Has anyone used the hornady A-Max for deer sized game? I have found a load in the 6.5-284 with the 123gr that will shoot the cents off a nickel at 200 yards and I can't help but think this would be a great deer load. MV is in the neiborhood of 3100fps. The rifle is on the heavy side and the plan would be to set up on the prairie and watch the deer come out of the draws for the evening feed where shots will be 150 to 400 yards.

Well, the A series aren't game bullets but a hole in the right place will surely kill deer. ??

I used one this year to shoot a coues at 375yd and was pretty happy with the result. Those are only 100lb deer but i'll use them again. Shayne

The 168 AMAX in 308 caliber are deer and hog killing machines. They work very well.

why would you use a bullet not designed for deer hunting, when you can purchase a bullet that is 3 grains less, that was designed with hunting in mind???

sorry, but I just don't get it...

Gidday Seafire,

I'm with you but there seems to be quite a following in NZ for using Amaxes on game animals especially at long range ie. over 300 metres.

They claim they open well at extended ranges and a very accurate but I see it as a recipe for disaster as any close range encounters run the risk of a blowup.

Happy Hunting

Hamish

My reasoning is hunting bullets at close range are great, open fast, and kill quick. At long range maybe not so much. I have a couple of favorite spots where I hunt in South Dakota that afford great views of lots of deer, but no approach. At one spot shots start at 185 yards and stretch to 400. It's an open space between bedding areas. From where I sit I can watch deer all afternoon without detection with any wind other than east. The A-Max seemed a nice soft cup n core with the tip to ensure it opened...and they really fly well from my rifle. I have used 6mm 70grain Ballistic tips for this same purpose and they performed very well.

I used the Hornady factory 6.5 Grendel ammo last season to take one doe, and the bullet worked properly as a hunting bullet. It expanded and exited, and the deer didn't go far.

KB

Thanks kabluewy. That's an answer to a question. Was there excessive meat damage? Do you know roughly the impact velocity?

The 6.5 Grendel is not a fast cartridge to start with. The deer was lazered at 180 yds. So, the bullet had slowed down a bit. The meat damage was minimal, and the bullet obviously opened up.

Midway has the factory 6.5 Grendel listed, and in the description they mention it as a hunting bullet.

IMO, this bullet will kill deer well, but driven fast I'm pretty sure it will be explosive. I'm pretty sure it was designed specifically for the 6.5 Grendel.

The reasons I used it was because I was short on time to develope an alternate load, and this one was handy and accurate at the range. For the combo I used it in, I would use it again for that purpose. For factory ammo, it's good stuff.

For really fast loads, in cartridges with more powder capacity, if I thought that maybe explosive performance might not be what I was looking for, the Barnes TTSX or TSX bullets would be an awesome alternative.

On a later hunt, after I developed a load with the 100gr Barnes TTSX 6.5mm bullet, it also performed great on deer.

The limited test on game, with the two bullets mentioned, convinced me of the adequacy of the 6.5 Grendel on deer size game. I like the 6.5mm.

KB

I like TSXs and Partitions, and Scirroccos, and Gamekings and so on. I used to have a good supply of farm hogs of all sizes that would need to be put down for one reason or another. I tried most bullets of the time from a wide range of calibers and cartridges. I found that the biggest diffrence between premium and standard cup and core hunting and match type bullets was meat damage and rose wound diameter. Most of the bullets that "blew up" actually killed pigs on contact, but impact area was mangled and the entrance looked like an exit. Bullets like matchkings and ballistic tips like the 85gr 257 and 70 grain 243 wouldn't blow up , but would have a 10 inch red circle around the entrance, no exit, and you could pour out the heart and lungs. typically the animals would go straight down and be done twitchen within 10 to 15 seconds. On pigs under 350 pounds it seemed that bullets of any caliber that weighed 115 grains or more could handel shoulders, frontals, and texas heart shots. once they got to 400 pounds and bigger the diffrence in hide and especially bones really started to weed out bullet types and sectional densities for reliability at all shot angles and blow ups could potentially not crack the organ cavity. In most cases I have found deer of equal mass much easier to punch holes in and easier to make big holes in the off side on. I think I may give the A-Max a try this fall.

