Let me first say, I don't NEED a double rifle, however . . . . a couple have come on the scene and I may have an option on one or the other, possibly both. Both are Sabatti's, one in 450/400 and one in 450 NE. One has ejectors, the other extractors. Both have been to the Dark Continent and have the notches in the stock to prove it (metaphorically speaking). These guns were bought with the idea of 'one and done' - purchased and taken to Africa specifically for cape buffalo and elephant, with the idea of selling them after the current owner's return.

As I said, I may have an option on one or both. Either caliber would suffice for me, as my purpose is similar to the current owners. FWIW, I've handled and shot both.

If you were buying a double rifle, would you opt for extractor or ejectors?

Note: I have read and am well aware of the Sabatti muzzle grinding to regulate issue.

How much is a used Sabatti?

Ejectors.

quote:

Originally posted by Nganga:
How much is a used Sabatti?

that shoots

This sort of question is like asking about blondes or brunettes, it is really a personal preference item. I have doubles with extractors and doubles with ejectors. I prefer the extractors. I suspect that is a minority view.

Go ejectors and don't get in the habit of catching the brass. Let it fly and look for it later.

How much is a used Sabatti

quote:

Originally posted by Nganga:
How much is a used Sabatti

Haven't gotten down to the 'brass tacks' or discussion of $$ yet. I was within ear-shot of conversation where mention wa made of 'selling it for enough to cover my taxidermy bill on the buff'.

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
This sort of question is like asking about blondes or brunettes, it is really a personal preference item. I have doubles with extractors and doubles with ejectors. I prefer the extractors. I suspect that is a minority view.

I agree. I prefer extractors too.

quote:

Originally posted by 2Barrels:

quote:

Originally posted by Nganga:
How much is a used Sabatti

Haven't gotten down to the 'brass tacks' or discussion of $$ yet. I was within ear-shot of conversation where mention wa made of 'selling it for enough to cover my taxidermy bill on the buff'.

Guess that would be about $1,500 bucks I guess. Too much in my opinion for a piece of shit with ground out crowns and a Turkish action.

Take the ejectors. You can always disconnect them if the guys on AR shame you into hating them.

Who knows, next week ejectors may be loved.

quote:

Originally posted by Dark Continent:
Guess that would be about $1,500 bucks I guess. Too much in my opinion for a piece of shit with ground out crowns and a Turkish action.

But would you want ejectors or extractors on your 'piece if $hit with ground out crowns and a Turkish action'?

quote:

Originally posted by 2Barrels:

quote:

Originally posted by Dark Continent:
Guess that would be about $1,500 bucks I guess. Too much in my opinion for a piece of shit with ground out crowns and a Turkish action.

But would you want ejectors or extractors on your 'piece if $hit with ground out crowns and a Turkish action'?

I don't want either one. Sabattis are useless junk. Save your money for something worth buying.

"FWIW, I've handled and shot both."


2 Barrels.

Firstly, before deciding on ejectors or extractors, Do the guns shoot - because if they don't, then the question you asked becomes totally irrelevant.

2ndly, do the guns have ground muzzles ? If so, I personally would stay away.

If not, AND they shoot 100%, then proceed with caution.


Just my HO.


Oh, and buy which gun feels best in the hand to you and the one you shoot the best.

.

quote:

Originally posted by Dark Continent:

But would you want ejectors or extractors on your 'piece if $hit with ground out crowns and a Turkish action'?

Appreciate your input DC, but FWIW, I didn't ask for anyone's opinion - yours included - on the Sabatti DRs. I simply asked about the choice between ejectors and extractors, mentioning that I MIGHT have an OPTION on a Sabatti.

Regardless of your opinion on a the Sabatti's, I'll make the decision on my end, with my money, when if the time comes.

However, if you are dead set against anyone owning a Sabatti (based on your personal experience, no doubt), I will gladly forward a copy of my FFL, which in turn you can use to send me the Heym, or V-C double rifle of your choice, free of charge.

Have a great day.

Both of my doubles are extractor rifles. I have no issues at all with either.

Ejectors are typically around a $1500-2000 option and I am not convinced the additonal cost is worth it (at least in my lowly opinion).

But it is cool to watch those big pieces of brass flying through the air.

BTW none of us NEED a double either, but they are fun to shoot and especially to hunt with.

Good luck with your decision.

Extractors myself - must say I never owned gun/rifle with ejectors...before all I like to operate any weapon as silently as possible - first shot report doesn't give you up - ping of ejector that follows sure does...but resale value of a rifle with ejectors should be higher, so Will's advice is a sound one.

