If anyone is looking to get into a nice double rifle for an inexpensive price I have something. A customer sent me a JP Sauer & Sohn 16ga boxlock for a conversion but is having to delay. He is interested in passing the project along if anyone is interested. The action is in great condition as is the stock and engraving. For $3200 someone could have a nice 9.3, .375, .405 Win, or 450-400 sized double rifle that regulates properly and has a vintage look and feel.

Other options include refinishing the stock and or freshening up the checkering, removing the cheakpiece, installing recoil pad, swapping the horn trigger guard for a metal, restocking the gun, CCH the action to like new, the sky is the limit and everything other than engraving work can be accomplished by me. Please contact for more info, pictures to come.

*buyers beware conversions do not carry great resale value, but on the right action can have great user value.

Pictures. The case coloring is worn from honest use, but some still visible. No pitting or corrosion on the action metal. This gun was cared for. The stock doesn't have any serious dings or scratches, and there are no cracks in the head of the stock. The stock also draws up nicely to the action, no give.

The action has intercepting sears, cocking indicators, auto-safety, extractors, greener third bite. It does not have bushed strikers, but the firing pins are a small dia and fit tightly in the holes. Ive seen bigger that still didn't produce primer flow.

quote:

For $3200 someone could have a nice 9.3, .375, .405 Win, or 450-400 sized double rifle that regulates properly and has a vintage look and feel.

Aaron,
does the $3200 include the Sauer and the conversion to one of the listed rifle cartridges?

It does. Tax added if applicable.

There are a few things I would recommend doing like having me recut the checkering. That would add a little cost. Further use of the gun would wear the checkering down to a point where it becomes much harder to freshen the checkering up in the future.
Other stuff like replacing the trigger guard is personal.

Thanks. If done in .405 WCF, how much would the rifle weigh?

Iron sighted only or scoped? I'd like for it to finish out at around 8lbs iron sights only. I can play with weight.

The larger the bore the easier it will be to control weight. In this action the .400"ish dia bore is about as big as you want to go.

I am saving for a 20 gauge double for deer. I will have to keep you in mind.

Sounds great! This thing is getting a lot of interest.

quote:

swapping the horn trigger guard for a metal

What kind of monster are you!?!?!

really appreciate your honest comment on resale value but the cost of $3,200 (base) makes this somewhat drool worthy for future consideration for a vintage look and feel that REGULATES properly. Using a tight German BL action on a low pressure round could be a ton of fun.

PM sent.

Also PM sent

That was a big hit. I may look into purchasing other donors and convert them ahead of time.

JP Sauer is sold pending funds

Somebody should buy this so I can restock it and convert it! Of course it does have those game bird and dog scenes on the side. I know engravers too.
http://www.csmcspecials.com/product_p/25588.htm

Last bit for now. Some of my customers do this so they can obtain the unobtainable, be it an odd caliber, gun type, etc...One in particular is doing a .500 Linebaugh on a Sidelock action. He always wanted a Sidelock DR, but cant afford the real deal. No he is doing a full build, restock and conversion.

Here is a decent donor. The frame size would yield a great gun in the .333"-375" range
http://www.gunsinternational.c...cfm?gun_id=100474499

I need more info on this one, but it could be a good donor. Think .450"-.500" range.
http://www.gunsinternational.c...cfm?gun_id=100491868

Good inexpensive donor for something in the .303"-.350" range.
http://www.gunsinternational.c...cfm?gun_id=100498485

Another, intercepting sears unlikely:
http://www.gunsinternational.c...cfm?gun_id=100460195

Sidelock good for .303"-.350" range
http://www.gunsinternational.c...cfm?gun_id=100506557

Woohoo! I'm joining the DRSS with this one. Aaron is going to build me a 450-400 on this gun. Excited as hell!

Man you need to wait until after April 15th.

Aaron, what could be built on a strong 10ga?

Wow, these certainly do look like an inexpensive way to get into a very nice rifle. I'm curious what other receivers can be used. I've got a CZ Bobwhite 28 gauge that might be up for consideration. Is it useable, and if so, what caliber range would work? I'm thinking 7x57...

10 ga frames would be suited for for .577, or larger. You'd have to come be the regulation dummy.

I'm not very familiar with the Bobwhite guns. If it has a third bite and bushed strikers you're probably good. The smaller high pressure rounds will need the smaller firing pin dia commonly associated with bushed firing pins. A 28ga frame would be good for 7x57r, 7x65r, 303brit, etc...

