While each of us has a different recoil tolerance level, each of us also has a limit. I own several doubles and have another on the way and have fired a bunch of different doubles over the years. I have found that when it comes to doubles, the 470 NE is at the top level of my recoil tolerance. I can easily and comfortably shoot my 470 from sticks without much problem. However, I have had the opportunity to shoot a number of different doubles chambered in 500 NE and each time I found the recoil to be very punishing. While the 500 NE is very cool, I never had the desire to step up to one and I have not had any experience with a 577 or a 600.

How about you? What's your limit?

Personally, I haven't tried anything bigger than the .470 Nitro and I think the .458 Lott kicks worse than the .470. Offhand or of the sticks, neither of them are very punishing but off the bench, that is a different story. Load development is slow cause I can only shoot about 40 rounds at a time off the bench.

I don't think you can consider caliber alone. A lot of other things come into play including weight of the gun, stock drop and fit of the gun.

I had a 500 that was too much for me. I had a 470 that when doubled was less than the 500.

The worst I have ever been hurt was with a 12 GA with slugs. It was a pump gun that was super light.

Pago, 40 rounds off a bench at a time....you are a hero, recoil tolerance is relative, I can fire a .375 for about 35 rounds before getting sore, a .500 I can only do about 6-8 rounds before my head starts to ache but my .500 seems to kick less than my old .470 ?? stock fit ?

quote:

Originally posted by Dave Bush:
While each of us has a different recoil tolerance level, each of us also has a limit. I own several doubles and have another on the way and have fired a bunch of different doubles over the years. I have found that when it comes to doubles, the 470 NE is at the top level of my recoil tolerance. I can easily and comfortably shoot my 470 from sticks without much problem. However, I have had the opportunity to shoot a number of different doubles chambered in 500 NE and each time I found the recoil to be very punishing. While the 500 NE is very cool, I never had the desire to step up to one and I have not had any experience with a 577 or a 600.

How about you? What's your limit?

Dave I have owned two 577NE doubles and I find the 470NE in some rifles to be more punishing. Of course the way the rifle is balanced, and fits its owner makes all the difference in felt recoil. I shoot a 470NE quite a lot and I don’t think it is that bad from hunting positions. My 470NE is an older shoe-lump 140-2 Safari that weighs in at around 11,5 pounds and fits me pretty well, and the 500NE Merkel made on the same action, and barrel diameter actually weighs ½ pound less than the 470NE Merkel. The recoil is noticeable between the two rifles but I don’t find the 500NE uncontrollable, and in fact would rather have the 500NE merkel.

My main objection to the 577NE rifles I owned was not the recoil but the weight to carry all day long. So to answer your question I think my limit for all reasons is the 500NE double!
..................................................................................................................

Dave,

I'm with Larry on this. I had a 450NE that was punishing and a 500NE that was nearly as bad. 10 rounds of either and is had enough. I won't mention the makes but they are both of reputable, sound and respected manufacture.

On the other hand I have had two 600NE, a 577NE, a 500NE, a 470NE, a 450/400 and a 375FL from two other respected, sound, reputable manufacturers and can put dozens of rounds through them, even the 600s, without any problem whatsoever.

And my 12 pound AHR 600 Overkill was just as comfortable.

I think it simply comes down to stock design and fit rather than any particular recoil level.

Just my perspective.

I think the comments about gun make/build etc, have gotta be pretty accurate. I've certainly shot some that are worse than others.

I've got a plain/Jane, off the shelf .375 RUM, and it definitely kicks worse than the .577NE I just had. Not sure about the new .600NE, haven't shot it yet?

I wonder if maybe the excessive use of muzzle-brakes over the past 15-20 yrs, has made many guys more recoil sensitive? I'll take all the punishment the gun can give, just PLEASE don't give me one with a brake!

Haven't shot a 577 or 600 yet. My 500NE Merkel is stiff but very manageable. I have no problem shooting the 500NE but I think I would agree with Mac about the larger rifles. The 500 is more my limit concerning what I'm willing to carry than from recoil.

I don't find the 375 or 416 to be an issue at all. But I practice quite a bit with the big bores. I think recoil tolerance is largely affected by the amount of recent practice a person has under his belt.

Well I've shot them all I think and the worst was a 450 Dakota. That one had me seeing stars and my neck felt like I had whiplash. 375 Rum is bad too as Aaron says it is worse than the 577. My 470 hurts worse than my 577 and the 500 is about the same. That light weight Sabatti 500 gives you quite a jolt but I'd still rather shoot it than a 450 Dakota. Just got done shooting 20 rounds of 500 each day for three days and I'm not punch drunk. Oh my 50 B&M long kicks worse than the 577 but it is half the weight.

