I would be interested in your opinions and anecdotal ‘evidence’ and suggestions on the best 25cal compromise bullet weight for my 303-25.

I am just starting out with my 25 cal. It came with a bunch of hand loaded cartridges with what I think are 87gr bullets. (I couldn't find a puller Collet so I haven't pulled one yet). The rifle also came with a box of 100gr Sierra Pro-Hunters and a box of 85gr Nosler Ballistic Tips. But aside from what I have on hand, what is the best all round bullet weight for a 250 Savage class rifle that will be used mainly for feral goat hunting with the occasional deer thrown in. Those deer can be Reds. The odd feral pig might come into the picture but that would be rare. The goats usually present at quiet close ranges but the intention is to seek out longer range opportunities. (Oh, magpies are on the menu too and they often need a bit of range).

The thing is, this rifle can only propel a 100gr bullet at about 2850fps - which is substantial but gives a bit more drop at longer ranges than I would like. The 85gr bullet would do about 3050fps. (What I am getting at is that I would prefer 100gr bullets at 3000 plus fps but have to compromise. And for deer I would prefer 120gr bullets and if necessary, I could load up some RN's just for deer).

So far, those 87gr loads have been quiet devastating on goats but I see massive explosive damage. I have no idea how they would perform at longer ranges.

I think you can run the Sierra 90 grain HP close to 3,000 FPS and it's a fine big game bullet.....damn thing works!

Try the 100 grain Hornady spire point. It holds up better than any conventional bullet I have ever seen.

Find a load for the Barnes' 80 gr TTSX or 100 gr TSX, and call it good....

SBB

The 100gr Barnes TSX is an excellent 25 caliber bullet.

OK. It sounds like the 90gr HP will be good for both deer and longer range varminting.

Then there is the Hornady spire point if trajectory is not a problem. By "holding together" does that mean they would do an end to end penetration of a goat sized animal? (Of significance if shooting a running away goat or a pig facing me - I don't want to wound a goat and I don't want to make a pig cross, especially when he's got me in his cross-hairs).

Given the cost of Barnes bullets I am a bit hesitant because I do quite a bit of plinking but they do make sense from a versatility point of view and the bullet terminal charts sure give them a thumbs up!

Hello my friend, how's your summer going?

check out my thread on "Speed Goat bullets", you'll find some more Sierra 90 HPBT fans

http://forums.accuratereloadin.../6711043/m/477107859

As to the 100 Hornady holding up, I put one in about the last rib on a mature whitetail buck and it exited just in front of the off shoulder a few years ago. Started at 3000 out of my 257 Roberts, range was about 150 yards. Last year I used the 100 Speer Hot Core out of a M99R 250 Savage on a whitetail doe at 200 yards. Started at about 2800, it blew through both shoulders and kept on going. Really think the Hornady Interlock is a bit tougher though. I hear that Barnes is bringing out a 85 or 89 gr. TTSX, should be just what your looking for.

quote:

Hello my friend, how's your summer going?

We are having the most fantastic weather! It hasn't rained for a few days now - not that I have a problem with the rain, or any weather for that matter! You folks are in the depths of winter! Holy cow! Time flies! I'm just cooking up some traditional Boer Wors that a work mate gave me.
I did look for your thread, but couldn't find it (with a quick search). Re-read it now - thanks. (At that time I didn't have my 25). I had forgotten about the 200lb goat - that is huge!

So it seems the 25 is one of those 'magical' calibers. Mine has so little recoil that I don't actually notice it. (It does have a muzzle break of my own conception that also happens to reduce muzzle blast to a surprising degree - enough to call it a 'suppressor'). I have just reset the scope back so I can hold the rifle off-hand with my head up straight. I can now let off the trigger off-hand, effortlessly, with the cross hairs on target. Can’t wait for next hunt! Armed with new information on bullets, I will be paying close attention to bullet performance. (I do post mortem wound inspections. It sometimes surprizes me how any animal can remain on it's feet for any length of time).

100 TSX or or 110 Accubond

My .257 Wby loves the Nosler 115 or 120 grain Partition. Good shooting.

in 250 savage class the 87gr or the 90gr bullets should do the job you want them to do.the 100grs will work they just do it a little slower and you have to sight in accordly.Good Luck

Given that you do not want to have a angry hog chasing you around I would recommend the 100 grain Nosler partition and never look back.