The way I understand it from an expert here is it depends on what is pictured on the box that the bullet comes in. Tell us what animal is pictured on the box and then we can answer your question.

quote:

Originally posted by carpetman1:
Tell us what animal is pictured on the box and then we can answer your question.

Who's "we"? Ya got a mouse in your pocket? For some people, spell it out in words, or show a picture, and they still don't get it.

KB

quote:

Originally posted by Quintus:
I like TSXs and Partitions, and Scirroccos, and Gamekings and so on. I used to have a good supply of farm hogs of all sizes that would need to be put down for one reason or another. I tried most bullets of the time from a wide range of calibers and cartridges. I found that the biggest diffrence between premium and standard cup and core hunting and match type bullets was meat damage and rose wound diameter. Most of the bullets that "blew up" actually killed pigs on contact, but impact area was mangled and the entrance looked like an exit. Bullets like matchkings and ballistic tips like the 85gr 257 and 70 grain 243 wouldn't blow up , but would have a 10 inch red circle around the entrance, no exit, and you could pour out the heart and lungs. typically the animals would go straight down and be done twitchen within 10 to 15 seconds. On pigs under 350 pounds it seemed that bullets of any caliber that weighed 115 grains or more could handel shoulders, frontals, and texas heart shots. once they got to 400 pounds and bigger the diffrence in hide and especially bones really started to weed out bullet types and sectional densities for reliability at all shot angles and blow ups could potentially not crack the organ cavity. In most cases I have found deer of equal mass much easier to punch holes in and easier to make big holes in the off side on. I think I may give the A-Max a try this fall.

The previous owner of my 6.5-06 developed a super accurate 2770fps load with 140gr A-Maxs for target shooting but he did shoot one Fallow deer with the A-Max and said that the bullet opened up well and made a mess of the internals, exiting the animal too. I have developed a good load for the 6.5-06 using Sierra 140gr GKs and will be using this on tahr and chamois in a weeks time.

Well now I'm screwed. I just went through all my bullet boxes and NONE of my 6.5 bullets have a picture!!! I guess it's just not meant to hunt. Anyone want to buy a 6.5x284? And I had such high hopes.

Kowblowey Who's we? You wouldn't expect any one person--other than yourself to answer the question would you? Gosh nobody else has your vast keyboard experience which trumps any actual experience anyone might have.

quote:

Originally posted by carpetman1:
You wouldn't expect any one person--other than yourself to answer the question would you? Gosh nobody else has your vast keyboard experience which trumps any actual experience anyone might have.

I'm wondering if you have any info that's actually useful and on topic. Could it be that your limited experience hasn't ventured beyond the use of varmint bullets or cast bullets for deer?

KB

quote:

Originally posted by carpetman1:
The way I understand it from an expert here is it depends on what is pictured on the box that the bullet comes in. Tell us what animal is pictured on the box and then we can answer your question.

This proves 223 are fine for deer. It even has a picture on the box.

http://gunwriter.wordpress.com...er-load-for-the-223/

There ya go CM. But are you too cheap to spring for a box of real deer hunting ammo, or will you just keep using those with the picture of the GOPHER on the box?

KB

If it aint broke don't fix it. Why would I risk another bullet not being as good?

As I recall, it would be difficult to pick a worse bullet for deer than the one that's your favorite.

A friend of mine uses 105gr A-max in a 6mm Rem AI and it works for him. Doesn't often get bullets to exit on fallow though, but they are pushed pretty quick (3250+).

I have started using the 123gr in 6.5mm and IMHO they work better at slower speeds (2850fps).

However, you will still get the occasional 'pencil' pass through on neck shots, especially if you miss the spine.

Kabluey--Based on your vast keyboard experience it probably would be hard to pick a bullet that would be worse. In the real world they have worked 100%.

quote:

Originally posted by carpetman1:
Kabluey--Based on your vast keyboard experience it probably would be hard to pick a bullet that would be worse. In the real world they have worked 100%.

If this is the real world.....then you haven't lived there very long!

