>===(x)===> MacD37, ...and DUGABOY1
DRSS Charter member
"If I die today, I've had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"~ME 1982

Hands of Old Elmer Keith

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:
Very interesting. You chaps really know your stuff.

It was always my regret that I did not hunt with a fine English double.

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Originally posted by fairgame

It was always my regret that I did not hunt with a fine English double.

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Originally posted by ozhunter:

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Originally posted by fairgame

It was always my regret that I did not hunt with a fine English double.

Never too late! There is a lovely Manton 470 for sale for a tad above $20G U.S. I'm sure that price could be worked on..

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Originally posted by fairgame:

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Originally posted by ozhunter:
Whilst only a restored box Lock, Westley Richards are indeed exquisite double rifles.

Only.

If I only owned one.

quote:

Originally posted by ozhunter:

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Originally posted by fairgame:

quote:

Originally posted by ozhunter:
Whilst only a restored box Lock, Westley Richards are indeed exquisite double rifles.

Only.

If I only owned one.

Andrew,
Will send banking details shortly. Tom indicated that he would require this one for the up coming Lion hunt and said you would arrange payment.
Regards,
Adam