I was loading some 470 NE with the 500 gr Woodleigh soft point, then loaded some Swift A Frames. The swift is a larger diameter, you can see the difference in the loaded round. I have a caliper, the Woodleigh is .474, the swift is .4755. IS this safe to shoot in my Merkel?
The load is 87 RX 15 with 5 gr of dacron for 2140 FPS over the chrono at 15'

I don't know if this will over pressure the gun? Don't know if I should throw them away or shoot them.

Anyone have any experience with this. I could really see the difference in the bell the Swift was making in loaded round.

I don't pretend to be an expert but IMHO a double rifle is a very expensive tool to risk damaging. I would be inclined to not shoot the swifts.

let's see.. not my rifle, but I shoot a 475 caliber... and YES, i would shoot them...

so, you probably should be aware, the GROOVE diameter of your rifle is .475, or so, but teh BORE is about .462 (more or less)... and is 80% of the surface area of your bore... you are squeezing those bullets down to that .462.. if you don't get this... try this... take a woodleigh bullet and try (LIGHTLY) pressing it into the muzzle end of the bore... now, spin that bullet to make it with the rifling.. and measure that

the woodleigh is UNDER sized for a.475 barrel, and .0005 larger than groove? Do you know how small .0005 is?

divide a sheet of paper SEVEN times...

jeffe

Have you slugged the bores? With doubles, new or old, always slug 'em. The correct answer is whatever groove diameter actually is.

The standard groove and bullet diameter for the .470 has always been .474", not .475", but there's often that much variance between guns. The Swift isn't really a .470 NE bullet to begin with, because it isn't the correct diameter. However, a bullet that is oversize by .0015" usually isn't going to be a problem even in a double, excepting particularly hard bullets. The shank of the Swift (not the nose) is much, much harder than the Woodleigh. I toyed with the Swift some years ago, and decided that they were hard enough that I wouldn't shoot them in my double rifles. It's a fine bullet, but is probably best left to the bolt rifles.
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"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."

quote:

Originally posted by 400 Nitro Express:
The shank of the Swift (not the nose) is much, much harder than the Woodleigh. I toyed with the Swift some years ago, and decided that they were hard enough that I wouldn't shoot them in my double rifles. It's a fine bullet, but is probably best left to the bolt rifles.

Mark,
aren't steel jackets rather harder than copper bullets?

quote:

Originally posted by gi:
I was loading some 470 NE with the 500 gr Woodleigh soft point, then loaded some Swift A Frames. The swift is a larger diameter, you can see the difference in the loaded round. I have a caliper, the Woodleigh is .474, the swift is .4755. IS this safe to shoot in my Merkel?
The load is 87 RX 15 with 5 gr of dacron for 2140 FPS over the chrono at 15'

I don't know if this will over pressure the gun? Don't know if I should throw them away or shoot them.

Anyone have any experience with this. I could really see the difference in the bell the Swift was making in loaded round.

I wouldn't throw them away, but I wouldn't shoot them in my .470 Wilkes. I would pull the pullts and then either throw the bullets away or give them to somebody with a bolt gun. That way I keep the rest of the components. Use a vise grip to pull the bullet if you don't have a puller with a .475 diameter collect.

Jeffe:

No, not at all. I was specifically referring to the Woodleigh soft, which has a copper jacket, not steel. The Woodleigh solid has a GM covered steel jacket, but, like the soft, has a lead core so is compressable, and that's the key.

Like I said, some years ago, I toyed with the Swift for one of my doubles. That particular rifle is .0035" tighter than standard in the groove, so I size down standard off the rack bullets in a Corbin reducing die. I've run a wide variety of jacketed bullets through the die over the years, including both RWS and Woodleigh steel jacketed solids. All go through it with just a tad more pressure on the handle than is required to FL resize a fired case. It's a snap, goes very fast, and is very low aggravation. When I gave up on the Swift, I had a four foot cheater on the press handle and the top of the loading bench was beginning to split under the load. Even with that much English on it, the Swift wouldn't enter the die, not even .001". I got the micrometer and checked 'em against the other makes, and diameter sure wasn't the issue. Not in my double rifle, Bubba, not ever.
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"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."

Fair enough.. and makes sense, especially with the days of the bores varying from rifle to rifle...

i would imagine in a merkel, searcy, heym, etc, with .475 grooves there would be another issue ...

WOW.. .0035 undersized bores? my goodness that must have been a "quick" to pressure gun
jeffe

i've been shooting them in my merkel for some time now with no problems

GI, The swifts will be just fine in your rifle. It's quite common that the swifts will produce a little more pressure, more because the bullet is a little harder bullet than the woodleigh. I find that most of the time the swifts and the woodlieghs will shoot about the same POI in the big bores. Let's reason together for a moment, the woodleigh solids are harder on your rifle bore than any Swift would be, and there is a high probability that the chamber pressures of the Woodleigh solid are higher than the Swift a-frame.

If the Swifts are a problem, then you can be sure the Woodleigh solids would be too.

Gi,Not sure about the Swift,but concerning the Barnes;I asked our friend in Oklahoma about their use.He said,"I have 2 things to say about that,Stay away from them + stay away from them.

I have fired the Woodleigh solids and they shoot to the same point of aim as the Woodleigh softs.

I think I will reduce the powder charge from 87 RX 15 to maybe 85 and shoot them over the chrono. and see how much velocity difference. I get 2140 sith 87 rx15, 5 gr. dacron fed 215m in rigby (bell ) cases

When loading for my Krieghoff 470 I use 88 gr. Rel 15 with 500 gr. Woodleigh Soft Points and 87 gr. Rel 15 with Woodleigh Solids to achieve same point of impact.

Dan, my experience with the Woodleigh solid and the Swift A Frame doesn't support your conclusion.
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"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."