I am thinking that I “NEED†a light double at some time in the future.

I've got a .470NE and am thinking that a .375 Flanged would be a neat little companion rifle.

However when I start looking for brass for the little .375 Flanged my mouth gets dry and palms get a bit sweaty. It seems to be a rare and expensive commodity!

So that leaves me with the obvious common sense choice of a 9.3X 74R. Having never played with either I was wonder what your general opinions and thoughts are concerning either one or the other or both rounds?

My Chapius 9.3 should be here by the end of the month...

I have a Chapuis 9,3x74R. Is fitted a 1.5-6x42 Schmidt&Bender scope and extra 20 gauge bbls.

I have been able to acquire some RWS brass that I like better than the old Norma brass (weighing abt 200 gr per case). The new Norma brass appears to weigh about the same as the RWS. Good brass seems to last reasonably well.

My rifle shoots 286 gr Noslers and Woodleighs fine as well as 270 gr Speers quite well. Have killed pigs and whitetails with them. The Speers are good only for paper and soda bottles ;>

However ... I've not been able to get the same velocity as I do with 9,3x62 in a bolt rifle. It is about 100 fps slower.

If you want the rifle for DG ... the 9,3x74R is not likely to make the energy requirements if other than .375 is allowed. I'd recommend a larger caliber.

Other than that, I find a .470 DR and a 9,3x74R make a wonderful battery allowing a very wide range of game to be taken with ease.

Mike,

Thanks for your post.

Do you know if anybody besides Bertram is making .375 Flanged brass?

Go to

google... www.custombrassandbullets


Horneber (spelling) they list it..

I not sure why that link does not work...but it worked when I did it on google

Try this corrected link:

http://www.custombrassandbullets.com/

JPK

Bertram, Hornerber,kynoch list 375 Flanged mag brass.

quote:

Originally posted by JPK:
Bertram, Hornerber,kynoch list 375 Flanged mag brass.

I bought good brass from Huntington's and it was labeled HDS. Some are over 8 loads and only trimmed, no failures

The .375 Flanged Magnum has been a headache for 50 years. If you want one I'd suggest that you buy your brass once (say 500 rounds), so that you don't have to worry about that issue again.

Kynoch's brass is made by Horneber, Bertram, and others. I'm pretty sure their .375 Flanged Magnum brass is Horneber.

Both are good rounds. Since you have a heavier double and won't need this one for DG, I'd probably pick the 9.3.
-----------------------------------------------
"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."

I've never seen 375 Flanged ammo or brass anywhere, ever. A fella can buy 9.3x74R off the shelf at Cabelas. If you get a 9.3 make sure it's regulated for the 286 grain bullet; I've heard of at least one Merkel that came regulated for 250 grain ammunition (?!!). How about keeping it simple and buying a double chambered for the regular 375 H&H?

Thanks all some good information/resources here.

Nordseta,

I've thought about the .375H&H in a double but I really prefer a flanged cartridge in a double rifle.

In the Chapuis the 9.3 weighs less than does the .375. For me that was the deciding factor.

I'd get the 9.3x74mm as quality ammunition is readily availible just about anywhere in this world.

Surestrike
The 375 Flanged is a hbigh dollar operation from the start. The rifle and ammo is very expensive.

I have used a 9,3x74R Chapuis on a lot of game in the US, Canada, and Africa, including cape Buff and a cow elephant.

For a medium bore double I can recommend the 9,3x74R with out reservation.
Usually 9,3 doubles are about half the cost of 375 H&H doubles or say the Krieghoff in 375 Flanged.

With 286 grain Woodleigh Solids, and 286 gr Woodleigh Softs you are ready for any game animal on the Planet.

Gotta agree with NE 450 on this (again), My Krieghoff has a set of 9.3x74R barrels regulated for the Norma 286 Oryx bullet. I recently scoped it with the Kahles 1.5-6 (30mm) and shooting VERY well at 100 yards.

I'm interested in trying it at longer ranges and experimenting with Swift 250 gr A Frame bullets (MY go to round for my 9.3x62 bolt rifle).

My hunting experience with it is limited to MN deer. I shot 2 does when they lined up in front of me at about 95 yards with Norma Alaska bullets (286 gr) that passed cleanly through both. No sense in wasting ammo on basically a culling hunt!!

Surestrike
I would also highly recommend you have your 9,3x74R scoped.
I have taken game to 300 yards with mine.

Something in the 1-4 or 1.5-6 with an illuminated reticle is perfect.
On mine I have a Swarovski 1.5-6x42 with the circle dot illuminated reticle.
For me it is a perfect set up.
I like that scope so well I have 3 of them.

