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Looking for a little guidance form my more experienced brethren. Todd Williams, Mike Jines etal. I have embarked into the world of the DR. I am currently shooting a Merkel 500NE while I wait for my VC NE to arrive. Now to my issues. The front trigger on the Merkel sucks. It has a creep and a click before it goes off. The second trigger is crisp and clean. Hence my front barrel accuracy is not so good. I am practicing exclusively offhand for eles. Is it ok to shoot back trigger first? Also so far I am just not very good with the damn thin. I had JJ put a Doctor Optic on it and that helped...some. Any pointers? Best Jeff | ||
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I would hope that your first ele shot would be off sticks unless it is VERY close.But, I am not an expert. Have you tried shooting off sticks? I don't see any problems shooting the left barrel first, but I would suggest getting the front trigger looked at. Just my 2 cents. Peter. Be without fear in the face of your enemies. Be brave and upright, that God may love thee. Speak the truth always, even if it leads to your death. Safeguard the helpless and do no wrong; | |||
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Hunting with CMS and we won't likely use sticks as we will likely move in for a proper distance on our ele. I like sticks don't get me wrong. Jeff | |||
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It is absolutely ok to shoot your back trigger first. I use this technique with all of my doubles, and it precludes "strumming" ie your finger sliding back from front to back and inadvertently firing / pulling the rear trigger after the first barrel (front trigger) is fired. There are some very experienced and knowledgeable contributors to this forum who consider pulling the back trigger first "double rifle heresy", but it is the way Butch Searcy taught me how to shoot a double rifle when I bought my first .470NE from him 8 years ago. I have shot this way ever since and have never had one of my rifles double inadvertently. | |||
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I've shot rear trigger first for 25+ years. Works for me. Cal _______________________________ Cal Pappas, Willow, Alaska www.CalPappas.com www.CalPappas.blogspot.com 1994 Zimbabwe 1997 Zimbabwe 1998 Zimbabwe 1999 Zimbabwe 1999 Namibia, Botswana, Zambia--vacation 2000 Australia 2002 South Africa 2003 South Africa 2003 Zimbabwe 2005 South Africa 2005 Zimbabwe 2006 Tanzania 2006 Zimbabwe--vacation 2007 Zimbabwe--vacation 2008 Zimbabwe 2012 Australia 2013 South Africa 2013 Zimbabwe 2013 Australia 2016 Zimbabwe 2017 Zimbabwe 2018 South Africa 2018 Zimbabwe--vacation 2019 South Africa 2019 Botswana 2019 Zimbabwe vacation 2021 South Africa 2021 South Africa (2nd hunt a month later) ______________________________ | |||
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I have shot double trigger shotguns and have no trouble going back and forth. So I will work with that on this gun. Thank you for the input gentlemen. Also the recoil really knocks me we off for second shots. other than a mercury piston in the stock is there any other way to manage the barrel jump? Jeff | |||
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I hunted two ele with CMS in 2012 and took both with a .475 No. 2 Wilkes. One at 12 yards and one at 15 yards. You walk up on them in the thicker stuff. If you are shooting at distances longer than 40 yards you may want a bolt gun with sticks unless you practice often. Just my 2 cents. Dutch | |||
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There is less felt recoil from firing the barrel closest to your body. For a right handed shooter, pulling the rear trigger first will fire the left barrel, so your felt recoil is a bit less. Other suggestions are hang on to the forend much more tightly than for a double shotgun. If the rifle is really kicking the snot out of you, your length of pull may be too short. This could be easily mitigated by having a thicker recoil pad or spacer installed. | |||
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More good info. Thanks. Dutch, I am working on it. I have seven weeks to go and have been shooting. If I don't feel 100% confident at 25 yards off hand I will use the old bolt gun. Jeff | |||
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I don't have near the experience of others in this thread but from attending double shoots and being able to shoot other's doubles I have learned that the fit of the stock, both length, and drop mean everything in felt recoil. Weight of the gun matters as well. Hopefully when your VC arrives you will find if fits and feels much better than the Merkel. I have "banjo'd the triggers as the Admiral has mentioned. I did it during my Ele hunt with Buzz, but not the first two shots. Cheers Jim ______________________ DRSS ______________________ Hunt Reports 2015 His & Her Leopards with Derek Littleton of Luwire Safaris - http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/2971090112 2015 Trophy Bull Elephant with CMS http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/1651069012 DIY Brooks Range Sheep Hunt 2013 - http://forums.accuratereloadin...901038191#9901038191 Zambia June/July 2012 with Andrew Baldry - Royal Kafue http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/7971064771 Zambia Sept 2010- Muchinga Safaris http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/4211096141 Namibia Sept 2010 - ARUB Safaris http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/6781076141 | |||
