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I just looked around CEB's website for the first time and here's dumb question #1 Under the Safari Solid for nitro express rifles they list a 480 grain .457. Is there a specific reason it's 457 and not 458? Dumb question #2 My 450 3 1/4 Army Navy shoots the 480 grain .458 Woodleigh RN solids very nicely. Has anyone else had a double that shot those well and if so have you had any luck with the CEB's also shooting well? Did you need to re work the load to get it to regulate? ______________________ DRSS ______________________ Hunt Reports 2015 His & Her Leopards with Derek Littleton of Luwire Safaris - http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/2971090112 2015 Trophy Bull Elephant with CMS http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/1651069012 DIY Brooks Range Sheep Hunt 2013 - http://forums.accuratereloadin...901038191#9901038191 Zambia June/July 2012 with Andrew Baldry - Royal Kafue http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/7971064771 Zambia Sept 2010- Muchinga Safaris http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/4211096141 Namibia Sept 2010 - ARUB Safaris http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/6781076141 | ||
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Frostbit..... Not a dumb ?? at all.... In the very early stages of development of the #13 Solids, Sam and I were working in several directions. Nose profile and Meplat size was already established. Bands were pretty much established as well, 3 top, 1 bottom. The 480 #13 was one of the first in line to be tested, and this was before Sam and I had done barrel strain tests, in .458 caliber. One of the guys with a 450 NE suggested that we drop a .001 just to be on the safe side, and we did, making the 480 at .457 instead of .458. After Sam and I did extensive work with the barrel strains in .458 caliber, then it was determined that like the North Forks, the #13s could remain full caliber. The Reduced bearing surface with the 4 bands kept barrel strains way down on its own, without having to resort to reduced diameters. From that point on, all the rest of the bullets remained full caliber. We tested for barrel strains at .458, .457, even having the 4 bands different diameters, for instance the top two at .457-.456 and the bottom two .458, and nothing made enough difference to be of any note at all. We even tried 2-3 bands, and there was little to make note of. In the end, the 480 was just left at .457, as .001 under made no real difference, not even in the bolt guns. All others went straight to .458. As I recall, and we would have to check with Sam on this. Sam has a buddy that has a Army/Navy, and he shoots the 480 and used it on elephant as I recall with excellent results, but to be sure, have to check with Sam on this as I get confused with all the different models of this and that..... Michael http://www.b-mriflesandcartridges.com/default.html The New Word is "Non-Conventional", add "Conventional" to the Endangered Species List! Live Outside The Box of "Conventional Wisdom" I do Not Own Any Part of Any Bullet Company, I am not in the Employ Of Any Bullet Company. I do not represent, own stock, nor do I receive any proceeds, or monies from ANY BULLET COMPANY. I am not in the bullet business, and have no Bullets to sell to you, nor anyone else. | |||
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Frosbit: My VC shoots the Woodleigh softs and solids very well as well as the Safari Raptor (450gr) extremely well. The solids however while good enough for hunting, I was never able to get to shoot as well. I had great luck with the North Fork solids though. If you do a search here, you can see lmy targets and load data. jorge USN (ret) DRSS Verney-Carron 450NE Cogswell & Harrison 375 Fl NE Sabatti Big Five 375 FL Magnum NE DSC Life Member NRA Life Member | |||
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Frostbit, As Michael said early on in the developement of the BBW#13 there were many different designs and proto types. The first 450s were made for a 450 nitro gun that had .457 groove diameter and we knew there were a lot of old 450s out there with all kinds of groove diameters. This is why the 480 grain is .457 diameter. Most doubles will regulate with the BBW#13s very easily with a load that works with conventional cup and core bullets. Because of the low bearing surface of the BBW#13s you may need to add more powder to fine tune your loads. The reason is your pressures will be lower and velocities might also be lower with the #13. Another advantage of the #13 design is that the Non Cons or now called Raptors being of a lower weight but the same bullet as the solid they tend to shoot into the same place as solids. Also we have found that because the CEB #13s all have 4 bands of the same width for each caliber that you can shoot much lighter bullets than standard and still get really good regulation in most doubles. I now rarely shoot original weight bullets in my doubles. I have found that a lighter bullet going faster is more effective on game. Now I'm talking only about CEB Safari Solids and Safari Raptors here. Sam | |||
