The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Double Rifles Brass Length & Deep Seating BulletsGo | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
| Brass Length & Deep Seating Bullets | Login/Join |
One of Us |
If you have a brand new German, French, or Texas USA made 450 NE SxS, is there any harm going to come from seating 400 grain bullets so deeply they essentially don't protrude out of the brass mouth? Why put excess powder or filler in there if you can find a load that gives good accuracy and enough power for your needs by just very deeply seating the bullet? Paper doesn't need much power. A deer deserves a thousand foot pounds at impact. {I'm aware the 450 NE uses 3.25" brass} Guys it seems to me, specifically with new production double rifles of proper quality, that the need for the three inch and longer cases is ZIP. I guess we could all be shooting 600 NE from brass length of 2.85" or even 2.75", 577 NE also, 500 NE also, & everything that starts with .4 also, and we could have safe pres- sure, the required velocity, etc. The bullets are SO superior now and the steel for the double rifles we love is greatly improved as well, compared to decades, or a century plus ago. I guess this is where my question is rooted. Thanks as always friends.  D/R Hunter Correct bullet placement, combined with the required depth of bullet penetration, results in an anchored animal... | ||
|
One of Us |
Excellent and fought provoking question. Many double rifle gents down under have experimented with increased velocity by increasing chamber pressure seating the bullet more deeply. This has been done to experiment with regulation. In the vintage years the larger cases (such as the .450 and .475 no2s) saw lower chamber pressure. I would make an educated guess that seating the bullet to the top of the powder will increase pressure. To what levels I don't know. And, it would depend on the burn rate of the powder (3031 vs. 4831 in nitro express calibers). In new rifles it would work but the added pressure may change regulation if regulated for standard ammo of that chambering. Too many variables and there are those on AR more knowledgeable than I. Have at it, gents. Cal _______________________________ Cal Pappas, Willow, Alaska www.CalPappas.com www.CalPappas.blogspot.com 1994 Zimbabwe 1997 Zimbabwe 1998 Zimbabwe 1999 Zimbabwe 1999 Namibia, Botswana, Zambia--vacation 2000 Australia 2002 South Africa 2003 South Africa 2003 Zimbabwe 2005 South Africa 2005 Zimbabwe 2006 Tanzania 2006 Zimbabwe--vacation 2007 Zimbabwe--vacation 2008 Zimbabwe 2012 Australia 2013 South Africa 2013 Zimbabwe 2013 Australia 2016 Zimbabwe 2017 Zimbabwe 2018 South Africa 2018 Zimbabwe--vacation 2019 South Africa 2019 Botswana 2019 Zimbabwe vacation 2021 South Africa 2021 South Africa (2nd hunt a month later) ______________________________ | |||
|
One of Us |
True, modern DRs are made from alloy steels and are much stronger than those of olden days, made from wrought iron or mild steel. And, true, the case capacities of old were made for cordite and contain a lot of air space, even then, for modern powders, which is why we sometimes have/like to use fillers like poly/foam. But, seating the bullets deeper is not the solution for that problem (if it is one). As stated, you would have to do pressure measurements on that, but there are other issues as well. The brass gets thicker and the bullet might bulge the case too much to chamber. And, since the bullet now has to jump a lot farther to get to the rifling, the entire barrel harmonics will be affected and so might regulation. So, could it be done? A definite Maybe. Should it be done? Probably not. Now, if you are talking about developing a line of ammo with shorter case length to avoid air space with modern powders; certainly, that will work fine. It won't sell worth a damn, but will work as you envision. | |||
|
| One of Us |
D | |||
|
| One of Us |
I have read your answers very thoroughly friends. They are excellently detailed and informative, and I thank you all for them very much. I guess I'll just stick with the "tried and tested" 75% RULE... Best regards, D/R Hunter Correct bullet placement, combined with the required depth of bullet penetration, results in an anchored animal... | |||
|
| One of Us |
D | |||
|
one of us |