I have ejectors on my Sabatti. Just went with the fact that I did not want to be pulling brass in a situation where I needed to reload quickly. Probably doesn't happen that often with a double (quick reload needed), but like to know that extra speed\time is there. It mainly is a personal opinion but the ejectors would run a little more $.

I use a combination gun in 7x65R that is a non ejector - in practice it is a single shot, but it is very quick and silent to reload - open and flick of the wrist and case falls out. Drop in a new one and next shot is there. On a couple of occasions I have needed a second shot quickly on deer at closish range - once to drop a calf just after I had taken the hind (so as not to leave an orphan calf over the winter) and other for a follow up shot when deer didn't drop immediatley. OK not the same as a buff charging towards you, but my suggestions would go with which ever rifle fits you better, feels more natural etc and frankly the one which feel most confident in placing that first shot in the correct spot - if it has ejectors great, of not would n't worry about it.

With a shotgun I have both ejectors and non ejectors and on on driven days I have used a non-ejector and can reload more than fast enough - the secret is not to wait around until you have an empty gun to reload - reload as soon as you have fired a shot. The key is practice and you should be able to reload without looking at the gun.

I went with extractors on my Sabatti 450NE. Plenty fast to reload although that hopefully won't be an issue since the rifle shoots so well I hope to be "one and done".

Good luck with which ever one you choose.

I have double rifles with both systems, and I don't find either better than the other!

When I bought my doubles, the conventional wisdom was extractors. Now that opinion seems to have softened somewhat, at least based on the above posts. Previously, ejectors were the first step on the road to perdition! The whole point of a double was to have, basically, two rifles, with the exception that a failure to eject eg. the ejector rides over the rim, gives you a rather ineffective club. Ejectors are certainly faster. My O/U in 9.3x74 has them and it is fast to reload. You don't have to tip the rifle over to one side to remove the spent cases. If I had to do it over, for my DG guns, I would seriously consider ejectors if it were an option. Shoot 4 rounds with each type of gun!
Peter.

With ejectors, does the spent brass fly over your head, or hit you in the face?

quote:

Originally posted by Ontario Nimrod:
With ejectors, does the spent brass fly over your head, or hit you in the face?

In most cases neither unless you hold the gun so it does.


The way I hold my gun, it flies past my right arm between the elbow
and the shoulder.

.

Since I will never be in the middle of a herd of elephants thinning down the herd give me ejectors any day of the week.

As a plus it is kind of cool watching both cases pop out and hit the dirt within inches of each other when you are shooting at the range

Where is the age-old argument that extractors are faster than ejectors?

I always love to hear that tale.

quote:

Originally posted by Peter:
When I bought my doubles, the conventional wisdom was extractors. Now that opinion seems to have softened somewhat, at least based on the above posts. Previously, ejectors were the first step on the road to perdition!

quote:

Point #1The whole point of a double was to have, basically, two rifles,

point #2 with the exception that a failure to eject eg. the ejector rides over the rim,

Point #3gives you a rather ineffective club. [color:GREEN]

Peter you sure your not a mafia defense lawyer? You can twist, turn, and bend information so well the original info is not even recognizable! The above in bold (by me) covers several different things but are thrown together as if they are all one thing. IOW smoke and mirrors
[COLOR:RED]Point #1 in red: should read after the word “rifles” (on the same stock) , and the reason is each of these rifles on that same stock should be totally independent of each other! point #2 is in regard to ejectors only where rimless/ belted rimless cartridges, and the objection is the same in this case with extractors Point #3 is in regard to any one thing that will effect the ability to fire if it breaks! LIKE A SINGLE TRIGGER! (Hello Will)

quote:

Ejectors are certainly faster. My O/U in 9.3x74 has them and it is fast to reload. You don't have to tip the rifle over to one side to remove the spent cases. If I had to do it over, for my DG guns, I would seriously consider ejectors if it were an option. Shoot 4 rounds with each type of gun!
Peter.