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Talked to the CEB guys today and they are sending me loading info for the 280gr solids and Safari Raptors in .366 I bought at DSC. Customer service and willingness to help are top notch for this group. I am convinced I can make these work in my double and R8 and if the case will go to Mozambique later this year. Larry Sellers SCI(International)Life Member Sabatti "trash" Shooter New R8 Blaser owner | |||
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Frosty, I have a couple of b0xes of the non-con's and solids here if you wan to try them. Just replace them later on. NRA Life ASSRA Life DRSS Today's Quote: Give a man a fish and he eats for a day. Give a man a welfare check, a free cell phone with free monthly minutes, food stamps, section 8 housing, a forty ounce malt liquor, a crack pipe and some Air Jordan's and he votes Democrat for a lifetime. | |||
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I shoot CEB's 480s and 450s out of my 1905 Gibbs 450 3 1/4. 100grs of H4831sc for both puts everything in a nice group. Shot my Tuskless with the 480 CEB solid. | |||
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The wheel can only be reinvented a limited number of times. Next year something will come along touted to be even better. Old bullets, old rifles, old cars, old watches, old furniture, old women---are fine with me. Cal _______________________________ Cal Pappas, Willow, Alaska www.CalPappas.com www.CalPappas.blogspot.com 1994 Zimbabwe 1997 Zimbabwe 1998 Zimbabwe 1999 Zimbabwe 1999 Namibia, Botswana, Zambia--vacation 2000 Australia 2002 South Africa 2003 South Africa 2003 Zimbabwe 2005 South Africa 2005 Zimbabwe 2006 Tanzania 2006 Zimbabwe--vacation 2007 Zimbabwe--vacation 2008 Zimbabwe 2012 Australia 2013 South Africa 2013 Zimbabwe 2013 Australia 2016 Zimbabwe 2017 Zimbabwe 2018 South Africa 2018 Zimbabwe--vacation 2019 South Africa 2019 Botswana 2019 Zimbabwe vacation 2021 South Africa 2021 South Africa (2nd hunt a month later) ______________________________ | |||
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Cal, when you travel to Africa on safari, do you go by slow boat, or by jet? Sometimes, new and improved really is better! I'd say bullets fit that description, especially the CEBs, but maybe not rifles!  By the way, those Woodleighs only "look" like the old Kynochs, but they aren't "built" like the old bullets! So they really are "new" bullets that just "look" old! Kind of like taking a new WR double rifle and handling it excessively, putting a few "character" marks on it including maybe a compression ding or two, letting the bluing wear a bit from sweat especially around the muzzles, etc. IE, looks "old" but really isn't! No amount of "looks" will make a 2013 model WR a "vintage" rifle! For that, it'll need a hundred years or so; and who knows what WR will be building then, if anything. Phasers and Plasma Rays perhaps! Sorry pardner, couldn't resist on this one!  | |||
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No worries, Todd. It's all opinion. We agree on Blaser and Shootaway. That's all that matters! cal _______________________________ Cal Pappas, Willow, Alaska www.CalPappas.com www.CalPappas.blogspot.com 1994 Zimbabwe 1997 Zimbabwe 1998 Zimbabwe 1999 Zimbabwe 1999 Namibia, Botswana, Zambia--vacation 2000 Australia 2002 South Africa 2003 South Africa 2003 Zimbabwe 2005 South Africa 2005 Zimbabwe 2006 Tanzania 2006 Zimbabwe--vacation 2007 Zimbabwe--vacation 2008 Zimbabwe 2012 Australia 2013 South Africa 2013 Zimbabwe 2013 Australia 2016 Zimbabwe 2017 Zimbabwe 2018 South Africa 2018 Zimbabwe--vacation 2019 South Africa 2019 Botswana 2019 Zimbabwe vacation 2021 South Africa 2021 South Africa (2nd hunt a month later) ______________________________ | |||
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Ain't that the truth!  | |||
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With my "trash" Sabatti and an R8 due any day now, does this mean you guys don't like me anymore?  Larry Sellers SCI(International)Life Member Sabatti "trash" Shooter R8 Blaser DRSS
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Larry, You are teetering on the edge of acceptability!  465H&H | |||
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465 - You are probably right!! Guess I'll have to buy Todd and Cal a drink at DSC next year to kinda get back in the fold, huh?  Larry Sellers SCI(international) Life Member Sabatti 'trash' Shooter R8 Blaser DRSS | |||
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While your there, tip one or two for me! 465H&H | |||
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