Gentlemen I want to congratulate you on some well thought out and serious replies to DR Hunter's posted question. This thread is a breath of fresh air! .........................................................................  ....Mac >>>===(x)===> MacD37, ...and DUGABOY1 DRSS Charter member "If I die today, I've had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"~ME 1982 Hands of Old Elmer Keith  | |||
|
| One of Us |
Mac: I was hoping you were going to chime in here as you've forgotten more about double than most of us know. Your thoughts, please… Also, we have an open shooting station for our next shoot in June that is reserved for you Cal _______________________________ Cal Pappas, Willow, Alaska www.CalPappas.com www.CalPappas.blogspot.com 1994 Zimbabwe 1997 Zimbabwe 1998 Zimbabwe 1999 Zimbabwe 1999 Namibia, Botswana, Zambia--vacation 2000 Australia 2002 South Africa 2003 South Africa 2003 Zimbabwe 2005 South Africa 2005 Zimbabwe 2006 Tanzania 2006 Zimbabwe--vacation 2007 Zimbabwe--vacation 2008 Zimbabwe 2012 Australia 2013 South Africa 2013 Zimbabwe 2013 Australia 2016 Zimbabwe 2017 Zimbabwe 2018 South Africa 2018 Zimbabwe--vacation 2019 South Africa 2019 Botswana 2019 Zimbabwe vacation 2021 South Africa 2021 South Africa (2nd hunt a month later) ______________________________ | |||
|
One of Us |
No shoot in January?  ______________________ DRSS ______________________ Hunt Reports 2015 His & Her Leopards with Derek Littleton of Luwire Safaris - http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/2971090112 2015 Trophy Bull Elephant with CMS http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/1651069012 DIY Brooks Range Sheep Hunt 2013 - http://forums.accuratereloadin...901038191#9901038191 Zambia June/July 2012 with Andrew Baldry - Royal Kafue http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/7971064771 Zambia Sept 2010- Muchinga Safaris http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/4211096141 Namibia Sept 2010 - ARUB Safaris http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/6781076141 | |||
|
| One of Us |
Jim: My range is open to you 24-7-365. You know that. Come on up with Shootaway and Brett in January. I guarantee the barrels of your fine doubles will not over heat. Cal _______________________________ Cal Pappas, Willow, Alaska www.CalPappas.com www.CalPappas.blogspot.com 1994 Zimbabwe 1997 Zimbabwe 1998 Zimbabwe 1999 Zimbabwe 1999 Namibia, Botswana, Zambia--vacation 2000 Australia 2002 South Africa 2003 South Africa 2003 Zimbabwe 2005 South Africa 2005 Zimbabwe 2006 Tanzania 2006 Zimbabwe--vacation 2007 Zimbabwe--vacation 2008 Zimbabwe 2012 Australia 2013 South Africa 2013 Zimbabwe 2013 Australia 2016 Zimbabwe 2017 Zimbabwe 2018 South Africa 2018 Zimbabwe--vacation 2019 South Africa 2019 Botswana 2019 Zimbabwe vacation 2021 South Africa 2021 South Africa (2nd hunt a month later) ______________________________ | |||
|
| One of Us |
Brett may be too embarrassed to see you. He didn't use his Watson Bro. 500 NE on the Pronghorn Hunt and even worse......he borrowed Joyce's short stock 7 x 57.  ______________________ DRSS ______________________ Hunt Reports 2015 His & Her Leopards with Derek Littleton of Luwire Safaris - http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/2971090112 2015 Trophy Bull Elephant with CMS http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/1651069012 DIY Brooks Range Sheep Hunt 2013 - http://forums.accuratereloadin...901038191#9901038191 Zambia June/July 2012 with Andrew Baldry - Royal Kafue http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/7971064771 Zambia Sept 2010- Muchinga Safaris http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/4211096141 Namibia Sept 2010 - ARUB Safaris http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/6781076141 | |||
|
| One of Us |
75% RULE Use a bullet weighing 75% of the regulation weight, with the normal powder charge that the D/R was regulated with. Believe it or not, many, many D/R owners have found that the bullets still make nice, tight groups. And the lighter recoil makes for great deer, hog and similar game loads!!!  D/R Hunter Correct bullet placement, combined with the required depth of bullet penetration, results in an anchored animal... | |||
|
| one of us |