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Jeff, Lots of good advice already. My thoughts: 1. If you are more comfortable shooting the rear trigger first, go for it. The important thing is for the movement from the rear trigger to the front trigger to become instinctive. It is shocking the number of people that continue to pull the trigger on the fired barrel without shifting to the other trigger. 2. Relatedly, practice, practice, practice. I would make it a point to shoot every week if you can. You do not have to shoot twenty rounds, maybe just shoot eight or ten rounds some weeks but practice. It will make the trigger move instinctive, get you accustomed to the recoil, familiarize you with the sight picture, etc. 3. Practice at modest distances. There is nothing more frustrating that shooting all over the paper at 50 or 100 yards and then walking away with your confidence shattered. Practice at 25-40 yards. I promise if you get proficient at that distance when you move out a bit the confidence that you built will show and your shooting at distance will be improved. 4. If irons do not work, go with the red dot. I shoot a helluva lot better with red dot than irons, but I like iron sights. 5. Practice on and off sticks. I know you will shoot off sticks likely with CMS. But at the range you will shoot better, build confidence and get accustomed to the rifle shooting off of sticks. Do not rest the barrel or forearm on the sticks, rest your forearm on the yoke of the sticks. I really believe if your confidence is good, your shooting is better. If your range allows, take some balloons to shoot off hand. Rather than shoot at a target off hand and get irritated with flyers, blow up six balloons and put them out and shoot off hand at the balloons . . . that way you can practice reloading too. Clay targets works as well, but I like balloons because they are are little bigger.  If all else fails, you may have to just arrange to fly George down for several personalized lessons . . . that should be incentive enough to practice.  Mike | |||
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A poor fitting less powerful cartridge rifle will put me off far more thn a well fitting .500, .450 etc. Proved this again last Saturday shooting doubles and lrge bolt rifles (and a single 400) with some friends. All commented on poor performace and greater recoil efffect with the poorly fitting rifles. Cheers, Chris DRSS | |||
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Can't say it much better than what Mike already said Jeff. I hope you have a great hunt. | |||
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Thanks guys. I consider myself an ok rifleman and am just trying to shorten the learning curve. I will keep the shootaway option in my hip pocket for now. Best Jeff | |||
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I bought several sets of snap caps and practiced shooting by dry firing, even going as far as wearing my binoculars and shooting belt. It helped develop muscle memory to pull the second trigger and to reload proficiently. Last year I did not practice much and it showed. Come to think about it I should be practicing now. | |||
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Jeff, I am in the same situation like you. No real experience with doubles and an eye sight challenge. Discussing with Jerome he adviced to put on the Doctor Optic from VC in St Etienne. I followed his advice and feel confident that the mount etc prepared from Jerome is the thing. In addition Nick from Australia told me that the front sight could be changed from brass to a red fiber. Jerome sent me a couple of that and in the sun this almost appear as the Doctor Optic. I have not tried this in real hunting situation yet, but testing in the range was positive. Then you have both options giving a " red dot ". Morten Ps Rich as PH this time too ? The more I know, the less I wonder ! | |||
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Jeff, I don't have any issue's shooting back trigger or left barrel first. I shoot my 600 this way as I've had a DD and wasn't pretty!! Try holding the forend and stock real tight,and pull it into your shoulder. Also put 2/3rds of your weight on your front/ leading foot, as they teach you for trap shooting clay targets. This should help your recovery for 2nd shot and muzzle rise. As Morten said , maybe you aren't seeing the front bead clearly, the doctor optics are a great aid, I personally prefer the fibre optic front sight From recknagel that change out with the VC front sight set-up.not sure of the Merkel though? Mikes comments of shooting at "real ELe distance" also makes a lot of sense. Of all my ele I've shot , the longest was 20m down to 9m, average being 15. Forget the sticks, plug away at 15,20 and 25m offhand, This replicates what you will experience in Dande with CMS. I am thinking that the Merkel just doesn't fit you well, maybe length of pull problem? Thicker pachmayer pad could help , or spacers. Best of luck on your hunt, stick with the double!!!! Cheers Nick | |||
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A couple of thoughts to add.. When ever you are at the range or practicing at home with dummy rounds all ways work from your ammo belt. Get a shot timer you can get an app for your phone and practice loading with it it will put additional pressure on you to perform, start slow and build from there. If you are looking a fiber optic front sights don't rule out green or yellow they are my preference over red. Have you made any effort to get the front trigger fixed? | |||