I agree with the fact that selective ejectors are faster in most case than extractors, not enough to justify $1500 more for them on real big bore doubles. The old ivory hunters who had the habit of working their way into the middle of an elephant herd, and take as many as he could before regained their composure and bolted for the North 40. It was not the speed they were concerned with but the “PING” of the empties being tossed, marking their position for the other elephants. One other thing in favor of extractors, with elephant hunters, is the rifle closes far easier and quieter because the barrels do not have to cock the ejector hammer springs with their attendant metallic “CLICKS”. IMO the only place, today, that is a concern is when hunting tuskless cows in a herd and tight cover! I don’t believe this is a problem with buffalo, now or ever has been. However Taylor thought it was a problem with elephant. I don’t think anyone here is qualified to discount what Taylor had to say about elephant hunting with a double rifle, except maybe Will who tought Taylor everything he knew about ellephant hunting with all rifles!

No I don’t think opinions have softened in regard to the proper set-up of DGR rifle of any kind, not just doubles. Improperly set-up DGRs will kill all the dangerous 8 or 10 of the world, but they can also get you bit, scratched and stomped!

I personally prefer extractors on big bore doubles, and ejectors on small-bore doubles!
…………………………………………………..

FWIW - IMO there is more to it.

First I appologize since I haven't read Taylor - yet, but I am looking very much forward to it according to what I've heard already.

If you spend enough time in the bush (wherever it is - US, EU, Africa...) you will sooner or later adopt the certain idea/pattern of a double rifle - at least thats how I see it now.

1. Double rifle isn't just plain R-L - bang/bang - you name it thing - it could and can be but IMO one is missing the best part.

2. There is a hierarchy there - R barrel is doing the majority of shooting, hunting - as long as you don't rely on L barrel automatically and the R barrel becomes just an uverture to the L barrel...so make sure that R barrel counts right from the beginning - try to see it as a single shot rifle.

3. L barrel is the whole point of a double rifle - it is a major player that separates a double rifle from any single barreled weapon. It is an Apple of a daddy's eye, a bingo or an ace up your sleeve...it is your rain check and should be used accordingly - IMO.

Now a couple of field aplications.
Shooting at a buffalo that is either with a herd or with a couple of dugga boys. Shot rings out and if they weren't aware of your presence prior the shot they might very likely to jump and bump up all together and try to determine where the shot came from - there is a 2 nd chance of a succes or failure arising - what do you do?

1. Break your ejector rifle and reload your right barrel, pinging and clicking on the way, that will most likely send the quarry running away or worse charging toward you - you are losing opportunity to get another one into your quary or even only one in case you missed...

2. Wait with R barrel empty for situation to clear the wounded/missed dagga boy, and let loose the L barrel - leaving you with an empty rifle...

3. Silently break your extractor rifle and reload your R barrel, leaving your quarry undetermined floating in the dark, while you are ready with both barrels to deal with whatever may follow...

Next - buffalo or whatever DG that you wounded escapes into thicket and awaits you. PH spots it and you aim then let lose with your R barrel. After that the animal will either:

1. Come after you and you cash in your rain check - L barrel...no need for ejectors or extractors - no time...

2. Runs off - and you cash in your rain check - L barrel...no need for ejectors or extractors - no time...

3. Stands, undecided, dissoriented (thats what single shot does)...don't make a mistake and let the L barrel lose (I'll always remember Alan Shearer...), reload the R barrel and shoot again with R barrel, repeat untill scenario 1 or 2 evolve or animal dies...

I guess no need to guess what type of double I'd rather have in case of No 3 scenario...ofcourse one can always try to pull it through pingin and clickin...not me.

Huh?

Mouse


I think you need to be a bit clearer. Too many questions mixed up.


Anyway, if you go after a wounded Buff with only one barrel, your choice.

Herds of buff (Water buffalo) do hear the cocking and the ejector spring
as when I have helped wipe out herds, we often get one or two shots off and they
mingle around, not knowing what to do or which way to run and of course
we are reloading before weighing into them again. They tend to hear the ping
et al and look at us. The second round of shots and they are off.

Mouse93,
I follow your meaning. Extractors yield SILENT reloading,
at the tactically best time, whether it's reloading just
the right bbl, (first shot) as the left still has a live
round in it, or reloading both because you've fired your
first round, AND your second round quickly followed; be-
cause it was needed for a charge or fleeing target.

2Barrel, I would put more consideration into the caliber of the rifle than the system for getting the empties out of the chamber. For me, it would be the 450, which has sufficient power for any game, and has plenty of available bullets to try to fine-tune accuracy. The 450-400 has its proponents, particularly for those sensitive to recoil, but I don't know that it has the power to reliably anchor Elephant and Buffalo as well as the 450.

I do remember Pondoro writing about the "ping" of ejectors but as I recall in his writings he was always giving the ol one-two, handing off his double for a freshly reloaded one from Soduko or another gun-bearer or tracker.

