I have a Beretta 9.3X74 O/U that needs to have the barrels regulated. The rifle groups(patterns) of about 10" at 100 yds using a scope off a bench rest. Doesn't justify a scope at all. The comb of the stock is so high the iron sights are of no use. I tried contacting Beretta and after several months and sending them a picture of the rifle, all they could suggest was "you can send it out of the country".
I need to know the name of a gunsmith that can regulate the barrels and possibly bend the stock so the iron sights can be used, or replace it. I have seen some names mentioned on the forums, but could not tell if the individuals were relaying first hand information or not. Any help getting this double in shape would be appreciated.

First off, where are you? If you live in OZ, there are a few I could recommend for this type of work.

Cheers, Dave.

Is this a new rifle? If so, what weight bullet was it regulated for? Is the scope original to the rifle, or was it added later? What kind of scope and mounts? What kind of ammunition are you shooting in it? How are you resting the rifle? Sounds like something pretty basic is wrong for accuracy to be that poor.

J. J. Perodeau in Enid, Oklahoma, is superb for double rifle re-regulation (he did one for me) and is very good with stock bending as well.
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"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."

I have a Browning Continental .30-06 O/U which after having claw mounts and a scope installed would no longer shoot the original 150 grain factory loads. After much talking and trial and error I found that it actually will shoot 200 grain bullets in two different loadings better! I assume that the rifle forms two distinct groups when you shoot it now???

Thanks for the quick response everybody.
I am in South East Georgia.
The rifle was made in the early 1990's. It was purchased, used, from a Beretta dealer. It's a boxlock and looks almost new. I get about 2" groups with each barrel about 7 to 10 inches appart at 100 yds. I shoot from a hunting type of rest, using my hand to support the forend and not resting the barrels or forend on anything directly. Another double I have the chance to shoot occasionally will put 4 348Win bullets under 2" at 100 yds using this method of rest. The scope (4x Schmidt & Bender in claw mts)is original to the rifle according to the dealer and the stock configuration would back this up. I have only shot factory loads in both bullet weights and get about the same results. While I reload, I would rather have this rifle regulated for a factory load than have to reload for it. I usually shoot the lower barrel first and have sighted in with that barrel. The upper barrel shoots it's group at about the 4 o'clock position in relation to the first group.
Thanks for the information on J. J. Perodeau. His is a name I have heard associated with quality work on Double rifles.

JJ/Champlin's did work on a high end Grulla shotgun for me, and I was very happy with their work.

before you get to excited about it try some different loads. i have one like it and had to try several different loads before one regulated. Factory loads did nothing, and things worked just opposite of what they should have. Finally settled on 65 gr of old H4831 and a 300 gr swift Aframe. That load goes into about 2-2 1/2" at 100. Several others reacted similar to what you are experiencing.

forgot - 1 other thing - make sure you take your time with it, if you shoot to much and get the barrels hot they won't regulate for sour beans

I agree with Butchloc. There are a lot of things to try before sending it off for an expensive re-regulation job. Try a different scope, check mount screws, clean barrel with a good copper solvent, try with the iron sights with scope off (may have not been regulated with the scope on), try some hand loads after checking with Baretta to determine exactly what load was used to regulate it at the factory. Consider having the stock reshaped and then refinished, IMO that is a better solution then stock bending. If worse comes to worse have JJ at Champlins do the regulation but be prepared to spend around $1,000.

465H&H

I guess I will give the reloads a try next. The stock is going to have to be fixed or replaced and if I have to have the rifle regulated, I can get both done at the same time.
Each barrel shoots fine, so I don't think that the scope is a problem. I can't check to see if the rifle is regulated with the iron sights because there is so little drop in the stock you can't line them up. I already replaced the originals with the tallest irons I could find and it still isn't high enough. The bores are clean.
I went through two sessions with Baretta Customer Service that lasted several months. I can't picture myself asking them what load they used to regulate a rifle they don't even know they built. I understand they make pistols. Nuff said about Beretta.
Not having reloaded for an O/U double before, is it common to affect horizontal displacement of the groups by changing the loads. I would have thought that you would affect the verticle displacement more.
Thanks for the Help. With a little luck and probably a lot more cash, I'll get this sucker ready to hunt one way or the other.

Mathsr,

A few months ago I had a couple of shotgun lessons at www.woodcockhill.com THOMAS BLAND.

This is an old english firm that's been bought by a retired american cop in north east Pa. and is operated there.

Anyway, I am tall and basically lanky and always had a hard time shooting, as I had no consistancy in my gun mount etc.

One very important point that was stressed to me in these lessons was about how to hold my right arm when the gun is mounted, (I'm a RH shooter).

Because of my longish neck I always felt I wanted ALOT of drop in the stock.

Instead of having SEVERE drop, the instructor had me raise my right elbow higher than horizantal/parallel to the ground.

I had been pointing it kind of downward a bit.

By raising my elbow up, the severe drop that I thought that I needed to stop doing the "Turkey Neck" was NO LONGER NEEDED!

