Those of you with experience in shooting the above calibers in moderate to strong winds, what were your remedies(other than to stop shooting) and outcomes of these situations?????

As the distance increased on these windy days, how did the faster sub .224 calibers perform?????

I guess it depends on what "strong" and "moderate" mean to you. And what "long range" means. For varmint shooting, once the wind gets above 25 mph I usually quit shooting the .22-250 unless the ranges are under 200 yards. On truly long range shots - over 350 yards for me - the wind can blow in multiple direction at once, and increased wind velocities only compound the problem.

I have wind drift tables with me and usually a small hand-held wind meter - but that only tells you the wind speed at the muzzle. Having a good spotter, or being able to spot your own misses, is the best way to increase your hits in the wind. I have no experience with sub-caliber cartridges.



.

"Float like a butterfly and sting like a bee." -- Muhammad Ali

We've shot p-dogs out in SoDak where the wind consistantly blows 20 and often blows 35 consistantly. The 17s are always the 100 yards and closer guns and can still be a challange at 35mph crosswind. We always keep shooting because we always have a long drive and limited time. It seems the only real remedy is wicked speed. The 223wssm, 250 and swift with 40 and 50 grain b-tips and 4000 to 4300 fps are the only guns that consistantly hit from 250 yards with the target still in frame. 243s with 70grain b-tips and 223s with anything typically have us guessing how far out of scope into the wind we need to hold. It definitly helps to have a spotter for at least 20-50 shots until you get a feel for the wind you have. With wind in the 10-20mph range the centerfire 17s are quite capable, but it seems once you get over 25 they blow right out of the county. Those days it seems alot of the time it is very difficult to just steady the rifle.

I just copied the specific load data off my ballistic program for my .223 with 40 grain V-Max's, my .20 Tactical with 40 grain V-Max's and my .17 Fire Ball/.17 MachIV with 25 grain V-Max's. My .22-250 with 55 grain V-Max's and finally a .17 caliber wildcat called the .17 Tactical. These are all my loads worked up to safely in my rifles and chrono'd on an Oheler 35P. All loads use 250 yards as the point of impact except the .17 Tactical which uses 275.

Load Data
~~~~~~~~~

Name: .223 Remington with 40 grain V-Max
Ballistic Coeff: 0.200
Bullet Weight: 40
Velocity: 3700
Target Distance: 250
Scope Height: 1.500
Temperature: 70
Altitude: 4500

Ballistic Data
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Range Elevation Velocity Energy ETA Drop Max Y 10mph Wind Deflect
0 yds -1.50 in 3700 fps 1216 fpe 0.000 sec 0.00 in -1.50 in -0.00 in
25 yds -0.43 in 3582 fps 1140 fpe 0.021 sec 0.08 in -0.58 in 0.06 in
50 yds 0.47 in 3468 fps 1068 fpe 0.042 sec 0.33 in -0.51 in 0.23 in
75 yds 1.19 in 3356 fps 1000 fpe 0.064 sec 0.76 in -0.40 in 0.53 in
100 yds 1.71 in 3248 fps 937 fpe 0.087 sec 1.39 in -0.24 in 0.97 in
125 yds 2.03 in 3142 fps 877 fpe 0.110 sec 2.22 in -0.01 in 1.54 in
150 yds 2.13 in 3039 fps 820 fpe 0.134 sec 3.27 in 0.28 in 2.24 in
175 yds 2.00 in 2938 fps 767 fpe 0.159 sec 4.55 in 0.63 in 3.08 in
200 yds 1.61 in 2840 fps 716 fpe 0.185 sec 6.08 in 1.07 in 4.07 in
225 yds 0.95 in 2744 fps 668 fpe 0.212 sec 7.89 in 1.59 in 5.25 in
250 yds 0.00 in 2649 fps 623 fpe 0.240 sec 9.99 in 2.20 in 6.59 in
275 yds -1.25 in 2557 fps 581 fpe 0.269 sec 12.39 in 2.92 in 8.09 in
300 yds -2.83 in 2467 fps 540 fpe 0.299 sec 15.12 in 3.74 in 9.77 in
325 yds -4.75 in 2378 fps 502 fpe 0.330 sec 18.19 in 4.68 in 11.62 in
350 yds -7.09 in 2291 fps 466 fpe 0.362 sec 21.68 in 5.76 in 13.72 in
375 yds -9.85 in 2207 fps 432 fpe 0.395 sec 25.59 in 6.99 in 16.05 in
400 yds -13.06 in 2124 fps 400 fpe 0.430 sec 29.94 in 8.39 in 18.60 in
425 yds -16.72 in 2042 fps 370 fpe 0.466 sec 34.75 in 9.95 in 21.35 in
450 yds -20.90 in 1962 fps 342 fpe 0.503 sec 40.08 in 11.71 in 24.35 in
475 yds -25.61 in 1884 fps 315 fpe 0.542 sec 45.94 in 13.67 in 27.57 in
500 yds -31.03 in 1809 fps 291 fpe 0.583 sec 52.51 in 15.89 in 31.18 in

Load Data
~~~~~~~~~