D R H that formula may work but that is not the 75% rule! The 75% rule is the regulating powder charge, with a bullet that weighs 75% of the weight of the normal weight bullet! IOW, this allows you to make practice loads by simply pulling the bullets from factory ammo, and saving the expensive hunting bullets replacing them with cheap reduced weight bullets like HAWK or hard cast bullets for practice or hog hunting and lower recoil at the same time. Reducing the powder charge can some times cause a flash over causing a pressure spikes. While the reduction of the bullet weight with full powder charge reduces recoil but doesn't change the muzzle flip enough the effect regulation. ...................................................................  ....Mac >>>===(x)===> MacD37, ...and DUGABOY1 DRSS Charter member "If I die today, I've had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"~ME 1982 Hands of Old Elmer Keith | |||
|
| One of Us |
D | |||
|
| One of Us |
I use Hornandy 350 grain bullets in my 450 3 1/4 as practice bullets with the same full load of IMR 4831 that I use for Woodleigh 480 grain. Pretty close to same POI. ______________________ DRSS ______________________ Hunt Reports 2015 His & Her Leopards with Derek Littleton of Luwire Safaris - http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/2971090112 2015 Trophy Bull Elephant with CMS http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/1651069012 DIY Brooks Range Sheep Hunt 2013 - http://forums.accuratereloadin...901038191#9901038191 Zambia June/July 2012 with Andrew Baldry - Royal Kafue http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/7971064771 Zambia Sept 2010- Muchinga Safaris http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/4211096141 Namibia Sept 2010 - ARUB Safaris http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/6781076141 | |||
|
| One of Us |
D | |||
|
| One of Us |
I never chrono'd the 350's. I use 97.5 gr. of IMR 4831, same that I use for the 480 gr. Woodleighs. ______________________ DRSS ______________________ Hunt Reports 2015 His & Her Leopards with Derek Littleton of Luwire Safaris - http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/2971090112 2015 Trophy Bull Elephant with CMS http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/1651069012 DIY Brooks Range Sheep Hunt 2013 - http://forums.accuratereloadin...901038191#9901038191 Zambia June/July 2012 with Andrew Baldry - Royal Kafue http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/7971064771 Zambia Sept 2010- Muchinga Safaris http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/4211096141 Namibia Sept 2010 - ARUB Safaris http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/6781076141 | |||
|
| one of us |
According to The Handloader’s Manual of Cartridges Conversions by John J. Donnelly: 450 NE 3 ¼ inch case capacity in grs of water = 136.04 45-120 case capacity in grs of water=113.04 There is 23 grs less case capacity of water makes the 45-120 a lot slimmer case, which will cause far more chamber pressure than with the 450NE with the same powder/bullet load. In a Sharps rifle it doesn’t matter but in a double rifle it may. In any case, because with the 75% rule, all that is concerned is regulation, the two cartridges are not that comparable because the Sharps has no worry about regulation! I don't think deep seating the bullet is is the answer since the proper use of the 75% rule works so well. Of course a little tweaking may be needed to make the load give it's best for your particular rifle! ....................................................................  ....Mac >>>===(x)===> MacD37, ...and DUGABOY1 DRSS Charter member "If I die today, I've had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"~ME 1982 Hands of Old Elmer Keith | |||
|
| One of Us |
D | |||
|
| One of Us |
Yes MAC! Thank you for turning my thoughts around correctly. My mental compass had flip-flopped on me at the time I was typing the 75% rule post. I'll go back now and edit it for everyone's well being in the future!!!!!!!! D/R Hunter Correct bullet placement, combined with the required depth of bullet penetration, results in an anchored animal... | |||
|
| one of us |