My point is, maybe if you are holding your right, (or left, if you shoot lefty) elbow low, you can raise that elbow and get those sights in line with your eye.

I no longer contort my head/neck while shooting.

You can do a self examination by shouldering the rifle while looking straight at a mirror.

My shooting is so much improved.

I hope this is at least a little helpful.

Yes, changes in the load will usually move the groups both ways. Just because the individual barrel groups are good with the scope doesn't mean the scope isn't the problem. If the scope is added or changed after regulation, the weight of it can change the regulation. Scoping a double is a very different matter from scoping a bolt rifle. You need to try different loads and bullet weights and, sometimes, a different scope.
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"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."

quote:

Originally posted by 400 Nitro Express:
Yes, changes in the load will usually move the groups both ways. Just because the individual barrel groups are good with the scope doesn't mean the scope isn't the problem. If the scope is added or changed after regulation, the weight of it can change the regulation. Scoping a double is a very different matter from scoping a bolt rifle. You need to try different loads and bullet weights and, sometimes, a different scope.
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"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."

Basic logic here by 400! Many doubles seem to have the scopes added and then are expected to still regulate which they will not.
Yours is obviously not regulating - handloads may fix the problem. if it is 10" apart at 100YDs there is only a small fix needed.
A slightly hotter load should bring them together. The previous mention of a rifle needing individual loads for each barrel to bring them together is fine for range work only!
Imagine remembering to load the correct load in each barrel in the field!
All the Beretta doubles I have seen had the same stock you are experiencing. Although there were iron sights one could not cheek them low enough to use them! They must have had some left over trap stocks they whacked on these doubles. Unfortunate because they appear well made and quite a utility field peice otherwise.
APB

The stock was definately designed for scope use only. I would love the see the guy that could sholder the rifle and use the iron sights that came with it. He would be one wierd looking individual. There is no way that it was regulated with the iron sights that came with it, and I don't really think that Beretta worried much about regulating the thing at all.
Well I guess it's time to order the reloading dies and a bunch of bullets. It's going to be noisy around here for a while. My brother has a Franz Sodia double in 348 Winchester that shoots like a bolt action. He's been giving me a hard time about this 9.3x74. He use to be a gunsmith with Pachmayr in the 70's and says he could make a really nice single shot out of it. This Beretta is going to kick a Franz Sodia's butt before I quit.
Thanks for all the suggestions. Time to see what works.

Mathsr, If possible for you I would research the thread I started about 2 years ago when I had issues with my Browning. The most helpful members of this forum steered me in the correct directions with knowledge and experience. I was able to get my Browning to shoot as well as you are looking to get your Beretta to shoot.
1. Always fire the lower barrel first.
2. If possible shoot the 2nd barrel within ten seconds of the 1st.
3. Time in the barrel has everything to do with regulation.
4. Weight of powder charge and bullet affect regulation. (Try relatively fast and slow powders.)
5. Browning's were regulated with 150 grain .30-06 factory loads. My rifle after having claw mounts added would not shoot together, It now is regulated with 200 grain bullets. I won on that exchange.
6. I was told by an AR member to try the rifle with iron sights vs scope. Remarkedly, it shot better with iron sights! 4 rounds in 3/4" at 50 yards. Hi and low, left and right little square. This is because of the weight of the rifle and recoil momentum. I suspect a recoil pad would further distribute the shots in my case.
7. Try different bullet weights and save your targets as they will steer you in the right direction.
8. Good Luck and good shoting.

Mathsr, I can tell you for a fact that Beretta regulate there U/O doubles in 9.3 x 74R with Sako ammunition 286gn bullets (thats with todays new rifles, i can't confirm this with a rifle built 15 years ago). They also regulate them with open sights (fibre optic front sight). i think your rifle may have been tampered with somewhere along the way, either the open sights or the stock. try and get hold of some Sako ammo and see how you go, Good luck!

I think that it is all pretty much original. Every thing looks correct on the rifle, meaning there is no new looking or refinished looking wood or metal. It shows even wear from end to end and the claw mounts appear to have been installed at the time of manufacture. The stock is just designed to utilize a high mount scope which is what is on it. Beretta said that the rifles were a custom order item and could be had just about any way the customer wanted.
I think my best bet would be to work up a load that shoots good, with components that are easy to find and just stick with it. After working up some loads for a 416 Taylor a year or so ago, I just wasn't looking forward to spending time at a shooting bench with this 9.3X74. Recoil used to be fun, not so much anymore. I will get the stock modified or changed so that both iron sights as well as the scope can be used. Where I hunt with irons the regulation won't make that much difference. If I need the second shot with the iron sights, whatever I shot is going to be close and likely getting closer.
I haven't ever seen any Sako ammunition but I will check with my dealer. I would imagine that Beretta started using Sako ammo when they purchased the company, which was a good while after my rifle was made. Who knows, it might work. Nothing else has.
Thanks again for the suggestions.