Name: Default Load: .20 Tactical with 40 V-Max @ 3,880
Ballistic Coeff: 0.285
Bullet Weight: 40
Velocity: 3880
Target Distance: 250
Scope Height: 1.500
Temperature: 70
Altitude: 4500

Ballistic Data
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Range Elevation Velocity Energy ETA Drop Max Y 10mph Wind Deflect
0 yds -1.50 in 3880 fps 1337 fpe 0.000 sec 0.00 in -1.50 in 0.00 in
25 yds -0.58 in 3793 fps 1278 fpe 0.020 sec 0.07 in -0.58 in 0.04 in
50 yds 0.19 in 3708 fps 1221 fpe 0.040 sec 0.30 in -0.52 in 0.17 in
75 yds 0.80 in 3625 fps 1167 fpe 0.060 sec 0.68 in -0.42 in 0.37 in
100 yds 1.25 in 3544 fps 1115 fpe 0.081 sec 1.23 in -0.28 in 0.65 in
125 yds 1.53 in 3464 fps 1065 fpe 0.102 sec 1.95 in -0.09 in 1.01 in
150 yds 1.62 in 3385 fps 1018 fpe 0.124 sec 2.85 in 0.15 in 1.45 in
175 yds 1.53 in 3308 fps 972 fpe 0.147 sec 3.94 in 0.45 in 1.99 in
200 yds 1.23 in 3233 fps 928 fpe 0.170 sec 5.23 in 0.80 in 2.64 in
225 yds 0.72 in 3159 fps 886 fpe 0.193 sec 6.73 in 1.21 in 3.38 in
250 yds 0.00 in 3086 fps 846 fpe 0.217 sec 8.45 in 1.69 in 4.21 in
275 yds -0.94 in 3014 fps 807 fpe 0.242 sec 10.38 in 2.24 in 5.12 in
300 yds -2.12 in 2943 fps 769 fpe 0.267 sec 12.56 in 2.86 in 6.14 in
325 yds -3.55 in 2874 fps 734 fpe 0.293 sec 14.98 in 3.56 in 7.26 in
350 yds -5.25 in 2806 fps 699 fpe 0.319 sec 17.68 in 4.35 in 8.52 in
375 yds -7.24 in 2739 fps 666 fpe 0.346 sec 20.66 in 5.22 in 9.89 in
400 yds -9.51 in 2672 fps 634 fpe 0.374 sec 23.93 in 6.20 in 11.39 in
425 yds -12.09 in 2607 fps 604 fpe 0.402 sec 27.50 in 7.27 in 12.99 in
450 yds -14.96 in 2543 fps 574 fpe 0.431 sec 31.37 in 8.45 in 14.70 in
475 yds -18.19 in 2479 fps 546 fpe 0.461 sec 35.59 in 9.74 in 16.55 in
500 yds -21.72 in 2417 fps 519 fpe 0.492 sec 40.12 in 11.15 in 18.50 in
525 yds -25.66 in 2355 fps 493 fpe 0.523 sec 45.05 in 12.70 in 20.63 in