My buddies and I have shot a LOT of wild hogs with the 100 grain Nosler in 25-06 rifles. Yes, we have much more velocity than your rifle will provide, but they will still work.

We have shot a fair number of hogs at long range where the bullet velocity has fallen off. Performance has been quite good.

We have shoot antelope at pretty darned long range with this bullet with good effect.

And, I have shot hogs up close and personal with the 100 grain partition and have never had a complaint.

I you want more speed, that new 80 grain Barnes TSX would probably be a great bullet for your uses.

quote:

... 100grs will work they just do it a little slower and you have to sight in accordly.

Just how much 'in the field' difference does it make? Would it limit my 'long range' varminting? According to the ballistic calculators, the lighter bullets are only slightly flatter shooting out to 200m and depending on which one, are actually slower and drop more at 400m. Realistically, 400m is a hell of a long way. Should I even be looking at that possibility?

I have chosen a 'hot' velocity for these comparisons. Ranges are in meters. Note the difference in 'Big Game Knock-down' (lb).

Calculated Table 100gr Hornady SP
Range Drop Drop Windage Windage Velocity Mach OGW Time Lead Lead
(m) (cm) (in) (cm) (in) (ft/s) (none) (lb) (s) (cm) (in)
100 4.4 1.7 2.9 1.2 2592.4 2.322 261.3 0.120 53.5 21.1
125 4.4 1.7 4.6 1.8 2518.8 2.256 239.7 0.152 67.8 26.7
150 3.4 1.3 6.8 2.7 2446.3 2.191 219.6 0.185 82.6 32.5
175 1.3 0.5 9.3 3.7 2374.5 2.127 200.8 0.219 97.8 38.5
200 -2.0 -0.8 12.4 4.9 2302.6 2.062 183.1 0.254 113.5 44.7
225 -6.5 -2.6 15.9 6.3 2232.0 1.999 166.8 0.290 129.7 51.1
250 -12.4 -4.9 19.9 7.8 2162.6 1.937 151.7 0.327 146.4 57.6
275 -19.7 -7.7 24.5 9.7 2094.4 1.876 137.8 0.366 163.6 64.4
300 -28.4 -11.2 29.7 11.7 2027.5 1.816 125.0 0.406 181.4 71.4
325 -38.8 -15.3 35.4 13.9 1961.8 1.757 113.3 0.447 199.8 78.7
350 -50.9 -20.0 41.8 16.4 1897.5 1.700 102.5 0.489 218.8 86.1
375 -64.8 -25.5 48.8 19.2 1834.5 1.643 92.6 0.533 238.4 93.9
400 -80.7 -31.8 56.5 22.2 1773.0 1.588 83.6 0.579 258.8 101.9

07 Dec 2008 09:10:36, JBM [http://www.eskimo.com/~jbm]

Calculated Table 90gr Sierra HPBT
Range Drop Drop Windage Windage Velocity Mach OGW Time Lead Lead
(m) (cm) (in) (cm) (in) (ft/s) (none) (lb) (s) (cm) (in)
100 4.3 1.7 3.6 1.4 2641.2 2.366 223.9 0.116 51.7 20.4
125 4.4 1.8 5.8 2.3 2546.9 2.281 200.7 0.147 65.9 25.9
150 3.6 1.4 8.4 3.3 2454.6 2.199 179.7 0.180 80.5 31.7
175 1.6 0.6 11.6 4.6 2364.2 2.118 160.5 0.214 95.7 37.7
200 -1.6 -0.6 15.4 6.1 2275.6 2.038 143.2 0.250 111.6 43.9
225 -6.1 -2.4 19.8 7.8 2188.9 1.961 127.4 0.286 128.0 50.4
250 -11.9 -4.7 24.9 9.8 2104.0 1.885 113.2 0.325 145.1 57.1
275 -19.2 -7.6 30.6 12.1 2021.1 1.810 100.3 0.364 162.9 64.1
300 -28.1 -11.1 37.1 14.6 1941.7 1.739 88.9 0.406 181.4 71.4
325 -38.8 -15.3 44.3 17.5 1864.8 1.670 78.8 0.449 200.6 79.0
350 -51.4 -20.2 52.4 20.6 1789.9 1.603 69.7 0.494 220.7 86.9
375 -66.0 -26.0 61.3 24.1 1717.2 1.538 61.5 0.540 241.6 95.1
400 -82.9 -32.6 71.1 28.0 1646.9 1.475 54.3 0.589 263.4 103.7

07 Dec 2008 09:12:32, JBM [http://www.eskimo.com/~jbm]

quote:

Originally posted by phurley5:
My .257 Wby loves the Nosler 115 or 120 grain Partition. Good shooting.