What do you mean Ramrod? That I should wait for a tax refund and buy something more expensive? Sorry, but that one went over my head. Can you clarify?

Would the 10ga be too big for a 450NE, 500NE or a 500/465? I'm thinking about weight.

quote:

Originally posted by Aaron Little:
10 ga frames would be suited for for .577, or larger. You'd have to come be the regulation dummy.

By far, for those calibers a 12ga would be best suited. Reason being is the 10ga fences would require a bunch of barrel wall thickness at the breach, that is unless one filed the fences smaller. 12ga actions are easy to get, I have access to plenty JP Sauer 12ga. But as always, not all frame sizes are equal even in the same gauge. I have a 12ga hammer gun that could fit a .577, albeit with conservative loads.

quote:

What do you mean Ramrod? That I should wait for a tax refund and buy something more expensive? Sorry, but that one went over my head. Can you clarify?

I had missed you had bought it. Telling Aaron he needed to wait until after tax day he might have more buyers. Thought I would have $$ left over after tax day. Needing something to spend it on. But looks like I will be writing a nice check to Uncle Sam. All fun $$ on hold for the near future.

On a side note I have been considering buying up some donors and converting them to common calibers and barrel length. I would stop the work before regulating for the purpose of finding a buyer and regulating it with their loads. Prices would be $4k for a converted double regulated to your loads. Any interest?

quote:

Originally posted by Aaron Little:
On a side note I have been considering buying up some donors and converting them to common calibers and barrel length. I would stop the work before regulating for the purpose of finding a buyer and regulating it with their loads. Prices would be $4k for a converted double regulated to your loads. Any interest?

Wow! Sounds like a brilliant idea! What mad genius have you this idea?

While I'm not in a position to do one of these right now, if one popped up at the right time, I would jump on it. I really have no need for a big bore, and don't like the idea of having to invest a small fortune on hard to get brass and dies. That said, a 45-70 might peak my interest, as would smaller bores, 7mm, 30, or maybe something in the 35 range.

One should be cautioned against the aleas of using a shotgun receiver as the base to build a double rifle upon. In many countries of the old continent (Belgium included), drive hunting is the most popular hunting mode and the rifle "par excellence" to shoot at running big game is the double rifle (s/s or o/u) in 9,3x74R. For economic considerations, it is therefore not unusual to mate a pair of rifled barrels to a shotgun receiver (mostly 20 ga). True it costs only the fraction of an original double rifle, but theses savings are not devoid of risks. Indeed, many of these ersatz doubles shoot loose and off face in short order and in a way that barrel hooks, receiver, hinge pin, etc. get deformed beyond salvation.

There are several reasons for that, all deriving from the same culprit : the extremely different level of pressure respective guns are submitted to ! Let's proceed and examine the main differences :

1. shotgun and rifle receivers are submitted to different heat treatments according to their working pressure ;

2. for the same reason, receiver walls and bottoms are machined differently, rifles leaning more toward solidity, while shotguns strive for weight saving. The picture below shows 2 similar and parent receivers :


-left an FN-Browning B25 12 ga shotgun. For weight saving reasons, receiver walls are thinner and the bottom is hollowed out in a circle around the cocking lever ;
-right, an FN-Browning 9,3x74R CCS25 double rifle receiver. Walls are thicker and the bottom remains full and not machined out, making for a much more solid and rigid receiver, before being hardened much more via an appropriate heat treatment ;

Then, like in all firearms, the possibility of a blown primer or ruptured case cannot be ruled out for 100%. In the case of a double rifle, this could be serious and downright dangerous as the high pressure gasses will rush though the firing pin holes to wreck havock within the stock, uncomfortably close to where your cheek is pressed against In the following picture, you will notice (see arrows) hollow gas screws (nicely camouflaged by the engraving) behind both chambers and designed to divert escaping gasses outside of the action.


Of course, the more powerful the gun (pressure, recoil, metal fatigue,...), the higher the risk...

quote:

Originally posted by Aaron Little:
On a side note I have been considering buying up some donors and converting them to common calibers and barrel length. I would stop the work before regulating for the purpose of finding a buyer and regulating it with their loads. Prices would be $4k for a converted double regulated to your loads. Any interest?

Aaron, I have no idea what the market would be for this but it's a great idea to try out and see how people respond.