Load Data
~~~~~~~~~

Name: Remington .17 Fire Ball with 25 grain V-Max
Ballistic Coeff: 0.230
Bullet Weight: 25
Velocity: 3800
Target Distance: 250
Scope Height: 1.500
Temperature: 70
Altitude: 4500

Ballistic Data
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Range Elevation Velocity Energy ETA Drop Max Y 10mph Wind Deflect
0 yds -1.50 in 3800 fps 802 fpe 0.000 sec 0.00 in -1.50 in 0.00 in
25 yds -0.51 in 3695 fps 758 fpe 0.020 sec 0.08 in -0.58 in 0.06 in
50 yds 0.32 in 3592 fps 716 fpe 0.041 sec 0.31 in -0.52 in 0.21 in
75 yds 0.98 in 3492 fps 677 fpe 0.062 sec 0.72 in -0.41 in 0.46 in
100 yds 1.46 in 3395 fps 640 fpe 0.084 sec 1.30 in -0.26 in 0.80 in
125 yds 1.76 in 3299 fps 604 fpe 0.106 sec 2.07 in -0.05 in 1.28 in
150 yds 1.85 in 3206 fps 571 fpe 0.129 sec 3.04 in 0.21 in 1.88 in
175 yds 1.73 in 3115 fps 539 fpe 0.153 sec 4.22 in 0.54 in 2.59 in
200 yds 1.40 in 3026 fps 508 fpe 0.177 sec 5.63 in 0.93 in 3.40 in
225 yds 0.82 in 2938 fps 479 fpe 0.202 sec 7.26 in 1.39 in 4.34 in
250 yds 0.00 in 2852 fps 452 fpe 0.228 sec 9.15 in 1.93 in 5.42 in
275 yds -1.10 in 2768 fps 425 fpe 0.255 sec 11.32 in 2.56 in 6.66 in
300 yds -2.49 in 2686 fps 400 fpe 0.283 sec 13.77 in 3.28 in 8.04 in
325 yds -4.17 in 2605 fps 377 fpe 0.311 sec 16.52 in 4.10 in 9.56 in
350 yds -6.16 in 2526 fps 354 fpe 0.340 sec 19.57 in 5.02 in 11.22 in
375 yds -8.48 in 2447 fps 332 fpe 0.370 sec 22.96 in 6.06 in 13.04 in
400 yds -11.17 in 2371 fps 312 fpe 0.401 sec 26.71 in 7.22 in 15.03 in
425 yds -14.27 in 2295 fps 292 fpe 0.433 sec 30.88 in 8.53 in 17.23 in
450 yds -17.80 in 2221 fps 274 fpe 0.467 sec 35.47 in 9.99 in 19.63 in
475 yds -21.77 in 2149 fps 256 fpe 0.501 sec 40.51 in 11.61 in 22.22 in
500 yds -26.19 in 2077 fps 240 fpe 0.537 sec 45.99 in 13.40 in 24.99 in

Compare the 500 yard drop and 10 mile per hour wind drift at 500 yards on all of em.

About all I shoot is sub .22 caliber rounds at varmints anymore. I think there are a lot of misconceptions about how small calibers react to wind just cause they are small. Ballistic Coefficient, velocity and projectile weight make up the majority of ballistic figures. Caliber size means little in that equation except in how it effects how much a projectile can weigh and how fast you can get it moving.

This last one is my fur getter. A .17 Tactical shooting 30 grain Berger Boat-tails, it's sighted in at 275. BB size hole going in, no exit, DRT. Like a .17 Rem on steroids.

Load Data
~~~~~~~~~

Name: .17 Tactical with a 30 Berger BT @ 4,000
Ballistic Coeff: 0.257
Bullet Weight: 30
Velocity: 4000
Target Distance: 275
Scope Height: 1.500
Temperature: 70
Altitude: 4500

Ballistic Data
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Range Elevation Velocity Energy ETA Drop Max Y 10mph Wind Deflect
0 yds -1.50 in 4000 fps 1066 fpe 0.000 sec 0.00 in -1.50 in 0.00 in
25 yds -0.53 in 3901 fps 1014 fpe 0.019 sec 0.07 in -0.58 in 0.04 in
50 yds 0.30 in 3805 fps 964 fpe 0.038 sec 0.28 in -0.53 in 0.17 in
75 yds 0.98 in 3710 fps 917 fpe 0.058 sec 0.64 in -0.43 in 0.39 in
100 yds 1.50 in 3618 fps 872 fpe 0.079 sec 1.16 in -0.30 in 0.69 in
125 yds 1.86 in 3528 fps 829 fpe 0.100 sec 1.85 in -0.11 in 1.08 in
150 yds 2.04 in 3440 fps 788 fpe 0.121 sec 2.71 in 0.12 in 1.56 in
175 yds 2.04 in 3353 fps 749 fpe 0.143 sec 3.75 in 0.40 in 2.15 in
200 yds 1.85 in 3269 fps 712 fpe 0.166 sec 4.99 in 0.74 in 2.84 in
225 yds 1.45 in 3186 fps 676 fpe 0.189 sec 6.43 in 1.14 in 3.64 in
250 yds 0.83 in 3104 fps 642 fpe 0.213 sec 8.09 in 1.61 in 4.54 in
275 yds 0.00 in 3025 fps 609 fpe 0.238 sec 9.96 in 2.15 in 5.54 in
300 yds -1.07 in 2946 fps 578 fpe 0.263 sec 12.07 in 2.76 in 6.65 in
325 yds -2.38 in 2869 fps 548 fpe 0.289 sec 14.43 in 3.45 in 7.88 in
350 yds -3.98 in 2794 fps 520 fpe 0.315 sec 17.06 in 4.22 in 9.25 in
375 yds -5.85 in 2720 fps 493 fpe 0.342 sec 19.98 in 5.10 in 10.76 in
400 yds -8.02 in 2647 fps 467 fpe 0.370 sec 23.19 in 6.07 in 12.39 in
425 yds -10.49 in 2575 fps 442 fpe 0.399 sec 26.70 in 7.14 in 14.15 in
450 yds -13.26 in 2504 fps 418 fpe 0.428 sec 30.51 in 8.32 in 16.02 in
475 yds -16.39 in 2434 fps 395 fpe 0.459 sec 34.68 in 9.63 in 18.05 in
500 yds -19.88 in 2366 fps 373 fpe 0.490 sec 39.22 in 11.07 in 20.24 in

Finally for an understandable comparison. My .22-250 load a round most of us shoot.