Yup, mine too!

303, What you're seeing in your calculations, I think, is the effect of ballistic coefficient. As you go up in bullet weight, in most cases, the ballistic coefficient goes up as well. That usually offsets the loss in velocity to some extent. Find a bullet that has the right balance of weight, available velocity and ballistic coefficient. That'll give you what you're looking for. Personally, in my 257 Roberts, it's the 100 TSX. I push it to right at 3000fps and it works wonders on whitetails. I figure that's about the same as your feral goats. I imagine it would work fine on varmints and I'm quite sure it'll do the job on the pigs. When the 80gr. TSX or TTSX makes it to the shelves that'd probably be the choice for what you want. Then again, depending on the ballistic coefficient, the difference in trajectory may be very minor, in which case I would opt for the 100gr. bullet.

David

My observations are that 87g and lighter bullets seem to be more varmint oriented than heavier ones.....and therefore aren't meant to hold together as well.

With that in mind, I'd look for the bullet your rifle shoots best by weight, then try to find one that holds up well at that weight. With that in mind, you might look at the Nosler Accubond around 100g for a good combo of accuracy and toughness with decent BC.

Just my .02 from working with the 257 Roberts and 25 WSSM.

Cheers,

Dan

I'd go for the 110 Accubond!

Shoots beautifully in both my custom 25-05 and a 257Wby.

My personal for a hunting bullet would either be 120gr Nosler Partition, or the 115 TSX can't go wrong with either one.

I would strongly recommend against using the 90 grain Sierra BTHP for medium game. I used them in the 250-3000, 257 Roberts, and 257 AI for about 20 years and they killed deer as quickly as I have ever seen, when they work. The problem that I had was that they would sometime come apart without penetrating through the rib cage and into the pleural cavity. I had 2 of them fail just weeks apart, they blew dinner plate sided wounds in the hide, but didn't come close to penetrating through the ribs. The hits knocked the deer down and they were certainly in enough shock that a 2nd shot was easy, but the 2nd shots shouldn't have been necessary. I had the same problem with the 85 grain Sierra BTHP .243" bullet too, so I have gone to the 100 grain Partitions and 110 grain AB in most of my .257" bore rifles and the 95 grain Partition in my .243" bore rifles.

You may have as much success as I did with them, but 4 failures was enough to sour me on using Sierra BTHPs for medium game. That said, I still load them for shooting coyotes.

Jeff

FWIW Sierra states that both the 243 85gr BTHP, and the 257 90gr BTHP are varmint bullets despite their GameKing moniker.

Thanks for all the great info!

I can relate to bullet failure, or rather, lack of penetration. One feral goat I shot was running full speed directly at me (they do that sometimes - I wonder what would happen if I just let them run?) I shot it on the point of the shoulder, totally shattering the fore-bone and the shoulder blade and pretty much mincing the muscle but it simply dived into the bush down a very steep slope, where it disappeared. It found it (it was bleating) but only an hour or so later. That was an 87gr Sierra. The bullet worked OK but didn't make it into the boiler room. I wasn't happy with the goat lying hidden in the bush, wounded, for an hour or more. (I could have looked harder but I thought I had missed! I had already given up the search and moved off when I realised that a miss would have kicked up some dust).

quote:

... I figure that's about the same as your feral goats. ...

Feral goats are not very big. Some are quite small but the bigger ones might be as big as a domestic sheep. A hornet kills them rather well (when loaded with 55gr bullets). The hornet just doesn't have the range and I would never contemplate shooting a deer (or pig) with it. As much as I love that hornet, I love that 25 too! I think it is a 'brilliant' caliber. Mind you, shooting hares with the 303 Brit is fun too! Kills then real dead.

Intereting thing, the 303-25 has about the same 'noticeable' recoil as the hornet! (Must be due to the muzzle break/suppressor device on it). A great thing about it is I can hold it and shoot it like a 22lr, without fear of being smacked on the eye-brow!

