I was making a general statement but as you said,
Agree, stick with what you know.

Very nice!

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:
Nice to look at but it is like garbage to me.Cal you are kinda like a garbage collector.

Obviously typed in jest. A strange form, but a joke never the less... I hope.

quote:

Originally posted by ozhunter:

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:
Nice to look at but it is like garbage to me.Cal you are kinda like a garbage collector.

Obviously typed in jest. A strange form, but a joke never the less... I hope.

I disagree. Look at the body of his work. Look at Larry's 500 Nitro thread.

LHook

"Work" is too nice a word for it.

Psychotic ramblings might be better suited.

Gentlemen if our input is causing the little shitbird from the north to not want to hunt anymore please continue, full force. The buffalo cows and PH's of the world will collectively thank you once scitzo boy is no longer a threat to them.

Somebody needs to make the local Canadian authorities aware that this psychotic POS has access to guns.

quote:

Originally posted by surestrike:
Gentlemen if our input is causing the little shitbird form the north to not want to hunt anymore please continue, full force. The buffalo cows and PH's of the world will collectively thank you once scitzo boy is no longer a threat to them.

Somebody needs to make the local Canadian authorities aware that this psychotic POS has access to guns.

All kidding aside, this seems to be a prudent opinion. I'll tell you right now, if it ever goes pear shaped with him, I'll be the first guy on CNN or FOX saying "Told you so"! I'll not be the "neighbor" stating "he was always such a nice fellow" Bullshit to that!

Very nice rifle.... I enjoyed sharing the table at the AR dinner with you last January in dallas... looking fwd to seeing you again...

Cal Great find, nifty provenance....
I have always associated the Watson Bros with small bore shotguns never knew they made large bore doubles... The gun appears to be a Webley screw grip..
My Gibbs 450 also has a auto safety. I thought about disconnecting it as well, but with all of the mileage that I have shooting shotguns with auto safeties my feelings about muscle memory prevailed. My only concern was if the gun ended up being used by someone else in a "tight corner" who was not use to auto safeties.
Hot Barrels

quote:

Originally posted by Zephyr:
Cal Great find, nifty provenance....
I have always associated the Watson Bros with small bore shotguns never knew they made large bore doubles... The gun appears to be a Webley screw grip..
My Gibbs 450 also has a auto safety. I thought about disconnecting it as well, but with all of the mileage that I have shooting shotguns with auto safeties my feelings about muscle memory prevailed. My only concern was if the gun ended up being used by someone else in a "tight corner" who was not use to auto safeties.
Hot Barrels

Hi Zephyr,
I think (almost 100% sure) Mark Sullivan's 700NE was a Watson Bros.

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:
Cal:

Another question. Why do you think they have a 400 yard rear sight? Seems odd for a 500 NE.

Love the rifle.

Larry:
I have seen many double with long range sights. Two .600s I have seen in person had sights to 700 yards and the most elaborate was a .577 bpe with 24 inch barrels with sights to 1200 yards (not a typo--1200 yards!).

The unusual thing about this rifle is the 100-200-400 yardage, skipping 300 is indeed very rare and as to why, no one knows.

For other gents, on the issue of the auto safety. In my limited experience most of the rifles I have seen have the auto safety. My .600 Wilkes came with an auto safe. Since my hunting of big game is so very limited there is no use to change my pattern of thinking to a non auto safe. Neither is right nor wrong, just our individual preference.

We should all pray for Shootaway.
Pray he goes away, that is.

Cheers, mates.
Cal

quote:

Originally posted by cal pappas:
Gents:
Here is a new purchase I made a week ago--Jack Lott's .500 NE Watson Bros. double rifle.

Above is a rifle any normal person who is
an enthusiast of the SxS pattern rifle would
love to have, even if one of it's owners
was not famous. As to those who post on
this site with the obvious purpose of draw-
ing out heated responses from others, I
just chuckle at those folks and read on
to the next post. If we don't respond to
nonsense, which of course does not deserve
our effort to respond, nonsense will dwin-
dle away...

Any of us who are the LEAST BIT informed
on the subject of double rifles knows that
this statement: "...but it is like garbage to me.
Cal you are kinda like a garbage collector."
is nonsense.

Yes

A Watson Bros double in 500NE.
A very nice rifle and a very nice pickup.

Sir, thankyou for sharing it with us.

[/QUOTE]
Hi Zephyr,
I think (almost 100% sure) Mark Sullivan's 700NE was a Watson Bros.[/QUOTE]

Yes it was. Caswell had it for sale in 2008 IIRC.

quote:

Larry:
I have seen many double with long range sights. Two .600s I have seen in person had sights to 700 yards and the most elaborate was a .577 bpe with 24 inch barrels with sights to 1200 yards (not a typo--1200 yards!).