Load Data
~~~~~~~~~

Name: Default Load: .22-250 with 55 grain V-Max @ 3670
Ballistic Coeff: 0.255
Bullet Weight: 55
Velocity: 3670
Target Distance: 250
Scope Height: 1.500
Temperature: 70
Altitude: 4500

Ballistic Data
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Range Elevation Velocity Energy ETA Drop Max Y 10mph Wind Deflect
0 yds -1.50 in 3670 fps 1645 fpe 0.000 sec 0.00 in -1.50 in -0.00 in
25 yds -0.47 in 3578 fps 1563 fpe 0.021 sec 0.08 in -0.58 in 0.05 in
50 yds 0.39 in 3488 fps 1486 fpe 0.042 sec 0.33 in -0.51 in 0.18 in
75 yds 1.08 in 3400 fps 1411 fpe 0.064 sec 0.76 in -0.40 in 0.40 in
100 yds 1.57 in 3314 fps 1341 fpe 0.086 sec 1.38 in -0.24 in 0.74 in
125 yds 1.86 in 3229 fps 1273 fpe 0.109 sec 2.20 in -0.02 in 1.19 in
150 yds 1.95 in 3146 fps 1209 fpe 0.133 sec 3.22 in 0.25 in 1.75 in
175 yds 1.82 in 3065 fps 1147 fpe 0.157 sec 4.47 in 0.59 in 2.40 in
200 yds 1.46 in 2986 fps 1088 fpe 0.181 sec 5.94 in 1.00 in 3.16 in
225 yds 0.86 in 2907 fps 1032 fpe 0.207 sec 7.65 in 1.48 in 4.02 in
250 yds 0.00 in 2830 fps 978 fpe 0.233 sec 9.62 in 2.04 in 5.03 in
275 yds -1.14 in 2755 fps 927 fpe 0.260 sec 11.87 in 2.68 in 6.17 in
300 yds -2.57 in 2681 fps 878 fpe 0.288 sec 14.41 in 3.42 in 7.45 in
325 yds -4.29 in 2608 fps 830 fpe 0.316 sec 17.25 in 4.25 in 8.85 in
350 yds -6.32 in 2536 fps 785 fpe 0.345 sec 20.39 in 5.19 in 10.37 in
375 yds -8.69 in 2465 fps 742 fpe 0.375 sec 23.87 in 6.23 in 12.04 in
400 yds -11.40 in 2396 fps 701 fpe 0.406 sec 27.69 in 7.40 in 13.85 in
425 yds -14.52 in 2327 fps 661 fpe 0.437 sec 31.92 in 8.70 in 15.85 in
450 yds -18.05 in 2260 fps 624 fpe 0.470 sec 36.57 in 10.15 in 18.03 in
475 yds -22.02 in 2194 fps 588 fpe 0.504 sec 41.65 in 11.75 in 20.39 in
500 yds -26.44 in 2129 fps 553 fpe 0.539 sec 47.18 in 13.52 in 22.92 in

Except for the .223 they aren't as far from each other as some would have ya believe huh? In answer to your question you'll note that even at only 10MPH and 500 yards the .20 Tactical and .17 Tactical are slightly better but doping the wind at 500 yards, even with a rocket ship takes some doing. When that wind in South Dakota heads west it ends up in Montana . Ever present and 10 MPH is a real decent day in an Eastern Montana p-dog town.
Sorry this is so long.

Well you have to practice in the wind. I find 223 Rem with a 1:7 or 8 twist and 69 gn SMK's are great at bucking the wind inside 200 yards. I use Kentucky windage for 300 and further.

I throw 55 grain bergers in 20 tactical in bisley England

Wind is so un preditable there and it behaves better than a lot of 6 mm's and 224's

I also have to dial much less than previous 224's I've had

Check out the windrift numbers for 20 caliber

Only downside I had to use a 1 in 9 which limits me to 50 and 55 grains

Again as montdoug said

Fire form on rodents .......

Effective 350 - 450 yards
500 yards if you are shoting plates

Shooting in the wind is a breeze, pardon the pun. Figuring out and picking up on the wind changes is the hard part. For the most part, cross winds are less challenging to shoot in than head winds or tail winds.

Shooting fast will allow you to shoot more shots through fewer wind changes. Remember, the wind is never constant, it builds in velocity and slows back down.


Tubb and Zediker cover the topic pretty well in their books, probably worth the read if that's your goal. If you really want to learn to shoot in the wind go to Camp Perry for the National Matches. The wind out there is amazing at times.

In regards to bullet performance in the wind, most mid and long range 223 shooters use 80 grain sierras or something similar. BC and velocity are your friend.

There's another book that goes extensively into the subject, written by some canadian fullbore shooters. I'll find the book and post the title if you are interested. I've gotten more out of that one book than any other.

quote:

Originally posted by Rub Line:
Shooting in the wind is a breeze, pardon the pun. Figuring out and picking up on the wind changes is the hard part. For the most part, cross winds are less challenging to shoot in than head winds or tail winds.

Shooting fast will allow you to shoot more shots through fewer wind changes. Remember, the wind is never constant, it builds in velocity and slows back down.


Tubb and Zediker cover the topic pretty well in their books, probably worth the read if that's your goal. If you really want to learn to shoot in the wind go to Camp Perry for the National Matches. The wind out there is amazing at times.

In regards to bullet performance in the wind, most mid and long range 223 shooters use 80 grain sierras or something similar. BC and velocity are your friend.

There's another book that goes extensively into the subject, written by some canadian fullbore shooters. I'll find the book and post the title if you are interested. I've gotten more out of that one book than any other.

Sounds like you've run across some good info with those books you've mentioned.

Give me a PM if you will on the details. Thanks.

quote:

Originally posted by TEANCUM:

quote:

Originally posted by Rub Line:
Shooting in the wind is a breeze, pardon the pun. Figuring out and picking up on the wind changes is the hard part. For the most part, cross winds are less challenging to shoot in than head winds or tail winds.

Shooting fast will allow you to shoot more shots through fewer wind changes. Remember, the wind is never constant, it builds in velocity and slows back down.

Sounds like you've run across some good info with those books you've mentioned.

Give me a PM if you will on the details. Thanks.

I would think that a guy with your experience would be aware of these remedial truths. If not, I've over estimated you.

Get out there and do some shooting!

quote:

Originally posted by rcamuglia:

quote:

Originally posted by TEANCUM:

quote:

Originally posted by Rub Line:
Shooting in the wind is a breeze, pardon the pun. Figuring out and picking up on the wind changes is the hard part. For the most part, cross winds are less challenging to shoot in than head winds or tail winds.

Shooting fast will allow you to shoot more shots through fewer wind changes. Remember, the wind is never constant, it builds in velocity and slows back down.

Sounds like you've run across some good info with those books you've mentioned.

Give me a PM if you will on the details. Thanks.

I would think that a guy with your experience would be aware of these remedial truths. If not, I've over estimated you.

Get out there and do some shooting!

Thank you so very much for your concern!!!!

Always lookin' to improve and willing to learn from all sources.......well just about all sources. Seems like things get a bit windy here in Idaho.

Enjoy the EXPERIENCE of others in the wind doping area.

I've heard stories about the .204 in the wind and don't have a deer rifle in that caliber ......yet.

The .204 and my .20 Tactical are near ballistic twins. I have a .204 with a match chamber that is within a few FPS (literally) of that .20 Tac with both 32 and 40 grain bullets.
If you look at the last number bottom right in the charts I posted above you'll see the 10 MPH cross wind drift numbers at 500 yards.
Note the .20 Tac slaughters my .223 with 40 grainers and slightly edges out my .22-250 with 55 grain V-Max's (22.92 inch for the 250, 20.63 for the .20Tac/.204).
There have been many guys who have all kinds of preconceived notion about how sub .22 calibers behave it the wind only to come away giggling after a day shooting p-dogs with one (it's always windy shooting p-dogs). It's hard to explain how much help not losing your target in the scope under recoil and seeing your hits...or misses is. Sure makes it easier to correct if your seeing the dust from your own misses and calling your own next shot.
Even the little .17 Fire Ball only gives up 2 inches drift at 500 yards to the .22-250. Don't believe every thing ya hear till ya try one.

quote:

Originally posted by TEANCUM:

quote:

Originally posted by rcamuglia:

quote:

Originally posted by TEANCUM:

quote:

Originally posted by Rub Line:
Shooting in the wind is a breeze, pardon the pun. Figuring out and picking up on the wind changes is the hard part. For the most part, cross winds are less challenging to shoot in than head winds or tail winds.

Shooting fast will allow you to shoot more shots through fewer wind changes. Remember, the wind is never constant, it builds in velocity and slows back down.

Sounds like you've run across some good info with those books you've mentioned.

Give me a PM if you will on the details. Thanks.

I would think that a guy with your experience would be aware of these remedial truths. If not, I've over estimated you.

Get out there and do some shooting!

Thank you so very much for your concern!!!!

Always lookin' to improve and willing to learn from all sources.......well just about all sources. Seems like things get a bit windy here in Idaho.

Enjoy the EXPERIENCE of others in the wind doping area.

I've heard stories about the .204 in the wind and don't have a deer rifle in that caliber ......yet.

Nothing beats practice.

If you think it's too windy to shoot, GO SHOOT. It's the best time to really see what happens in tough conditions to your bullets downrange

Do you have access to a range to shoot out to 500?

Do you have a wind meter and a ballistics program you can run on a PDA or iPhone at your shooting location? They are indispensable. If not, print your data from JBM for current conditions before you go out.

Do you have a scope set up in MILS or MOA so you can hold off for wind?

Do you have finger adjustable target knobs on your scope?

If not, everything will be a guess.

Like hold over, holding for wind and guessing what 26" is at 450 yards is very imprecise.

The Wind Book by Linda K. Miller and Keith A cunningham. Lot's of good information in this book. .

quote:

Originally posted by rcamuglia:

quote:

Originally posted by TEANCUM:

quote:

Originally posted by rcamuglia:

quote:

Originally posted by TEANCUM:

quote:

Originally posted by Rub Line:
Shooting in the wind is a breeze, pardon the pun. Figuring out and picking up on the wind changes is the hard part. For the most part, cross winds are less challenging to shoot in than head winds or tail winds.

