Hello All,

I just acquired this Most Unusual Double Rifle at the Rock Island Auction. This is absolutely a strange bird. Miller and Val. Greiss is a well known German maker of some very fine and elaborate rifles and shotguns, but I've never before seen a "Martini Style" action with this type of external hammer, let-alone in a "double" Martini configuration with "double" hammers. Except, there was a similar rifle by the same maker, with the same provenance, and the same action, that appeared in Rock Island's Dec. 3, 2017 Auction. It sold for considerable more than this one, and I soon dropped out of the bidding on that one. However, I think that Sunday's blizzard really cut-down on the auction bidders, because I was successful getting this one for about "half" of the price that the one sold for last December.

Weight is 8-1/4 pounds with a LOP of 13-5/8". I'm guessing the short raised dovetail platform was for some type of scope mounting. I'll be looking for that.

There are no markings on the rifle except as described in the Auction description, and as I've shown below. Although the auction listed the caliber as 450 Short BPE, I could not find a cartridge with this name. However, a chamber cast matches "exactly" a cartridge called the "45 New South Wales." (dies from C-4 are on the way) The chamber cast also showed 4-groove Henry Henry Rifling. In addition, the bores are absolutely MINT and Mirror bright. The 450 Short BPE cases are easily formed from 450-400 shortened to 2.5" and opened to 45 caliber. The last picture shows the 450 Short BPE cartridge along-side a 45/70 cartridge for comparison. The case capacity of the 450 Short BPE is actually 5% more than that of a 45/90 Winchester case.

Note the tiny screw tucked under the cheek-piece. (see picture 9) I removed it, and it does nothing except plug-into a neatly drilled hole. Could this be some kind of game counter?

The only markings: on the bottom of the right barrel are the last 4 digits of the serial number - and a number 7 on the bottom barrel rib. A "Crown V" appears on both barrels.

Now that is one hell of an interesting double rifle! How cool is that!
Cal

Yes very cool & unusual, with a scope mount no less, like a Jet Engine strapped to a Biplane !

quote:

Originally posted by cal pappas:
Now that is one hell of an interesting double rifle! How cool is that!
Cal

Hello Cal,

Thanks for the reply.

Yes, this is the "most interesting" double rifle I've ever seen. Even more cool than my Fredrich Stendabach 8mm.
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quote:

Originally posted by Sarg:
Yes very cool & unusual, with a scope mount no less, like a Jet Engine strapped to a Biplane !

Hello Sarg,

Thanks for the reply.

I'm thinking the scope mount is from pre-WWI. I've seen similar ones on antique bolt guns, but never a double rifle. I'll be searching the German internet for a scope and mount to fit.

That rifle is awesome!!!

Hello Slider,

Thanks for the reply.

Here is my first test target. I used 2 different aiming points. Dead center hold and 6 o'clock hold. Although this is only the beginning of my load testing, things look very promising. I'll try some heavier bullets next time, to see if they un-cross.

What an interesting double rifle. Enjoy the adventure of getting the old girl up and running. I am envious. Have fun

quote:

Originally posted by wildmansix:
What an interesting double rifle. Enjoy the adventure of getting the old girl up and running. I am envious. Have fun

Hello wildmansix,

Thanks for the reply.

Well, I do have the "old girl" up and running. Here's my latest shooting results. I might do a little more tweaking because the barrels are still crossing. But with the way its grouping, I'm more than pleased. And, its relatively flat shooting out to 150 yds. At that range it still has over 800 ft/lbs of energy. That's plenty enough for anything here in Wisconsin. Also, the pressures at this load level are mild with fired cases dropping easily back into the chambers. This allows for neck sizing only which will result in long case life.

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And ...... Here's an update 4/28/18

I tried some Hornady 45 cal Flex-Tip bullets today. They weigh 325 grains, which is very close to the weight of one of the original bullets for the 11.6x65R, which weighed 20.9 grams. ( = 323 grains )

And what a welcome surprise! Not only did they "un-cross" but they grouped better than any other bullets tested. Also, because of the "point" as opposed to a flat nose, the bullet has a higher ballistic coefficient. This results in the ft/lbs energy increasing by about 150 ft/lbs over the entire 150 yard range.

I'm done! This will be my "best load" for this rifle from now on. It took 92 shots to come to this final grouping.

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I just had a friend email me to say I should have quit after the first 2 shots, or at least I should have taken a picture of that first pair. They were 1/2" apart. Well, OK, I did take a picture.

That's fantastic! With such great results from moving up to 1,450 fps, are you going to try 1,500?

quote:

Originally posted by Fjold:
That's fantastic! With such great results from moving up to 1,450 fps, are you going to try 1,500?

Hello Fjold,

Thanks for the reply.

As the target above shows, I'm at 1480 fps. That's good enough.

I actually went as high as 1680 fps with 300g HP bullets, but they were crossing by 2-1/2" at 50 yards. All 3 other bullets tested, 300g, 350g, and 400g, were crossing at 50 yards. Only the 325g Flex-Tips were un-crossed.

Hello All,

Here are a couple pictures of the locks on this double rifle. The reason I removed them, is that today while shooting I had the rifle "double" on me. When I fired the right barrel, BOTH barrels fired. This happened on the 4th pair. WOW ! !

Normally the recoil from shooting this 8-1/4 pound rifle with a 325g bullet traveling 1560 fps, is about 17.7 ft/lbs. That's not bad from an 8-1/4 pound rifle. However, when it "doubled", the recoil spiked to 71 ft/lbs. This is the first time this has happened in over 100 shots, but 71 ft/lbs of recoil really hurts from an 8-1/4 pound rifle.

This is why I removed the locks. I thoroughly cleaned and oiled them, and tightened a few loose screws. I'm hoping that this won't happen again.