Wouldn't make a difference which you had if you had a few doubles and someone else reloading them. As far as the "ping" I guess no bolt action would be safe for elephant hunting (even the favored CRF) as cycling the bolt has associated clicks, snaps and ping when cycled.

Yeah, it's amazing how these old adages keep om surfacing all the time.

I've "pinged" in front a lot of elephant with bolt actions and doubles without a single charge or blind panic.

The blast of the shot is what can send them into orbit. But then so would I.

I prefer extractors. I don't find them that much slower than ejectors if both barrels have been fired as I just point the barrels north and the cases fall out. When reloading just the right barrel, it is a bit slower due to having to pull the case out, but it is also a bit quieter as an offset. Really a matter of opinion with neither being "Right or Wrong" in today's Elephant hunting environment. I just prefer to save the extra $1,000 or so by going with extractors.

quote:

Originally posted by Will:
Huh?

quote:

Originally posted by 500N:
Mouse
I think you need to be a bit clearer. Too many questions mixed up.

Ok, ok - lets put it this way...

Guys remember Saeeds vids? Although he has 1 in the barrel + 3 down, he always (if there is time) reloads after 1st one from his belt, leaving 3 down to be at disposal.

Same thing with double, with bonus of operating it in total silence...that is all I am saying.

I prefer ejectors AND a single trigger. Just one more operation I don't have to remember to do with the ejectors. Had a 470 Merkel with extractors and didn't particularly like it though I did shoot one elephant with it and manage to reload and get off a third and forth shot at the retreating ele. And actually hit it one shot on each side of hip joint. Total waste. I never saw an animal spin and run so quickly as this one did at the first shot. Actually missed the second shot. They also seem to trumpet pretty loudly, at least the ones I've shot so they wouldn't hear anything mechanical such as an ejector.

quote:

Originally posted by Todd Williams:
I prefer extractors. I don't find them that much slower than ejectors if both barrels have been fired as I just point the barrels north and the cases fall out. When reloading just the right barrel, it is a bit slower due to having to pull the case out, but it is also a bit quieter as an offset. Really a matter of opinion with neither being "Right or Wrong" in today's Elephant hunting environment. I just prefer to save the extra $1,000 or so by going with extractors.

Todd I can live with either, and have bg bore double fitted both ways!

As you say the speed factor is very close to ejectors with both barrels being fired for the re-load! The re-loading of only one barrel is not done while a charge is in progress, that would be one stupid move on the shooter's part. If an animal is coming you fire one, two in rappid succession, then you MUST re-load.

The reloading of only one barrel is only done when one shot has been fired and the target has moved where the second shot can't be made. That barrel is re-loaded while moving to get a clear shot, or while waiting to see wht tha animal is going to do! This doesn't require the quick re-load that a on going charge does!

Even Will will tell you that the herd doesn't always leave a downed member of their group, expecially the cows! This is usually when the animals are in dence bush! For a big bull, many time the Askaris will come to the fallen bull and guard him till they find the sourse of the problem. This is when people like Taylor reccomended re-loading after the first shot, and to be very carefull of matalic sounds while doing so! The extractor rifle was the choice of most of the old Ivory hunters, BECAUSE of this lack of sound that pin pointed the shooter's loaction!

As you say there is no "right or Wrong" here only one's preference! As I said up front If I were going to hunt elephant exclusively, then my rifle would be an extractor rifle. Since I will likely never hunt elephant even once, I can hunt what I hunt with either extractors or ejectors,as I have double fitted both ways!

The one rifle I used to own was an old Heym with a selector switch that would engage, and disingge the ejectors depending on what you were doing with the rifle! The disengagement of the ejectors is especially desirable on a fireing range. IMO all double rifle should be so fitted, and this discussion would have never seen the light of day!


..........................

quote:

The one rifle I used to own was an old Heym with a selector switch that would engage, and disingge the ejectors depending on what you were doing with the rifle! The disengagement of the ejectors is especially desirable on a fireing range. IMO all double rifle should be so fitted, and this discussion would have never seen the light of day!

Yep, they were nice.

Just for laughs, take a close look at the rifle at the bottom of my post!

That rifle is an extractor 577NE 3" Westley Richards with, of all things, a single trigger and the hands belong to Elmer Kieth! That rifle is tipical of elephant rifle of the era when that rifle was made except for the single trigger, which is uncommon on truly big bore double rifles even today! Very common,however , on small bore O/U double rifles used for deer hunting!