Shooting fast will allow you to shoot more shots through fewer wind changes. Remember, the wind is never constant, it builds in velocity and slows back down.

Sounds like you've run across some good info with those books you've mentioned.

Give me a PM if you will on the details. Thanks.

I would think that a guy with your experience would be aware of these remedial truths. If not, I've over estimated you.

Get out there and do some shooting!

Thank you so very much for your concern!!!!

Always lookin' to improve and willing to learn from all sources.......well just about all sources. Seems like things get a bit windy here in Idaho.

Enjoy the EXPERIENCE of others in the wind doping area.

I've heard stories about the .204 in the wind and don't have a deer rifle in that caliber ......yet.

Nothing beats practice.

If you think it's too windy to shoot, GO SHOOT. It's the best time to really see what happens in tough conditions to your bullets downrange

Do you have access to a range to shoot out to 500?

Do you have a wind meter and a ballistics program you can run on a PDA or iPhone at your shooting location? They are indispensable. If not, print your data from JBM for current conditions before you go out.

Do you have a scope set up in MILS or MOA so you can hold off for wind?

Do you have finger adjustable target knobs on your scope?

If not, everything will be a guess.

Like hold over, holding for wind and guessing what 26" is at 450 yards is very imprecise.

You mean practice like in EXPERIENCE????????

I thought all I had to do was do the math and read the books and magazines to know what the wind would do to the sub .224 calibers. One of my good buddies, the gun auction expert, Kaboom told all of us that just doing the math would be sufficient. And yes I do have the above mentioned equipment,....just haven't bought my new deer rifle yet.......the .204.

And now you are telling me I need to get EXPERIENCE??????

quote:

Nothing beats practice.

If you think it's too windy to shoot, GO SHOOT. It's the best time to really see what happens in tough conditions to your bullets downrange

Do you have access to a range to shoot out to 500?

Do you have a wind meter and a ballistics program you can run on a PDA or iPhone at your shooting location? They are indispensable. If not, print your data from JBM for current conditions before you go out.

Do you have a scope set up in MILS or MOA so you can hold off for wind?

Do you have finger adjustable target knobs on your scope?

If not, everything will be a guess.

Like hold over, holding for wind and guessing what 26" is at 450 yards is very imprecise.

*************************************************

You mean practice like in EXPERIENCE????????

I thought all I had to do was do the math and read the books and magazines to know what the wind would do to the sub .224 calibers. One of my good buddies, the gun auction expert, Kaboom told all of us that just doing the math would be sufficient. And yes I do have the above mentioned equipment,....just haven't bought my new deer rifle yet.......the .204.

Hey RC

I have been following your sage advice as listed above.

I've been practicing shooting deer with a .223 and a 22-250. So far it's been working out just fine and it looks like we have a winning combination here with these calibers especially when driven at high velocities. Sure seems like all this practicing is getting real close to being EXPERIENCE.

Do you have any practice at shooting deer with these calibers?????

It just seems like with all the comments you have been making about the use of these calibers you must have been practicing that a lot. Perhaps you and Kaboom could have a joint practice session and let us know how it all worked out?????

Thanks again for your encouragement to me to practice shooting in the wind to better figure out that challenge and here's hoping that practice works out for you to also be helpful.

Wishing you the best.

quote:

Originally posted by TEANCUM:

Hey RC

I have been following your sage advice as listed above.

I've been practicing shooting deer with a .223 and a 22-250. So far it's been working out just fine and it looks like we have a winning combination here with these calibers especially when driven at high velocities. Sure seems like all this practicing is getting real close to being EXPERIENCE.

Do you have any practice at shooting deer with these calibers?????

It just seems like with all the comments you have been making about the use of these calibers you must have been practicing that a lot. Perhaps you and Kaboom could have a joint practice session and let us know how it all worked out?????

Thanks again for your encouragement to me to practice shooting in the wind to better figure out that challenge and here's hoping that practice works out for you to also be helpful.

Wishing you the best.

Hey teancum,

The practice you need to do has to do with shooting at longer ranges with the .224 and sub calibers; that is what your question was and the purpose of this thread you started, right? It has nothing to do with practicing shooting deer with them, right?