NOAGONAGIN, you are absolutely right Kentucky windage solves a multitude of screw-ups but is a make-do at best! However there is no need to have to shoot a double rifle like you are changing single shot rifles for each shot! The double rifle properly regulated shooting properly regulating ammo can be done with both loads, the 75% bullet weight and the full weight bullet with just a little understanding of what regulation means! That is both barrels shooting side by side or one over the other ,depending on S/S or O/U within a workable composite group of both barrels. Shooting parallel no matter the range. The whole idea of a 75% rule load is to have the double rifle shoot properly with a lighter bullet for paper punching, or hunting smaller game the same way it does with your full loads. If one must use a different sight setting for each barrel then why not just hunt with a single barrel rifle and be done with it. The 75% rule is not looking for any particular speed, but a working regulation of the load! If each barrel shoots to another place on the target then that is not what the 75% rule is looking for! I have seven double rifles and every one of them has a full load, and a 75% load that regulates properly with one sight hold on the target! Any one can work up a load the will be accurate in each barrel, but not everyone can make both barrels shoot to the same POI out of a double rifle however. .................................................................................  ....Mac >>>===(x)===> MacD37, ...and DUGABOY1 DRSS Charter member "If I die today, I've had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"~ME 1982 Hands of Old Elmer Keith | |||
|
| One of Us |
D | |||
|
| one of us |
I await your acquisition of a fine double rifle! I think it will open your eyes to some of what has been posted in this thread! Once you get into working with double rifles there is one thing that will become as clear as Chrystal. The double rifle has a whole different personality than any single barreled rifle. You will have to start back at zero and learn a completely different set of rules! You will be welcome in the DRSS! ....Mac >>>===(x)===> MacD37, ...and DUGABOY1 DRSS Charter member "If I die today, I've had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"~ME 1982 Hands of Old Elmer Keith | |||
|
| One of Us |
D | |||
|
| one of us |
....Mac >>>===(x)===> MacD37, ...and DUGABOY1 DRSS Charter member "If I die today, I've had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"~ME 1982 Hands of Old Elmer Keith | |||
|
| one of us |
Assuming they regulated their rifles at all!
First off, the double rifle’s barrels are not regulated at any distance. The barrels are regulated to shoot parallel no matter the range. The sights are regulated for elevation and windage at 50 yds. for the center of the composite group of both barrels. The barrel regulation is the same at 50 yds as it is a 200 yds with barrels shooting parallel, with elevation being the only difference. Of course like any rifle if the regulation is making a 2 inch composite group at 50 yds, it will spread to 3 or 4 inches for both barrels at 100 yds. In a perfect world no two barrels will ever make the same size group on the target! If say the right barrel will make a 1 inch four shot group the other barrel may make a 1.25 four shot group. For this we will just say each barrel is shooting a 1 inch group at 50 yds. The key to a properly regulated double rifle is finding the CENTER of each barrels individual 4 shot group, and what you want to move is the CENTER of each barrel’s individual group, not bullet holes, in relation to aiming point on the target all shots fired from cool barrels. The two shot test targets that come from the maker are worthless! The only tell you that two bullets hit the target. They don’t tell you which bullet hole came from which barrel, and they don’t tell you where the center of each individual group is or the size of the composite group of both barrels. IOW, they are nothing more than window dressing for a buyer who probably doesn’t know the difference anyway. Here let me caution you, you need to hold the rifle barrels at the end toward the muzzles of the fore grip, and rest the back of your hand on a sand bag not the rifle. The double rifle is designed to be shot from hunting positions off hand and the rifle should not touch anything but the shooter’s hands, face and shoulder while shooting. The rifle must be allowed to move freely under recoil to shoot to regulation. The barrels movement under recoil is what makes the rifle shoot to regulation. In the example above if the aiming point on the target is half way between centers of each barrel’s individual group the rifle is shooting a regulating load. With the barrels shooting a 1 inch, and