Depends on the person. One thing to consider is the purchaser's desire to pick their own caliber. Some might want a Sharps-style (45-90), others a English (400/450 BPE etc.), others 9.3x74 others 444 Marlin and so on. No idea if you picking the caliber first would limit the market.

As for me half the fun would be (will be!) finding the donor action, making sure it's good to go for a conversion to a lower pressure round appropriate for the action, etc.. It's in my plans but not my pocket book...yet...but it's in the plans. You created an addiction for me: finding a right donor. In my mind it's a shotgun with the right characteristics like third bite, etc, and one with limited life left on the tubes, 16 or 20 gauge. that's just me.

Love what you're doing.

I am extremely familiar with heat treatment of steels. Care to explain how a color case hardened double rifle receiver is subject to different hardening than a color case hardened shotgun receiver? You can't because the process and temperatures are the exact same! The only time you may see difference is with a modern heat treatable steel like 4140. Even them most actions are 40-42 on the Rockwell hardness scale.

You are correct that double rifles have thicker action bar walls than shotguns, that is why when you compare the fences between a shotgun and double rifle the double rifle will appear to have smaller fences. The reality is the fences might be the same width, just the action bar is wider making the fences smaller. Using shoe lump barrel construction it is possible to do a 450-500 on a 20ga frame and still have adequate wall thickness at the breach. Will I? No, I'd rather jump up to a 16ga frame as to have more metal in the action bar, consequently leaving more metal in the breaches. A few extra ounces of weight between your hands is acceptable.

Truthfully when doing these conversions it is best to file down the fences so one can reduce wall thickness at the breach while still keeping a wider action bar. That adds a ton of cost though.

Choosing the right action plays a big part in longevity of the gun. Your comparison using the O/u actions doesn't apply to SxS's. I wouldn't convert the one on the left either.

I see your point. Being an o/u man (I own 4 FN-Brownings : 2xB25's, 1xB525 and 1xCCS 25) I only had 2 s/s in my life, hence little experience with them. I understand they're a different breed, though.

I thought I'd see what you all think. Aaron contacted me today as it is time to make a decision on what bullet diameter I intend you use in this rifle (the JP Sauer shotgun conversion, for those who didn't start reading at the top. I will have to confess that I do not reload. At least as of yet. With that in mind, we have concluded that .410", as in all Hornady's factory 450-400's, might be the best choice for me.

What do you all think?

Well, having read the books, heard about the recent sale - I have to say there is no contest.


450-400 it has got to be!

http://www.africahunting.com/t...oxlock-double.18472/

Rgds

Ian

I think they cartridge has plenty of merit. It is also a good place to start with a DR.

Factory ammo is available and with 400gr bullets packs quite a punch. There are plenty of bullets out there and brass is available.

Do it (450-400)! However, I bet you already made the decision.

My opinion only: if you're doing the conversion to save money AND you want to shoot a lot, then have to buy factory loads, you're going to spend a big pile in ammo costs. If you don't plan to shoot it a ton, not as big a deal.

If it were me I'd ask if Aaron can work up a handload for the 450-400 and regulate to that load. Maybe that's what he's doing anyway.

The last DR I had required odd diameter bullets that cost about a buck a piece from Hawk, about the same as .410 or .375 bullets. However, it was way less than buying factory ammo.

Can wait to see more pics.

quote:

Originally posted by Andre Mertens:
One should be cautioned against the aleas of using a shotgun receiver as the base to build a double rifle upon. True it costs only the fraction of an original double rifle, but theses savings are not devoid of risks.


1. shotgun and rifle receivers are submitted to different heat treatments according to their working pressure ;

2. for the same reason, receiver walls and bottoms are machined differently, rifles leaning more toward solidity, while shotguns strive for weight saving.

Andre is correct in all his points in his post! That being said,I'm sure everyone around this part of Texas knows Aaron is well aware of the heat treatment of steel in actions, and the machining is evident to the trained eye of a machinist. So I would say Aaron is quite capable of assessing the donor action's quality for conversion.

I, for one, would definitely be interested in one of his conversions.

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Should we tell Andre that the first years Butch built DR's they were based on Browning BSS's?
Mine was a 470.

Nah.

quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:
Should we tell Andre that the first years Butch built DR's they were based on Browning BSS's?
Mine was a 470.

Nah.

...and many of those old 470s built on the BSS action are still shooting in the field after thousands of rounds fired through them with no problem at all!

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