If I left for Africa today, the two rifles that would go in the Tuff-pak would be a pair of Merkels! A 140-2 470NE Safari, and a 140E 9.3X74R! with this two double battery one can take on what ever comes around the tree trunk, with the proper bullets! Nothing else is needed for anyplace in the world for hunting small, to big game! I agree with others here who reccomend scopeing the 9.3 double with a low powered illuminated reticle scope. This makes the little 9.3 double into a very versatile hunting rifle, and perfect for LEOPARD/LION over bait! Addtionally if it happens to be what is in your hands when you spot a 45" Cape Buffalo, then go for it, with the proper loads, it will ring his bell!

Thanks for all of the GREAT info guys! I've sure been eyeing one of those Chapuis 9.3's they look to be a fantastic value.

I had my sweaty little palms on an absolutely gorgeous little .375 Flanged the other day. My vision started to cloud over and I was having thoughts of second mortgages and such. When my wife came over and destroyed my fantasy with a strong slap from the reality stick.

The rifle was a very trim gorgeous little H&H. Neatly engraved and it couldn't have weighed more than 8lbs. Thin wasted, splinter fore end, covered in rose & scroll, dark wood with unbelievable character etc, etc.

The only problem is I've got less equity in my house than the asking price for that little gem!

Having had a nice little WR SXS .375 Flanged, and currently having a double 9.3x74-R, I much prefer the .375. Better variety of bullets (though that may not matter much unless you are an adept "regulator" of loads), legal for DG just about everywhere, nice ambiance. And if one isn't going to spend the money in this lifetime for a double he really prefers, when?

Either will do, though.

Both rounds are ballisically equal. Where the 9.3x74R would shine is the weight factor. Most 9.3's are built on petite frames and weigh from 7-7.75 lbs., as the 375 flanged is going to weigh 8.5-9.5 lbs. So basically the recoil factor is going to be about the same. After carrying your 470 for a while the 9.3 would feel like a youth model gun. I totally agree with the rest of the replies on the brass issue on the 375. For your information, Merkel makes the 9.3x74R, and it comes with an adjustable regulating block so you can regulate whatever bullet you want to use, I personally like the 300 grain swifts. The drawback of the Merkle to say a Chapuis is that the Merkle comes with a 21.6 inch barrels and the Chapuis comes with 24 inch barrels, that's a plus personally for me.

9.3X74R only way to go!

quote:

Originally posted by dirklawyer:
Both rounds are ballisically equal. Where the 9.3x74R would shine is the weight factor. Most 9.3's are built on petite frames and weigh from 7-7.5 lbs., as the 375 flanged is going to weigh 8.5-9.5 lbs. So basically the recoil factor is going to be about the same. After carrying your 470 for a while the 9.3 would feel like a youth model gun. I totally agree with the rest of the replies on the brass issue on the 375. For your information, Merkel makes the 9.3x74R, and it comes with an adjustable regulating block so you can regulate whatever bullet you want to use, I personally like the 300 grain swifts.

DIRK, I have a Merkel 9.3x74R mod 140E S/S double rifle, and it weighs 8.3 pounds, and there is no adjustable regulation on the 9.3X74R S/S doubles. This is restricted to the smaller chamberings, like 30-06!

My rifle isn't very old, and unless they have changed since I bought mine,and they very well could have, but their web-site doesn't show it, the barrels are permently regulated. The only S/S double rifle I know of chambered for 9.3X74R that is adjustable if the Blazer, and the only one I know of that is as light as you say is the Chapuis! Maybe, I'm behind!

Mac, I have had an older model in the Merkel and it weighed 7.25lbs. and was not adjustable. Just talked with Danny at GSI yesterday and the new ones are adjustable and he weighed a rifle while I was on the phone and it weighed 7 lbs.

quote:

Originally posted by Rusty:
9.3X74R only way to go!

Rusty,
I respectfully have to disagree.

I agree that the 9.3 is more widely distributed through out the world.
I agree .375 Fl. mag. brass and loaded is harder to come by and has been, but it is available.
To the hand loader that wants to use "his ammo"
worldwide distribution is inmaterial.
Yes, a .375 Fl. Mag. may cost more and are harder to find. However, it seems to me that is one thinks they can afford to hunt Africa and I like it as well as anybody, then in most cases the price difference isn't a major issue.
I am from the "old school" and have to support the .375 Flanged Mag. as a better choice for Africa than the 9.3x74. If one wants to get technical about it I think there are some legal issues with the 9.3 in some countries for DG. I happen to think the 9.3s are being built too light, but that is a personnal opinion, not a technical issue. Heck, build it at 6# if you want and it will pass proof for the maker!
I have never used a 9.3x 74, saw one used by a Frenchman in CAR years ago. Unfortunately he had a problem finding the target with a bullet.
I have used the .375 Fl. mag a lot. I could never tell any difference between it and the belted on the game.
I am sure the 9.3 kills well, but I won't push the legal issue and stick with the bigger diameter if I want to hunt with a double in that power range again.

Amusing how different attributes appeal to different people.

The Chapuis UGEX is the most bang for the buck in a new medium bore double rifle that I know of. Were it not for the weight, I'd have bought one for myself long ago. At 7.25 lbs in 9.3, they're 1.5 lbs too light, minimum.