No, you can't just print the data and assume it's right, although many times with many rifles and loads I have done just that and it has been very close if not right on the money. Most times you will have to tweak the data input usually for velocity to make the actual drop match the print out.

I actually nailed down a load for my .223 last weekend and then shot steel out to 700 yards to confirm the data I had. Had to make some slight adjustments to the input but it worked. Just think, if you were to do this practice in the wind and such, you would be able to wound more deer closer to the vital kill area (if that's where you actually aim) and at longer ranges where the .223 really runs out of gas (past 150 yards) than ever before! Heck I loaded a 52 grain Sierra which is about 10% heavier than some of the varmint bullets you guys use for deer. I know that the challenge of killing deer would disappear if you used 52 gr target bullets...overkill!

When I was shooting my .223 that day, feeling the recoil it produced that approximated a .17 HMR, I imagined shooting deer with it even at 100 yards and could only justify it for brain shots or on deer that weigh in the less than 75# range. Sorry to tell you I will never experience this. After seeing how much steel hangers move after being hit with the .223 Rem and the 52 grainer most ballistically intelligent folks realize how marginal the varmint cartridge is for big game. At 500 yards and out, you need a spotter to really be able to tell any indication of a hit.

Is that the size deer you guys hunt? 75#'s?

quote:

Originally posted by TEANCUM:
Those of you with experience in shooting the above calibers in moderate to strong winds, what were your remedies(other than to stop shooting) and outcomes of these situations?????

As the distance increased on these windy days, how did the faster sub .224 calibers perform?????

I've had an enormous amount of experience shooting (prairie dogs) with the .222, .223, .225 Win, .22-250, and the .220 Swift and yes.....at times in very serious winds.

Those bullets travel so fast that often times I didn't have to correct for the wind up to about 150 yards.....and after that the correction seemed exponential....so much so that by the time I was shooting at 300 yards it was all over.....I did the best thing I could do....

I broke out the heavier bullets of the .243-06 and that actually helped a lot.

By no means was the problem solved but at least some remnant of consistency was restored and I could adjust.

I must say however that I never shot more than 60 grain bullets in any of my .224 center fires....they might have been the best answer of all.

I've always said that if I ever build another Swift it'll have a 1-10 twist to shoot bullets in the 70 grain weights.

Rcamuglia--I can tell you have a lot of experience shooting in the wind. I bet it is always windy when you shoot. I do have some nagging questions and need a ballistically intelligent person to answer. The amount of movement of a steel gong is now a factor in ability of a round to kill a deer. If I made my gongs out of aluminum or better yet styrofoam, I would increase movement would that increase killing power? I doubt it as the deer here are now running around with steel gongs on their kill area. I also learned from your post that the amount of recoil is a determining factor. Could I mount a hammer on the butt of my rifle to increase it's killing power? Would feel like more recoil. I don't know what bow hunters would do to compensate for no recoil. My big question is you stated we could wound more deer closer to the vital area. Could you tell me which big boomer compensates and if you get close to the vitals it doesn't wound but puts em down? I did read on another thread you got a .223 tuned up and shooting well. I do think you go put a round through a deer's vitals and have some actual experience you'd find that your ballistic intelligence and whatever other credentials you might have would get trumped with this experience.

quote:

Originally posted by vapodog:

quote:

Originally posted by TEANCUM:
Those of you with experience in shooting the above calibers in moderate to strong winds, what were your remedies(other than to stop shooting) and outcomes of these situations?????

As the distance increased on these windy days, how did the faster sub .224 calibers perform?????

I've had an enormous amount of experience shooting (prairie dogs) with the .222, .223, .225 Win, .22-250, and the .220 Swift and yes.....at times in very serious winds.

Those bullets travel so fast that often times I didn't have to correct for the wind up to about 150 yards.....and after that the correction seemed exponential....so much so that by the time I was shooting at 300 yards it was all over.....I did the best thing I could do....

I broke out the heavier bullets of the .243-06 and that actually helped a lot.

By no means was the problem solved but at least some remnant of consistency was restored and I could adjust.

I must say however that I never shot more than 60 grain bullets in any of my .224 center fires....they might have been the best answer of all.