My Merkel 470 and CZ 375 are both quite comfortable to shoot. However, my CZ 458 Lott and Weatherby Vanguard 300 win mag are just shy of punishment to shoot more than 5 or so rounds out of. A PAST magnum pad on my shoulder makes life much more tolerable for bench sessions with any of my stiffer kickers.

I find the 450/400's more comfortable to shoot than most bolt action 375 H&H's.

My 450 No2 is very comfortable to shoot. It has 28" barrels, and is fairly heavy.

I find the 450 doubles kick less then 470's.

I find 500's to have high speed back thrust, and a lot of upchuck.
Most new made 500's are too light for calibre, IMHO.

Strangly I find the 577 more comfortable to shoot than most of the 500's I have shot.
It does have more back and up thrust, but it is not painful.

The onlky 600 Nitro I have shot is Ivan Carters Heym 600.
It has a LOT of back thrust and a LOT of upchuck.
But it is not painful to shoot. It did not bang my second finger [I have never shot a double that did], it did not bang my face [my 9,3 Chapuis when shooting iron sights bangs my face more].

You need to be "ready" when shooting a 500 and up. These bit guns have a little more recovery time.

But even when shooting a 450/400 or my 450 No2 at the range, and not on game, recovery time is longer. When shooting game I do not notice the recoil, and recovery time is a lot shorter.
Most of my shots in Africa have been videoed and the recovery time is quite short.

I am sure if I practiced and shot a 577 or a 600 on game the results would be similar.

However IF you develop a flinch durring practice it can and will become present when shooting game.

IMHO it takes a lot of serious practice and dedication to effectively use a 500 and up double.

Basically, IF, you cannot shoot your big bore double, or Bolt Rifle like a 22 LR, you have too much gun, again IMHO.

Much better to hunt with a 450/400 [or a 9,3x74R double for that matter] you can shoot like a 22LR than a 600 you could not commit suicide in a phone booth with.

Mike,
I'm definitely no hero I just have worked my way up to the bigger calibers. My first big bore was a Winchester M70 in 416 and it didn't fit me at all and it beat me up. Since then, I went to the .375 H & H and it is now one of my favorite calibers. Then got rid of the Winchester and have 2 Remington custom shop models with the 24" heavy barrels in .416 Rem. From there, I bought a .458 win mag, then the .470 and then the .458 Lott. Can usually take 150-200 rounds off the bench with the .375 and then play with the .416 Rem for up to 100 rounds before I start to tire. But the .470 and the .458 Lott tend to kick my butt. But I probably shoot between 20,000 and 25,000 rounds per year. It might also help that I am not a small person. 6'3 and 240 pounds.

All very interesting comments. Recoil is often the excuse for using a .375 rather than a .416, which I believe is a much better choice.

The fact is that "felt" recoil may not correlate with actual recoil foot pounds and can be attributed to many different things. I have shot (extensively) quite a few large bore DG rifles in a variety of calibers. Here are some of my experiences with DG rifles I actually owned.

.375H&H Browning. No issues. My first "african" rifle. Soon found to be less than enough gun for DG, IMO, and relegated to the gun safe.

.375RUM Remington 700. One of the early rifles with a skinny, light bbl. Always felt the recoil with this rifle. Spent a lot of time and money trying to get it to shoot the third round into the same POI as the first two. Sent back to Remington numerous times because of this issue (and others). Never could get it to do it. I always believed the bbl was too light for the caliber. The .375RUM generates a lot of heat and I feel the bbl harmonics changed following the first two quick shots (hot bbl.), thereby causing the third round in quick succession to throw off by a couple inches, every time. I loved the concept of this caliber and really wanted it to work, but it never met my standards.

.416Rem from the Remington Custom Shop. Beautiful rifle in a wood stock that hurt my cheek every time I fired it. Had Remington replace the wood stock with a synthetic (McMillan I believe) stock and the problem disappeared completely. One of the most accurate DG rifles I ever owned.

.416Rem Special Build by the Winchester Custom Shop purchased with a synthetic (McMillan again) stock rather than the OEM walnut and a bbl. band swivel.

.458Lott RSM. POS skinny, hard Ruger OEM recoil pad. Replaced with a 1" LimbSaver which also extended the LOP to approximately 14.25", which fits me much better and shoots sans any problems.

500NE Sabatti DR. Again, a POS recoil pad and a too light for caliber (9.5#) rifle that gave me a headache after only 3 rounds; replicated with same headache. Sent to "the man" and had 2 mercury recoil adapters installed to increase weight and dampen recoil, along with a 1" Pachmayer pad. No more headaches and a pleasure to shoot. 20 rounds per session without problems.