I've handled a couple of the new 9.3 Merkels with the adjustable wedge. Both had 21" barrels, which I hope is not a new standard. IIRC, the fixed wedge guns were all 23.5", which was already too short. Same with the adjustable wedge - I wouldn't want one at all. Merkel seems to have forgotten that they're building doubles, not bolts.
------------------------------------------------
"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."

AH,
Owning an A. Hollis & Son, 450/400 3 inch, I think I qualify as an "Old School" kinda guy!

The only ones I have shot have been Mac's and NE 450#2's. I might suggest a search in the African forum for NE 450#2's report on his last hunt with his Chapius. I'm impressed!

Everyone ought to go spend their money on what they want to shoot. I'll go for the 9.3X74R.

The only detraction is the lack of 26" barrels on modern 93.X74R doubles! Just my opine!

Rusty,
Some have and some don't. My FN-Browning CCS 25 o/u in 9,3x74R has 26" bbls.

Very nice, Andre!

I've got a 375 Flanged Cogswell and Harrison dougle, a scoped 375H&H U/O, a 9.3x74R drilling and a 9.3x64 Brenneke bolt. I don't think you would ever tell the difference on game. The 9.3x74R and 375 Flanged are identical with my loads as are the 9.3x64 and 375H&H (the latter pair being about 100fps faster.

If you turn (on a lathe) the belt off a 375H&H case, in my rifle, there is enough rim left to headspace and extract. DO NOT TRY THIS at HOME unless you're really sure the modified cases are headspaing properly as chambers vary and the Flanged and Belted cases are quite a bit different.

mike

Here's some interesting data on these cartridges. CIP maximum average pressure for the 9.3X74R is 49,312 PSI and that for the .375 Flanged Magnum is 47,137 PSI. The 9.3 is a higher pressure cartridge than the .375, although the difference is not great. By comparison, the current CIP standard for the .470 is 39,160 PSI.

The CIP max average pressure for the .375 Belted Rimless Magnum is 62,362 PSI, which is slightly more than the CIP proof pressure for the 9.3. Aside from the extraction issue, the pressure makes it a poor choice for a double rifle.
------------------------------------------------
"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."

Afircan Hunter
I know you have a tremendous amount of experience with double rifles and African game.
However....
A 375 Flanged is a very expensive double, usually even more than a big bore. It is an excellent ctg no doubt.;
However a 9,3x74R is quite a bit more affordable, and I would submit every bit as effective on game as the 375 Flanged, or the H&H for that matter.

I have shot all manner of plains game and a giraffe, a big buff bull, and a cow elephant.
It has killed those animals as well, and actually on the giraffe and cape buff bull with less rounds fired than my 450 No2.

If a person can afford a British 375 Flanged, it will serve him well, but I have proven to myself that a 9,3x74R can do ANYTHING that can be done with a double under 40 cal.

I am currently awaiting the delivery of a Butch Searcy classic double rifle in 450-400, 3" with an extra set of 375 Flanged Magnum barrels. The rifle is to weigh in at close to 9 lbs. Butch said that the barrels would not be different enough in weight to notice.
I ordered some brass directly from Horneber and the 375 Flanged Magnum brass was quite a bit cheaper than the 400.

Both barrels will be fitted for scopes and I have been saving a pair of 1.5-4.5 Swarovski 1" tube scopes for just this project. I have one with the 4A reticle for the 400 and the plex for the 375. I can hardly wait.

Is a Gaucher 9,3x74R something "to look at"?
The seller want USD 3600,- for it.

quote:

Originally posted by shadob:
Is a Gaucher 9,3x74R something "to look at"?
The seller want USD 3600,- for it.

It could be a bargain or a dog.

bit more info would help.

SxS or O/U
Ejector or Extractor
English lines, German lines
Proof marks
Open sights or scoped ?
Dealer or Private, test target ?
Does it only have factory or any reloads with it ?

.

SxS
Extractor
English lines, German lines?
Don`t know the difference – but the stock is “classic”.
Proof marks?
From the pictures – it looks good.
Open sights or scoped ?
Open – but ready for a scope
Dealer or Private, test target ? Private. He say that both barrels are within 3 inches at 100 yds
Does it only have factory or any reloads with it ? Only factory

Well, worth looking at for sure.


If you can, hold it and test shoot it to make sure it fits and feels comfortable instead of a dead weight that "feels" heavy and unbalanced.

.

Brass.... http://www.jamisoninternationa...roduct-p/ji375fm.htm

Price of the rifle depends on the mfg. The V-C in 375 FM costs no more the same gun in 9.3

I'd say bite the bullet for 100 cases and dies. After that, there's no difference, and you have the tradition of a British flanged caliber...worth it to me.

Yeah but the "cool factor" of the 375 Flanged is just light years away from that non-personality 9.3