My ability to contribute to this new forum is certainly limited, as I do not have the years of experience many of you guys have reloading for and shooting DR. However, I thought I would share some experience I gained about loading for my Merkel 470 NE, possibly it may add to the discussion here. I certainly hope so...

My sources of information were past posts here on AR, G. Wrights book on Doubles, A-Square Manual, and other reloading manuals and articles concerning the 470 NE and DR. The late George Hoffman's postings here on AR provided the basis for my experimentation with H-4831sc. In fact RIP, who post here on AR, tested my loads and results, achieveing excellant results...ultimately RIP thought they were so good he called nicknamed them after Mr. Hoffman. Mr. Hoffman noted the use of this powder witout fillers and fillers were something I wanted to avoid.

My loads use the following:
1) Norma 470NE Brass
2) Federal 215 Match Grade Primers
3) H-4831sc, I settled on 110grains of this powder after starting at 108grains, no filler required...which is the nice part of this.
4) I worked up this load with the following bullets a) North Fork 500grain Cup Points. average velocity 2170fps b) Woodleigh 500grain Softs. average velocity 2100fps c) Barnes 500grain Banded Solids 2130fps. 110grains H-4831sc in all these loads.
5) I use RCBS 470NE dies.

All three loads shoot to the same POA in my Merkel at 50 and 100yds, at least to DR standards. These loads also shot well in a Chapius and Searcy. I have no knowledge of how they will shoot in a vintage DR and obviously one should start at a lower powder charge and work up. I have loaded up to 111grains of H4831sc and actually that load shoots a bit better than the 110 but why push past the velocities I achieved with 110grains.

Merkels have a 23.5" barrels, so if you have longer barrels you may get higher velocities or need to adjust the load downward to achieve best results. These loads were chronographed at temp. range of 85F degress.

Some others who post here may have tried this load and could possibly add more information. Anyway, thought I would provide the forum my limited experience with loading the 470NE.

Notes: I contacted Merkel and they advised that mono-metals, if approved by the manufacturer of such bullets for use in DR, is acceptable to use in Merkel DR. My understanding is that Chapius does not approve the use of mono-metals in their DR, so check with manufacture before using mono-metal bullets. If I had a vintage DR, I would be very cautious about the use of mono-metal bullets. These loads are for my own use and if you use this information please do so with caution and start with a lower loading. I would refer you to the A-Square manual that provides basic information using H-4831 for the 470NE and their bullet, as a guide.

I hope this is useful information to some of you guys.

jjs, a very well written, and informative post! I believe it to be of value to those loading for the 470NE in Merkel, and other rifles. The use of all mono-metal bullets is not verbotton in all double rifles, and in some cases is a matter of personal risk to the user who is not careful, as most handloading for souble rifles, and OLD rifles of any kind. That said, I will use North Fork FLP, and CUP mono-metal bullets, and may the GS Custom, in my "NEW" doubles. Others may do as it suits them, but I will not use a mono-metal bullet in any of my old doubles!

Thanks for the post, as I believe it was carried out in the proper manner, and will be a good guide for those in need of loading data for the 470NE! Good show!

jjs: Thanks for the load data; I have a Chapuis, and use a very similar load.

jjs,
Thanks for recalling my christening of your H4831SC load the "George Hoffman Load."

I used 110 grains with the shorter Woodleigh and Barnes RNSP bullets, and 109 grains with the longer GSC FN and the original Jack Carter Trophy Bonded Sledge Hammer, the bullet our Merkels were regulated with at the factory.

I forgot how accurate they were, so I must update my bragging group for this .470 NE Merkel. They were better than the RL-15 with filler.

H4831SC:


It appears the sweet spot is 2138 fps for me with this bullet, two in one hole at 50 meters. They are crossing here, but it works for me!

I am curious whether there is any perceived benefit of the 110.0 gr. H4831 load versus the 106.0 gr. IMR4831 load.

quote:

Originally posted by 500grains:
I am curious whether there is any perceived benefit of the 110.0 gr. H4831 load versus the 106.0 gr. IMR4831 load.

500grains,
The IMR-4831 is a sound choice, HOWEVER, there are 2 good reasons to choose H4831SC instead:

1. Better temperature insensitivity: Less velocity/pressure change with temperature change. DR's are sensitive to velocity and pressure, eh? H4831SC is better than RL-15 in this regard also.

2. Better metering with H4831SC: It is indeed a shortcut/timesaver to use the "Short Cut" powder.

I wouldn't presume to say IMR-4831 was not as accurate as H4831SC, but no way is it better in that regard.

With either of the 4831's you don't have to mess with a filler, so they both get a nod in that regard.

Regards,

RIP & 500grains:

I think RIP covered most of my initial thoughts on the possibly advantages of H-4831sc over other powders in the 470NE. A couple more possibly advantages/disadvantages:

1) I have not used IMR 4831 so I am unsure about which powder (H-4831sc or IMR 4831) would achieve filling case capacity better, that may be a possible advantage of H-4831sc given the loads listed in this thread. My preference has been to take up as much case capacity as possible but avoiding too much compaction of the powder.

2) Recoil is another aspect to consider. I have heard and read that slower burning powders, say slower than RL 15, may produce more recoil. I have shot the Federal factory loads (loaded with RL 15, I think) and I could not really say the recoil of the slower burning powder (in this case H-4831sc) was much of a difference.

3) RIP and I noted velocities and although our results are somewhat different (which can be attributed to many different factors and not the load) they appear fairly consistent.

What chronographed velocity results have you (500grains or others here) noted with the IMR 4831 load noted above?

Has anyone actually chronographed the original Cordite loads? or the Federal factory loads? It seems like I read somewhere that the Cordite loads only went 2050 ish in a 24" bbl.
Thoughts?

It has been some time since I chronographed the Federal factory loads and I did not right the info. down as I knew I would be reloading. I was chronographing them to get a velocity target for my reloads.

If my memory is correct the Federal TB Solids clocked in at about 2150fps out of my 23.5" Merkel. Newly manufactured DR are usually regulated to the Federal stuff ...My Merkel was regulated to with the Federal TB Solid load.