I recently had SSK build a .458B&M on a Winchester wsm action and specified that both a OEM walnut and a OEM laminate be extended to 14.5" LOP over a 1" LimbSaver pad. No problems.

I have concluded that almost any large bore rifle will need work to reduce "felt" recoil and improve accuracy. LOP may be the most neglected issue in this regard, followed closely by the use of POS OEM recoil pads. The off the shelf rifle is built for the AVERAGE person. The fact is that most of us are NOT average.

Another issue is that when shooting a large bore from the bench a PAST recoil pad should always be worn by the shooter. They are now available in three sizes and they will allow you to shoot more rounds without discomfort from the bench for sight in, function check and practice.

BTW, most of these rifles also needed after market work to function correctly. Any DG rifle must be 100% reliable, and most are not, as purchased, even the Custom Shop guns or custom builds.

550 magnum or 585 nyati IN A BOLT GUN

guns with alot of drop kick more.

in a double, the 577 NE is about as far as I can go, and I can't shoot but 6-8 rounds

I can shoot 30-40 rounds of 550 express, in a FOUR POUND lighter gun, with the same ME and higher MV.

the 550 magnum -- 4-5 rounds and I am done

the other 30 lbs of recoil goes over the top for me

My recoil limit is an 11 pound W.J. Jeffery in 475#2 Jeffery. My 10.5 pound 404 Jeffery bolt rifle.

I have a great intolerance for 500 NE double rifles. Especially when owned and loaded by Mike Jines!

My recoil limit is different depending whether I am shooting from the bench, standing at a target or at dangerous game. Standing at a target the 458 Lott with 550 grain bullets at 2,150 fps out of a 10 1/2lb rifle is it. At DG, I don't know as I have never felt any of them kick me.

465H&H

New to DR but have fired my K-470 and like it better than my Winchester M70 on 458 Lott. Of course I don't have the scope to worry with.

I am scared of my Savage 300WM and my custom 458 LOTT hurts a lott but find 10 rounds from my Searcy 577 managable every day and 20+ is no problem as long as I dont shoot anything big the next day. I love my 600 OK but as an 11lb gun with no brake I am only shooting it 6-10 shots a session with 2050fps ammo. With 1800fps or 750gr bullets 20+ is no problem.

Matthew

Dave,
PM sent.

For Me, recoil velocity is worse than the force.
The most I've ever been hurt was with a short stocked (for me) 378 Wetherby. Bruise didn't go away for weeks, shoulder or cheek.

Cheers, John

I hate the fast light ultra-mags. Don't mind my 577 nitro one bit though.

quote:

For Me, recoil velocity is worse than the force.

+ 1.

This statement is right on the mark.
Straight-walled, slightly bottle-necked cases are usually more user freindly than sharp shouldered cases.

I am a small framed guy, 5' 8" about 170lbs.
Just had two new rifles delivered, one in 458 Lott the other in .500 M.D.M Ultra mag.
Neither of the two rifles weigh more than 8 & 3/4lbs.
I'm currently having a lot of fun testing loads, sighting etc for this coming hunting season with little to no ill effects after sessions involving 60 - 80 rounds in a couple of hours.
Far more than i'm ever likely to fire in any one day in the feild.

Sure, there's recoil, Newtons Law makes sure of that, but they are mangable and controllable.

Both rifles were stocked specifically by Accurate Innovations in a style that goes a LONG way to mitigating felt recoil, and it works (highly reccomend it to anyone).

Familiarity and practice will take care of the rest.

My limit is determined not by what I can endure but by what I enjoy. If it isn't fun anymore than why bother?

I enjoy shooting 450NE and below. This does not include the big Weatherby cartridges and other powder hungry big bore magnums. I do not enjoy shooting 470NE and therefore have not attempted to shoot anything larger.

Agree with post by 465H&H, “My recoil limit is different depending whether I am shooting from the bench, standing at a target or at dangerous game.” From a DG standpoint recoil has never been an issue. However, when shooting paper from any position it seems like my .470 DR is about as much as I enjoy and shoot well. I definitely agree with the comments on stock fit. I had a Tika in 300WSM roughly five years ago that I simply hated. That bad boy kicked me like a bad habit every shot.

I am still shooting my 11 lb 550 Gibbs about 8-10 rounds every couple weeks. The Boise indoor range banned me about six weeks ago. The 615gr MACIFEJ solids put holes in the 3/4 plate on the rifle side (again). I have lowered the MV to 2350; I think at 62 I am getting old...

Can't really say ... the largest caliber bolt rifle I own is a 22" .458 AccRel and it's pretty interesting with hot 500s. Is probably because it weighs less than 10 pounds.