FWIW, the toughest cup & core 87 grain .257" bullet that I have used is the Speer HotCore. I use it in my 1 in 14" twist 250-3000 rifles with good success and it has a nice side benefit, in that you can use the 87 grain Speer TNT for varmints without rezeroing you scope, as they shoot to the same approximate POA in my rifles.

Jeff

303 guy
I use the 100gr TSX in my 257 Roberts loaded to 2850 fps. I have shot them out to 525 yards and they hold together great and have a very good trajectory. When you get beyond 300 yards a heavier, sleeker bullet will drop less than a faster, lighter hollow point. Both the Accubond and TSX will fit what you want to do, I just like the terminal performance of the TSX better.

Perry

Great information - thanks Folks!

perry
What twist does your rifle have? Your velocity would be about what I can expect in my rifle without pushing the envelope, so your experience would be very relevant to me.

110gr Accubonds have been suggested but from what I can gather, I might have stability issues with anything over 100gr. Only one way to find out of course. After all, I did manage to get very respectable accuracy with 60gr spire points in my 1 in 16 twist hornet! (I went back to 55 grainers because they were cheaper and shot a bit flatter).

I shall be loading up some 100gr Sierra's that I have (I will put the 85gr Ballistic Tips aside) and see how those perform in the field. I'm not sure if I would use them on a Red deer 'though. I still think in terms of 180gr 303 for bigger game although I have seen and heard smaller bullets doing just fine! Hell, the hornet didn't let goats get away, so..... Still, Red deer are big - I'll have to gain confidence in the 25 first.

Would I be able to switch from 100gr cup 'n core bullets to 100gr TSX's? Meaning, what are my chances of developing two loads to shoot the same POI?

P.S. I see that the 100gr TSX (BT) bullet has a slightly better BC than a 100gr SPS (FB).

My .257 Roberts likes the Speer 100 grain spitzer. I have either 8 deer with 9 rounds or 7 with 8, all Mule deer. I use the max load of IMR 4350 in the Speer book. My longest shot on a deer has been about 75 yards but I did get a coyote at about 400.
The higher-priced spread has no appeal for me.

quote:

Originally posted by 390ish:
Try the 100 grain Hornady spire point. It holds up better than any conventional bullet I have ever seen.

Yup. I like their 117 grain BTSP too.

303 guy I have an 25-303 Epps imp rifle that will be very similar to yours. I have found the best bullet for my rifle (for accuracy and bullet performance) on deer sized game to be the 100 gr speer Spitzer. The 100 gr Hornady is also good but the speer groups a little better in my rifle. Hope that helps.

303, it is not scientific, but from all I've read on AR, there seems to be a common thread for cup-core bullets -- Sierra bullets are more accurate but Hornady bullets are tougher

30+ years of shooting the Speers, Sierras and Hornadys from 25-06' and 257 Roberts.............Speers, good value for money, decent accuracy and reliability when shooting varmints or deer. SIERRA.....Accurracy and killing efficiency, perform the same way, time and again, day in day out, year in year out, their 117 grain Spitzer Boat Tail is a classic bullet! Hornady.........blood and guts and gore! They kill! They are accurate with the occasional flyer but they do offer blood and guts and blood trails............personally, I don't shoot if I can't "drive to it" on the 4 wheeler or the truck! I want it "DRT", "dead right there" and the Seirras have BTDT for me in several calibers without the added price of a little cute colored plastic tip. Shoot your SIERRAS and be pleased! GHD

303, for you Kiwi's, BTDT means "been there, done that" I think

GHD, what is your opinion on Boat Tails vs FBs

I've been shooting the Hornady 117 grain BTSP Interlock in my .257 Wby Mag. It shoots great (I regularly practice out to 330 yds) and it is devastating on deer sized game. The velocity is appprox. 3200 fps.

quote:

I have found the best bullet for my rifle (for accuracy and bullet performance) on deer sized game to be the 100 gr speer Spitzer.

Thanks for that. I did look in my local gun shop but they had very little of speer anything.

quote:

Originally posted by Abob:
303, for you Kiwi's, BTDT means "been there, done that" I think.

Thanks. I was wondering what it meant!

quote:

303, it is not scientific, but from all I've read on AR, there seems to be a common thread for cup-core bullets -- Sierra bullets are more accurate but Hornady bullets are tougher

Thanks again!

quote:

Shoot your SIERRAS and be pleased! GHD

Thanks!