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Suggestion: A) Send the gun out and have the triggers adjusted. I respectfully totally disagree with the rear trigger first guys. B) Compare the stock dimensions with the dimensions (I assume Jerome took) of your V-C being built. Easy to have a thicker pad added and if drop at comb, drop at heel and/or cast is an issue (which I doubt), send it to Glenn Baker at Woodcock Hill. He can perform all of the above in a timely manner. Good luck! Deo Vindice, Don Sons of Confederate Veterans Black Horse Camp #780 | |||
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Don, My VC is in country now and on it's way to JJ to be checked over and to be fitted with a Doctor Optic. Until it's in my hands I will continue to work with the Merkel. I REALLY appreciate all of the sound advice I have received here. This site is the best. Jeff | |||
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I did send my K gun back to Kreighoff to have the front sight replaced with a fiber optic sight. I also have a scope on it. But I find the fiber optic is really fast to pick up when using open sights. Bear in mind you might have to change the rear sight if you replace the front sight. Peter. Be without fear in the face of your enemies. Be brave and upright, that God may love thee. Speak the truth always, even if it leads to your death. Safeguard the helpless and do no wrong; | |||
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If you are ever in Mtl let me know and I might have time to give you a free lesson. | |||
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Perfect! | |||
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Tell us about your new VC | |||
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Once it's in hand. It is currently on the way to JJ to have the triggers adjusted and a Doctor Optic placed on it. It is a plain jane 500 NE splinter fore grip with ejectors. Jeff | |||
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Barrel length? | |||
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Jeff : Don't worry about the muzzle rising. You won't notice it in hunting situations. Only 6 weeks! | |||
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Jeff, Get four snap caps as well and practice reloading from your belt both at home and the range. It helps ingrain the movement to the second trigger, whether the front or rear is your first choice. Cheers Jim ______________________ DRSS ______________________ Hunt Reports 2015 His & Her Leopards with Derek Littleton of Luwire Safaris - http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/2971090112 2015 Trophy Bull Elephant with CMS http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/1651069012 DIY Brooks Range Sheep Hunt 2013 - http://forums.accuratereloadin...901038191#9901038191 Zambia June/July 2012 with Andrew Baldry - Royal Kafue http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/7971064771 Zambia Sept 2010- Muchinga Safaris http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/4211096141 Namibia Sept 2010 - ARUB Safaris http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/6781076141 | |||
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Train as you will fight; do not change your trigger sequence if you already are mentally trained to do it front first. It doesn't matter which one you pull first as long as you train consistently. I have seen guys in the field, after firing, stop and look for the brass, just like they do at the range, when they should be reloading and looking at the game animal. Because they trained to do that, their brain can't change under pressure. Train as you fight. Get the trigger fixed. | |||
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UPDATE: Shot over 20 rounds this weekend and shot much better. Sot a few rounds off the sticks. Easy and the rest off hand. Starting to get the hang of it. Need to use a glove on my left hand when the barrel heats up. shooting off the sticks is cake. Thanks again for all of the advice. Jeff | |||
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Well done, always nice to see progress . . . Mike | |||
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+1 If Mike Jines says it you can take it to the bank! There is nothing wrong with shooting the back trigger first if that is the only way you can avoid a strumming double discharge, or if something is amiss with the front trigger. However learning a proper hold on the rifle will both mitigate felt recoil, banging the middle finger by the trigger guard and the strumming of the back trigger when firing front trigger first. Many old timers carried their double with a soft in the right barrel, and a solid in the left barrel, so they could choose which bullet was needed quickly. This was done mostly when hunting buffalo, and when hunting elephant both barrels were usually loaded with solids so trigger selection was simply by the shooter's choice. I normally pull the front trigger first, and I have only strummed a double discharge twice in all the years I've been shooting double rifles. I do shoot the back trigger first on occasion but my instinct is front trigger first. In your case I would have someone look into the trigger problem, fix the problem, and practice which ever way YOU want to shoot your rifle, so that it becomes natural to YOU! ...................................................................  ....Mac >>>===(x)===> MacD37, ...and DUGABOY1 DRSS Charter member "If I die today, I've had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"~ME 1982 Hands of Old Elmer Keith  | |||
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