I've always said that if I ever build another Swift it'll have a 1-10 twist to shoot bullets in the 70 grain weights.

Thank you for the informative post!!!!

I was hunting rockchucks one spring and was set up at the top of a large canyon with many fingers and as normal the winds were up. The problem with many of the wind measuring devices is that they only tell you the speed and direction of the wind at your hand. We had cross winds in different directions and were missing a lot.

I finally ended up hitting two in a row at about 310 yards with a 22-250 by aiming 18" to the right. I was surprised by the amount of allowance that was required. My buddy and I did walk each other on to the chucks but that took about 4-5 misses to do.

Hunting in these basalt canyons in the spring time here is always windy and I was hoping that someone had found the magic to shooting in these very windy conditions to eliminate so many misses.

quote:

Originally posted by carpetman1:
Rcamuglia--I can tell you have a lot of experience shooting in the wind. I bet it is always windy when you shoot. I do have some nagging questions and need a ballistically intelligent person to answer. The amount of movement of a steel gong is now a factor in ability of a round to kill a deer. If I made my gongs out of aluminum or better yet styrofoam, I would increase movement would that increase killing power? I doubt it as the deer here are now running around with steel gongs on their kill area. I also learned from your post that the amount of recoil is a determining factor. Could I mount a hammer on the butt of my rifle to increase it's killing power? Would feel like more recoil. I don't know what bow hunters would do to compensate for no recoil. My big question is you stated we could wound more deer closer to the vital area. Could you tell me which big boomer compensates and if you get close to the vitals it doesn't wound but puts em down? I did read on another thread you got a .223 tuned up and shooting well. I do think you go put a round through a deer's vitals and have some actual experience you'd find that your ballistic intelligence and whatever other credentials you might have would get trumped with this experience.

Sure carpetman! Being the cordial, helpful, and understanding person that I am, I'm always willing to help beginners, Rookies, and neophytes gather knowledge to improve their ballistic understanding and their application of it into developing a better, more advanced set of ethics to use in the field while persuing America's most respected big game animals.

But in your cases, nothing I say will change your mind.

I can only agree with you then and recommend that you shoot "steel plates" with your .223 that will confirm your beliefs of its physics-defying killing power. You could use balsa wood at extended ranges and paint them black. When you hit them and spin them in full revolutions, proving the cartridge's downrange energy.

And yes, learning to be accurate in the wind will allow you to make impacts nearer to the zone. At long range this skill with the .223 will allow precise bullet placement even though the puny bullet has run out of energy insuring minimal penetration and positive maximization of wounding potential. I would hate to recommend a cartridge capable of firing a heavier bullet that would carry more energy at the POI therefore creating more tissue damage and an obviously quicker, cleaner kill.

That might be taken as rude and misconstrued into some kind of "holier than thou" deal...

quote:

Sure carpetman! Being the cordial, helpful, and understanding person that I am, I'm always willing to help beginners, Rookies, and neophytes gather knowledge to improve their ballistic understanding and their application of it into developing a better, more advanced set of ethics to use in the field while persuing America's most respected big game animals.

But in your cases, nothing I say will change your mind.

I can only agree with you then and recommend that you shoot "steel plates" with your .223 that will confirm your beliefs of its physics-defying killing power. You could use balsa wood at extended ranges and paint them black. When you hit them and spin them in full revolutions, proving the cartridge's downrange energy.

And yes, learning to be accurate in the wind will allow you to make impacts nearer to the zone. At long range this skill with the .223 will allow precise bullet placement even though the puny bullet has run out of energy insuring minimal penetration and positive maximization of wounding potential. I would hate to recommend a cartridge capable of firing a heavier bullet that would carry more energy at the POI therefore creating more tissue damage and an obviously quicker, cleaner kill.

That might be taken as rude and misconstrued into some kind of "holier than thou" deal...

Loosely translated.....I think this means "get bent"

rcamgulia--thanks for your usual armchair experience babble.

quote:

Originally posted by carpetman1:
rcamgulia--thanks for your usual armchair experience babble.

Glad I was able to help!

If you need anything else, just give a whistle!