The unusual thing about this rifle is the 100-200-400 yardage, skipping 300 is indeed very rare and as to why, no one knows.

Cal,

Have you ever plinked a round out there on the furthest leaf just to see how close it comes to being an actual 1200 yard leaf?

I wouldn't be able to help myself!I'd have to try it..

One of my favorite stupid human tricks when shooting my double rifle is a long range shot on steel or a rock of course, never on a real life animal.

At my range we've got steel set up at 500 yards. I've figured out exactly how much front sight to hold to get a bullet into the very close proximity of that rack of steel. I get about a 50% hit rate on a good day. In any case it's always good for a few "oooohhhs and ahhhhhes" when I put one very near or onto steel at 500 yards with an open sighted double. And of course one can do the same with a laser range finder and a rock at 400 to 500 yards out on the ranch. This of course has no practical application on game but it is fun to play at and know you can do it.

But you never know when you'll be forced to stop a wounded escaping North American Game Rock at long range!! It's best to be prepared.

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:
Nice to look at but it is like garbage to me.Cal you are kinda like a garbage collector.

Seriously, what the fuck is your problem?

quote:

Originally posted by 505G:
Don't like auto safety's, I have them disconnected.

quote:

Originally posted by Todd Williams:
I don't like them either Nigel, but if that's what Cal is familiar with, I understand sticking to what you know. However, with it being non-auto now, he isn't likely to get into trouble with it in a gun fight because it will already be in the off position after each reload. Going the other way would be a different story, ie having it be auto but not accustomed to switching it off each time you raise the rifle.

Anyway, it's a damn fine rifle and in the absolute best chambering! 500NE ... the best of all worlds in a heavy double gun.

In reality, it is just as easy to remember to put the safety on as it is to remember to to take it off! It is simply a matter of which way you want the safety to work!

If the auto safety is the best in a dangerous game rifle , why is it that a dangerous game bolt rifle is not fitted with an auto safety? The reason is it doesn’t make sense! The safety would be re-set to “SAFE” every time the bolt was cycled, and would require being set to “FIRE” for every shot. The bolt rifle is slow enough already.

Quote from the Merkel double rifle owner’s manual Page 16 is the general specifications , second paragraph!

quote:

Operation of the double rifle “SAFETY” mechanism

“The double rifle safety mechanism is located on the tang of the receiver assembly just in front of the butt stock. Some Merkel double rifles are equipped with AUTOMATIC SAFETIES ie the safety is automatically engaged each time the breech is opened. Double rifles in 375H&H, 416 Rigby,470 Nitro express and 500 Nitro express are not equipped with automatic safeties because they are designed for dangerous game when the need for quick reloading and follow-up shots are critical”.

This is the normal condition for double rifles designed for hunting of dangerous game. Of course the rifles that are made to order are fitted the way the buyer wants them. So if you buy a double rifle by chambering, it will usually be shipped with a manual safety, if it is chambered for a dangerous game cartridge, unless you specify a desire for an auto safety.

My preference is for the manual safety on a double rifle that is chambered for any cartridge larger than a 30 caliber deer type cartridge. Like ejectors vs extractors, I can live with either auto safety vs manual, but on the safety my preference is for the manual.


....................................................................

quote:

Originally posted by MacD37:

quote:

Originally posted by 505G:
Don't like auto safety's, I have them disconnected.

quote:

Originally posted by Todd Williams:
I don't like them either Nigel, but if that's what Cal is familiar with, I understand sticking to what you know. However, with it being non-auto now, he isn't likely to get into trouble with it in a gun fight because it will already be in the off position after each reload. Going the other way would be a different story, ie having it be auto but not accustomed to switching it off each time you raise the rifle.

Anyway, it's a damn fine rifle and in the absolute best chambering! 500NE ... the best of all worlds in a heavy double gun.

In reality, it is just as easy to remember to put the safety on as it is to remember to to take it off! It is simply a matter of which way you want the safety to work!

If the auto safety is the best in a dangerous game rifle , why is it that a dangerous game bolt rifle is not fitted with an auto safety? The reason is it doesn’t make sense! The safety would be re-set to “SAFE” every time the bolt was cycled, and would require being set to “FIRE” for every shot. The bolt rifle is slow enough already.

Quote from the Merkel double rifle owner’s manual Page 16 is the general specifications , second paragraph!

quote:

Operation of the double rifle “SAFETY” mechanism

“The double rifle safety mechanism is located on the tang of the receiver assembly just in front of the butt stock. Some Merkel double rifles are equipped with AUTOMATIC SAFETIES ie the safety is automatically engaged each time the breech is opened. Double rifles in 375H&H, 416 Rigby,470 Nitro express and 500 Nitro express are not equipped with automatic safeties because they are designed for dangerous game when the need for quick reloading and follow-up shots are critical”.