in most cases a 450NE double rifle the centers of each barrels bore will be 1 inch apart. That means the centers of each barrels individual group should be ½ inch away from the point of aim on its’ own side of the composite group of both barrels. That translates to a 2 inch composite group @ 50 yds, but that is in a perfect world, and you and I both know there is no such thing as a perfect world. I reality if you can get a consistent composite group of under 3 inches at 50 yds from a bench, resting only your forehand on the bag , you have a real good regulating load. The double rifle is designed to be shot instinctively, and that is why the fitting of the rifle to the buyer is so important. The fact is, the double rifle is not a bench rifle, and should not be approached as such. You need to forget all the crap about single barreled rifles because none of it applies to double rifles. The size of the composite group to shoot for with the 75% rule is the same size as with a full load and full weight bullet. The 75% rule is a STARTING point thyat can be adjusted slightly to get the best composite group as near to the full load as possible. It will usually be a little high or low on the target but workable for practice. The double rifle is a simple rifle in use, that is a very complex rifle to build, and understand. The double rifle works by it’s own rules, and those do not apply to any other type of firearm! In my experience the people who are very well versed on swingle barreled rifles, and especially those who are target shooters seem to be the folks that are hardest to get to understand the double barreled rifle’s idiosyncrasies. Most of those folks have spent their whole adult lives learning the ins and outs of high velocity target rifles, and are reluctant to believe what makes a double rifle tick like a fine clock. The larger groups are upsetting to them, but when a cape buffalo or big lion charges them from close quarters that old school double rifle will be a far better tool that the most accurate target rifle ever invented! ………………….Over and out!  ....Mac >>>===(x)===> MacD37, ...and DUGABOY1 DRSS Charter member "If I die today, I've had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"~ME 1982 Hands of Old Elmer Keith | |||
|
| one of us |
I'm sorry you think that, because you didn't step on any toes here! In all my posts, what I've been trying to get across to you is. the groups you are striving for make no difference where double rifles are concerned. You can, by loading, get the tightest group by working with one barrel at a time. Once you have both barrels shooting as tight as you can, it makes little difference in practical terms if the load you have come up with doesn't regulate into a workable composite group of both barrels. The best composite group you can get that regulates is what you must live with, or go back to single barreled rifles. IOW,the double rifle lives by it's own set of rules plain and simple! I don't know where you live, but if you are close by, you are welcome to shoot some of my doubles ....Mac >>>===(x)===> MacD37, ...and DUGABOY1 DRSS Charter member "If I die today, I've had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"~ME 1982 Hands of Old Elmer Keith | |||
|
| One of Us |
MAC: To change the subject a bit. It would be in interesting piece if you'd write on your double purchases in the 1950-60s as to price, what was available, ammo, reloading etc., in days too early for most of us. I'm 59 and bought my first double in 1989. It would be nice to learn about the topic from 35 years prior. I would put it in the first issue of my magazine on doubles! Hope to see you in AK someday. Cal _______________________________ Cal Pappas, Willow, Alaska www.CalPappas.com www.CalPappas.blogspot.com 1994 Zimbabwe 1997 Zimbabwe 1998 Zimbabwe 1999 Zimbabwe 1999 Namibia, Botswana, Zambia--vacation 2000 Australia 2002 South Africa 2003 South Africa 2003 Zimbabwe 2005 South Africa 2005 Zimbabwe 2006 Tanzania 2006 Zimbabwe--vacation 2007 Zimbabwe--vacation 2008 Zimbabwe 2012 Australia 2013 South Africa 2013 Zimbabwe 2013 Australia 2016 Zimbabwe 2017 Zimbabwe 2018 South Africa 2018 Zimbabwe--vacation 2019 South Africa 2019 Botswana 2019 Zimbabwe vacation 2021 South Africa 2021 South Africa (2nd hunt a month later) ______________________________ | |||
|
| one of us |