The largest DR I own is an old field grade .470 NE. It is not a light weight and is pretty comfortable to shoot.

Honestly never developed interest in rifles of larger caliber as I really don't expect to be able to hunt dangerous game again.

quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:
I am still shooting my 11 lb 550 Gibbs about 8-10 rounds every couple weeks. The Boise indoor range banned me about six weeks ago. The 615gr MACIFEJ solids put holes in the 3/4 plate on the rifle side (again). I have lowered the MV to 2350; I think at 62 I am getting old...

Rich I think the muzzle flash would be a fire hazard at an indoor range!

quote:

Originally posted by Rusty:

quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:
I am still shooting my 11 lb 550 Gibbs about 8-10 rounds every couple weeks. The Boise indoor range banned me about six weeks ago. The 615gr MACIFEJ solids put holes in the 3/4 plate on the rifle side (again). I have lowered the MV to 2350; I think at 62 I am getting old...

Rich I think the muzzle flash would be a fire hazard at an indoor range!

They probably objected to his "hands off" technique as demonstrated in pictures posted on AR in the not too distant past!

quote:

Originally posted by Todd Williams:

quote:

Originally posted by Rusty:

quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:
I am still shooting my 11 lb 550 Gibbs about 8-10 rounds every couple weeks. The Boise indoor range banned me about six weeks ago. The 615gr MACIFEJ solids put holes in the 3/4 plate on the rifle side (again). I have lowered the MV to 2350; I think at 62 I am getting old...

Rich I think the muzzle flash would be a fire hazard at an indoor range!

They probably objected to his "hands off" technique as demonstrated in pictures posted on AR in the not too distant past!

.............................................................................
Sorry ISS, just couldn't resist!

quote:

Originally posted by MacD37:

quote:

Originally posted by Todd Williams:

quote:

Originally posted by Rusty:

quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:
I am still shooting my 11 lb 550 Gibbs about 8-10 rounds every couple weeks. The Boise indoor range banned me about six weeks ago. The 615gr MACIFEJ solids put holes in the 3/4 plate on the rifle side (again). I have lowered the MV to 2350; I think at 62 I am getting old...

Rich I think the muzzle flash would be a fire hazard at an indoor range!

They probably objected to his "hands off" technique as demonstrated in pictures posted on AR in the not too distant past!

.............................................................................
Sorry ISS, just couldn't resist!

Me too Mac. As Larry the Cable Guy would say: "Lord I apologize and be with the starving pygmies down in New Guinea".

It was low hanging fruit and I had to have a bite!

9lb 500 jeffery....ohhhhh ouch!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ed, you used to wince when shooting your Red Rider! :-)

Honestly


Ill get ridacule here for this but my souped up .338 Winchester (model 77) is punishing and turned down my brothers .340 Weatherby as a gift
because I had alot of experiance with it in the past, Now our best Buddy has it

For the simple fact I dont enjoy recoil that much anymore....


Cal30

My experience of shooting 7 or 8 DRs in one day - I shot a Webley 450/400 and hit a clay tareget on the mound at 25 yards. The rifle fit me beautifully. Then I shot a Chapuis 470 that did not fit me & the 2 shots pounded my cheek & I was rubbing it for the next week.! I also shot a 500 NE & a 600NE but they were reasonable - a big push but no real pounding. I would be happy to use the 450/400 any time.

My precise answer to the precise question posed by Dave Bush is:

.375H&H, standard factory 300g loads, 10.5 lb. rifle loaded and w/scope. Well-fitted. Anything over that and I start to flinch.

505 Gibbs in a 9lb bolt gun left me with a tingle from shoulder to elbow, this is my limit.

For me, the worst ever was a 7mag Savage 110, would slap me silly, only gun I had a noticeable flinch on.

460 Weatherby with max handloads woke me up, but nothing that i couldnt handle. BUT...the same guys .340 Weatherby with a shorter LOP and somewhat dirrent style stock was an ass whippin i NEVER cared to experience again!

In my opionion:
The giggest recoil is in the brain.

Then you have an good, stance, body feeling and breathing-technique...., it is not a big thing.

I shoot 3 shoots of my .460 Weatherby, at an distance at 20 meters, under 10 seconds, in the target.

Found my comfort levels tested when I had a double discharge on a .470NE
Two 500gr Bullets going down the two barrels at the same time.
Bullets found their mark, but rattled me nontheless.

quote:

...the same guys .340 Weatherby with a shorter LOP and somewhat dirrent style stock was an ass whippin i NEVER cared to experience again!

Im glad its not just me.... But I kept going back for more


Cal30