This is the normal condition for double rifles designed for hunting of dangerous game. Of course the rifles that are made to order are fitted the way the buyer wants them. So if you buy a double rifle by chambering, it will usually be shipped with a manual safety, if it is chambered for a dangerous game cartridge, unless you specify a desire for an auto safety.

My preference is for the manual safety on a double rifle that is chambered for any cartridge larger than a 30 caliber deer type cartridge. Like ejectors vs extractors, I can live with either auto safety vs manual, but on the safety my preference is for the manual.


....................................................................

Hi Mac,
I think the question answers itself, it "automatically" defaults to safe. I own both, if my Osborne ever needs work, I will have it fixed while being worked on.

Regards,

Steve

That's a nice double rifle and in a great caliber. As a side note, I own Jack Lott's old brass case 8 bore Rodda double rifle. I need to shoot that some day!

quote:

Originally posted by GDavidson:
That's a nice double rifle and in a great caliber. As a side note, I own Jack Lott's old brass case 8 bore Rodda double rifle. I need to shoot that some day!

Do you want Cal's address now or just wait for him to call you?

quote:

Originally posted by GDavidson:
That's a nice double rifle and in a great caliber. As a side note, I own Jack Lott's old brass case 8 bore Rodda double rifle. I need to shoot that some day!

GD:
When I get ready to pass it on do you want me to contact you? It may be sooner rather than later as yesterday I got wind of a Scott .475 no2 side lock ejector that may come up.
Cheers,
Cal

and nicely engraved...

Cal:
If you pass on the .475 side lock let me know.


Dutch

Nice rifle


As far as shootaway goes, he has been here for years and makes very little sense with his left field comments. I am more surprised he can still get a rise out of regulars here than what he actually types. Heck, I wouldn't be surprised if shootaway is Saeed or Walter's troll account. It would certainly be the Internet joke of the decade!

thanks Cal but I am double rifled out now until I sell something. How do I order a British Bore Rifle book from you ?

quote:

Originally posted by Duckear:
Nice rifle


As far as shootaway goes, he has been here for years and makes very little sense with his left field comments. I am more surprised he can still get a rise out of regulars here than what he actually types. Heck, I wouldn't be surprised if shootaway is Saeed or Walter's troll account. It would certainly be the Internet joke of the decade!

Nope. Not Saeed or Walter's troll account. I know exactly who he is. Name is George Bazos. Hunts with the same guys I do. Met him in Reno last year. Walked away before things got ugly. His comments are his real personality. He's an asshole! All there is to it!

GD:
No worries.
Email me a pappas@mtaonline.net and I will give you the order details. Books are 90 and post to your US address is 15. With the BBR, my .600 book is 1/2 price or 35 with no additional postage.

I believe I saw your 8-bore many years ago. Does jot have 22 inch barrels?
Cheers,
Cal

Yes it has 22" barrels, non rebounding and underlever hammer. Steel barrels mike at .875. I will e-mail you, thanks.

quote:

Originally posted by Nganga:

And George,

I, went out of my way on several threads to defend you, I even "went to the wall" with a couple members here. At this time I must agree with the majority.

quote:

Originally posted by Nganga:

quote:

Originally posted by Pondoro:
What a nice double this is Cal.....lovey engraving too...congrats..

Shootaway....you should be denied acces to a computer, I sincerely hope Saeed bans you soon...he is far to kind..

I have never been a fan of banning folks, but I think in this case I must agree, George adds ZERO and causes nothing but angst. I now feel duped for defending him.

If he added content and occasionally acted up I could understand. But to act with a complete lack of respect for two Gent's I personally know and would vouch for? He is just trouble.

Regards,

Steve

Steve I remember when you got all bent at me for telling George to off himself. I had also defended him a few days before, only to see him pull some crap like he has 1,000 times before(literally).

You don't have to apologize to me here. Maybe we can do it over a beer. I'll buy of course.


George has Aspergers syndrome but that is no excuse for him acting the way he does.

What happened to Jack lott?. I know he isn´t with us anymore, but when did he died?.

I have always enjoyed he articals as far back I remember. He was writing about all things things I had a great interest in.

Jens:
I think it was in the 90s. I was at a shooting range in Anchorage and folks were talking of Lott dying of cancer.
Cal

http://shootingwithhobie.blogs...writer-suicides.html

(First pop on a google. 1993 at age 73.)

'My recent interest in Phil Sharpe was instigated by a wide-spread belief that he had shot himself. Apparently, many other outdoor/shooting writers have done so. How many? Why? I had a morbid curiosity about the subject. A search ensued...

Jacques P. "Jack" Lott (b. 15 Jul 1920 d. 12 Aug 1993) - Writer, gun crank and inventor of the .458 Lott cartridge. Author of Big Bore Rifles. Friend of Frederick Russell Burnham's family and owned many of his guns. Jan Libourel has said that it was because he was "he was old, alone and in failing health".'