Cal I'd be happy to write something about those years. Give me a little time as most will be from a 77 yr old memory, along with what old load data records I can find in my junk room as my wife calls my office! I wanted to get up to Willow this year but unfortunately we had a couple of deaths in the family, and We had to do some traveling at that time! I had planed to come up, and get a black bear tag, and a fishing license and do a little fishing while working the streams for a good bear, but "Death and Taxes" interferes with life at times. .................................................................. ....Mac >>>===(x)===> MacD37, ...and DUGABOY1 DRSS Charter member "If I die today, I've had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"~ME 1982 Hands of Old Elmer Keith | |||
|
| One of Us |
MAC: If you come up in 2015 to hunt and fish, stay at my place if you like to save on a hotel. I'm in good bear and fishing country. Cal _______________________________ Cal Pappas, Willow, Alaska www.CalPappas.com www.CalPappas.blogspot.com 1994 Zimbabwe 1997 Zimbabwe 1998 Zimbabwe 1999 Zimbabwe 1999 Namibia, Botswana, Zambia--vacation 2000 Australia 2002 South Africa 2003 South Africa 2003 Zimbabwe 2005 South Africa 2005 Zimbabwe 2006 Tanzania 2006 Zimbabwe--vacation 2007 Zimbabwe--vacation 2008 Zimbabwe 2012 Australia 2013 South Africa 2013 Zimbabwe 2013 Australia 2016 Zimbabwe 2017 Zimbabwe 2018 South Africa 2018 Zimbabwe--vacation 2019 South Africa 2019 Botswana 2019 Zimbabwe vacation 2021 South Africa 2021 South Africa (2nd hunt a month later) ______________________________ | |||
|
One of Us |
AND if and when you wander up her Mac, we'll get the gang together for a serious shoot up at Cal's castle. NRA Life ASSRA Life DRSS Today's Quote: Give a man a fish and he eats for a day. Give a man a welfare check, a free cell phone with free monthly minutes, food stamps, section 8 housing, a forty ounce malt liquor, a crack pipe and some Air Jordan's and he votes Democrat for a lifetime. | |||
|
| One of Us |
This has become a dern fine thead thread! Hasn't it?! D/R Hunter Correct bullet placement, combined with the required depth of bullet penetration, results in an anchored animal... | |||
|
| One of Us |
Yes, I think it has. Good information and knowledge are never lost or wasted on forums....someone will benefit from it. The major problem with the 'net is not knowing who you are talking to, not being able to look at the person...communication is not just talking or scattering words around, it's verbal and non-verbal communication, the visual aspect, body language, tonality of and intensity of the sounds, etc., that gets lost and the definitions/understandings of the words getting lost in translation...humans are visual 3 dimensional primates. Luck | |||
|
| one of us |
NONAGONAGIN, the above post is one we can agree on completely! It indicates the need for face to face. With a face to face your opinion that my post was in any way terse/testy would never have been formed I'm sure! My posts are often taken as confrontational, when they were not meant to be. I tend to try to correct information that I find erroneous, in a direct way, with the opposite information with no flowers or honey. That is often taken as arrogance, or pontification. What I was trying to get across is, I and most who work with double rifles, work on the range/targets to work up a regulating load. The targets on the way to regulation are discarded, till a regulating load is found. Once that load is found, that is the load used, with no reason the experiment further. In my case when I get a new, or new to me, double rifle, I buy 100 rounds of new brass. I use twenty of them for finding a regulating load. Once found, I load the whole 100 rounds with that load and powder lot# and use the twenty used for finding the regulating 75% load to practice, hunt hogs and deer. The rest of the ammo is stored for serious hunting. So there is no need for experimenting further! The above is not the usual way most load experimenters do thing with single barreled rifles. They tend to be constantly trying new bullets, or powder or both. I know this because with single barreled rifle I do exactly the same. With double rifles once the load is found for hunting, and a 75% rule load for practice is found those two loads is all that is ever loaded for that rifle. I find that people who are experimenters and have no back ground with double rifles tend to suffer from the paralysis, of analysis that is not needed with a double rifle once the load is found. simply load a supply and go hunting! I hope this will clarify my position in this thread! If not then I don't know what to tell you! In any case I'm out of this! ........................................................................................ ....Mac >>>===(x)===> MacD37, ...and DUGABOY1 DRSS Charter member "If I die today, I've had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"~ME 1982 Hands of Old Elmer Keith | |||
|
| One of Us |
I understand, we are both "irreverent" in some eyes...speaking directly is always full of "bones of contention". I give my opinion and how it is accepted is on no consequence to me, a lot of people on this forum seem to like to stir the pot and think it's hilarious, but I'm not one of them...anything I submit is in the light of additional, possibly useful information and most likely something I have already tried. I'm an "experimenter", but I have quite a few rifles I built/had built back from the early 60's to the present day, in cals from 17 to 50, that have one load or two at the most...once loads were developed they're the only ones used, but get tested when one of the components change or something new pops up. On the other hand I have experimented with almost ALL the parameters governing accurate loads or questions that come up online and in popular gun magazines. I've shot BR, steel, PPC, etc., so looking for that winning load is a constant quest. EVERY aspect of this sport has its specialties, and I want the "best" I can get whether it is a fine double or a cheapazz NEF. New components are coming out every day...just look at the CNC brass bullets now available for the large bore crowd, and the new temp "resistant" powders. Having one load that you've been using for years and know intimately is excellent, but maybe checking out some of the newer pieces and parts would add to your stable.   If you read Shooting Times I had/was testing questions that Layne Simpson published in his excellent articles, many years before his articles came out. I submitted some of my findings, but all were rejected...timing is always important. All that testing/experimenting/futzing around has given me a deeper insight and knowledge than the average hunter, which, unfortunately, does cause me to ask "those" questions that stir up the more "traditional" shooters or go over the heads of those that only want a once a year load for whatever they hunt....again, not to show up or show off, I just want "data"...EVERYONE has something to give, and I LIKE to shoot. It also has gotten me into hot water with the double crowd on this and other double rifle forums due to my apparent upstart/know nothing/"smartazz"/irreverent questions. It doesn't help that I view the double as just two individual barrels stuck together in a particular configuration and each barrel having the same inherent problems as any other barrel. BOTH will shoot a particular load slightly differently because a round is a one use item, there is no way to test each barrel with the same round and compare the results. This is NOT comparing the artistic beauty of a double with a single barrel, the mechanical aspects, inherent difficulty in building one VS the other or the proclivity that one is better than the other...BOTH were built for different jobs and in that milieu I will pick the one designed to do the best job, hence my wanting to acquire a double before I phart and phall. I will never hunt Africa for a number of reasons...I would like to go there but only in terms of the "old Safaris" scenario and mostly just to see the animals before we destroy them. I have no need or desire to prang an elephant, lion or other big cat...buff/plains game are a different story, those have a much higher population, in Africa and OZ, so having at them would be OK. Thanks again. | |||
|
| one of us |
NONAGONAGIN, 10-4 on last transmission! ....Mac >>>===(x)===> MacD37, ...and DUGABOY1 DRSS Charter member "If I die today, I've had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"~ME 1982 Hands of Old Elmer Keith | |||
|
| Powered by Social Strata |
 | Please Wait. Your request is being processed... |
|
The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Double Rifles Brass Length & Deep Seating Bullets
Visit our on-line store for AR Memorabilia