R.I.P. Jack Lott

Cal, great rifle with great provenance. When I was working with Jon Thomas of Gun Sport LTD. We had one of Jacks bolt guns it was a 375 H&H by H&H. The interesting thing was it was a rifle with a full length stock aka manlike style. Not something you see every day on an H&H. I did see another Lott rifle and it to was a rifle with a full length stock. I guess Jack just liked that style.
I think you should have the safety the way you want it.
The mention of Dallas reminded me it is only a couple of month’s away Cant wait.
Bill

Bill:
I will be in Dallas the 7-13th and staying at the Holiday Inn at Market Center.
I understand Lott's 8-bore will be up for sale shortly. The 22" barrels get me hot as I love short barrels on large bores. Often times I've thought of sawing off my .600 barrels to 22".

Many folks like guns and rifles owned by personalities but I was never much of a fan of Lott as it was James Watts that developed the first blown out .375 22 years prior to Lott doing it. Jim was a quiet man and never got the credit I thought he deserved. Lott was well known and ran with the idea in 1971, I think, and Watts did it in 1949.

Anyway, the .500 is off for a bit of freshening at at Griffin and Howe and hopefully it will be back by spring for our first double rifle shoot here in Alaska. I may take it hunting or I may pass it on. Don't know just yet.
Cheers,
Cal

Hi Jason,
I really don't know what to say. I'm really torn here. People with disabilities are near and dear to my heart. I naturally "go to guns" to make an attempt to defend their honor. Kids, can be really cruel to other kids with handicaps, disorders and special needs of various kinds. They cannot defend themselves, physically or verbally.

George is an adult, he needs to sink or swim on his own. I guess my fatherly instinct's to stand in front of bullies will only work, if the bullied wants it to stop.

If he really has Aspergers, he is in the Autism spectrum. Many people in that spectrum can integrate well into society. if it is Aspergers, he needs to just be ignored. I put him on ignore. I've never done that before.

I don't know what to think here Jason. Stuff like this feels like a punch to the guts. Better off to just stay away.

Respectfully to all.

Steve

quote:

Originally posted by Nganga:
Hi Jason,
I really don't know what to say. I'm really torn here. People with disabilities are near and dear to my heart. I naturally "go to guns" to make an attempt to defend their honor. Kids, can be really cruel to other kids with handicaps, disorders and special needs of various kinds. They cannot defend themselves, physically or verbally.

George is an adult, he needs to sink or swim on his own. I guess my fatherly instinct's to stand in front of bullies will only work, if the bullied wants it to stop.

If he really has Aspergers, he is in the Autism spectrum. Many people in that spectrum can integrate well into society. if it is Aspergers, he needs to just be ignored. I put him on ignore. I've never done that before.

I don't know what to think here Jason. Stuff like this feels like a punch to the guts. Better off to just stay away.

Respectfully to all.

Steve

Well stated!!

I teach / have taught many kids on the spectrum, and was / am blessed by the experience and by knowing these wonderful people. My best mate's lad is on the spectrum, and I have had the privilege this year of guiding him on his first two buffalo hunts. What I want to say is that being on the spectrum itself may make for some social awkwardness, but not usually really bad manners, at least in my experience. So far as I can tell, the kids I know and teach who are on the spectrum wouldn't wish to insult other people like we've seen here.

quote:

Originally posted by BenKK:
I teach / have taught many kids on the spectrum, and was / am blessed by the experience and by knowing these wonderful people. My best mate's lad is on the spectrum, and I have had the privilege this year of guiding him on his first two buffalo hunts. What I want to say is that being on the spectrum itself may make for some social awkwardness, but not usually really bad manners, at least in my experience. So far as I can tell, the kids I know and teach who are on the spectrum wouldn't wish to insult other people like we've seen here.

Very true.
But when you combine Asperger's Syndrome with Asshole's Syndrome, it changes the pigeon to a cat.
Cat amongst the pigeons.

Asperger's Syndrome is an Axis I diagnosis.
Asshole's Syndrome is an Axis II diagnosis,
also known as "Cluster B" Mixed Personality Disorder.
Gotta consider multiple axes, at least the first 2 of the 5.

Mr. LIHOM is a cluster-fu@%ed personality.
I bet his mother did not breast feed him.

Disclaimer: I am not a shrink. But if I did happen to be a psychiatrist, I would accept no payment from shootaway for my services. Instead, I would pay him money if he would just go away.

RIP I am not sure whether I should enlist you or avoid you as my shrink!

BTW Mark Buchanan in his video Death by Double Rifle uses at least one Watson bros. One was a 450/400. I am not sure if there was a larger bore DR as well. I need to see the video again.