Vapodog--When Texas joined the union it was a nation on it's own and thus kept the undeeded land. This land mostly was sold, so there is very little public land in Texas. Unlike most other states, a person can't go most anywhere in the state and find federal land to hunt on. In most instances, hunters have to pay a pretty steep price to lease a place to hunt. This pretty much confines hunters to one area where they hunt. I have been lucky indeed that my son in law inherited a very large place and I have been able to hunt there for over 25 years. This means I pretty much know everyone that hunts there and what they shoot. In past several years, I have seen a very fair number of deer taken with .22 centerfire, in both .222 and .223. These were using 55grain Winchester bulk packed bullets--I know as I loaded them. There have also been several shot with .243 using same bullet in 100 grain. The results have far exceeded my expectations and were very contrary to what I would have thought without seeing it myself. I consider that real world and over 25 years is a fairly long time.

quote:

Originally posted by Jim C. <><:
Well, the A series aren't game bullets but a hole in the right place will surely kill deer. ??

thanks Jim - You have just explained bullet failure resulting in dead animals.

quote:

Originally posted by carpetman1:
In the real world they have worked 100%. These were using 55grain Winchester bulk packed bullets--I know as I loaded them. I consider that real world and over 25 years is a fairly long time.

That's a pretty tall claim, even for a Texan.

KB

A few weeks back, I was talking with my new 'smith who associates with quite a few folks who are LR hunters. The rifle he was getting ready to work on for me is in 6.5x47 Lapua. He mentioned the use of the 123 Match King in 6.5mm for elk. I was shocked. He said as long as one keeps the impact distance at 300+ yds, it's an absolute killer, when kept in the heart/lung area on elk and knows several hunters who have successfully used it. So, I'm actually thinking of using it this Fall on a Montana elk/deer/antelope trip I have coming up. To prevent my use of the bullet within 300 yds, I plan on using some other bullet (maybe a partition) within 300 yds. My little 6.5x47 really likes the 100 PT and will keep 5-shots within 1 MOA running 3325 fps.

Alan

Stay away from the shoulders and I don't see that bullet posing a problem in killing a deer. I have a friend on another board that uses AMAX bullets in several calibers on deer and hog quite often (lots of critter control for some rancher friends) and the dead animals always seem to be dead enough.

FWIW.....I'm now 66 and have hunted deer since I was 15.....and in that time I've taken more than one deer with a 16.25" barreled .222 with a generic 55 grain soft point.....and can assure one and all that this has worked.....and yes I did it in Texas.....

I've also killed deer with target grade bullets such as Sierra Matchking and Horndy Amax.....I know that quite a few deer are killed with such bullets every year and given reasonable shots the target bullets are quite devastating to a deer...

Then one day I was admitted to "the real world" when I happened to have a real shot at A trophy mule deer.....the shot presentation was primarily the anus with the back of the head with some extremely impressive antlers sticking up.....the only good shot was going to be up the poop chute.....and I just happened to be standing less than 100 yards away with a .300 H&H loaded with 200 grain A-Frames.....I should have taken the shot but waited for a much better chance to drive one into the boiler room.....and the chance never happened....the deer walked off and I didn't get a chance.....

To this day I believe the large A-Frame would have dropped that deer....but this much I can say with certainty having seen the results of the target grade bullets...any attempt would have led to a wounded deer that likely would have died in the next county.....and found only by coyotes looking for a free meal.

Folks using the wrong bullets will kill a lot of animals and post their success.....but some day you too will be invited into the real world and you'll wish you had a hunting grade bullet.....

Yes.....you might also bag a trophy deer with an A-Max...but once you have the opportunity posed to me.....you'll never hunt with them again.

I had a similar experience over 30 years ago when I took a 22-250 with the 55gn Nosler Solid Base (forunner to the balistic tip)looking for a deer.
The only one I saw was about 90yds away but was standing, as Vapodogs was, facing directly away from me with its head down over a log feeding. I lay still for quite some time thinking I would put one into the back of its head when it put its head up but it must have cought a swilr in the wind as its head came up as it leapt over the log into the bush only feet in front of it. Never taken a light bulleted rifle anywhere near deer after that. The GS Customs might be a game chamger with a friend reporting a shot taken from the same direction and distance with the 120gn GS in his 7-08. They make a 95gn GS that will get to 2850fps. For Kabluewy with his Grendel.
6.5 Grendel 264095HV134 9 ADI AR 2207 23 2850

http://www.gsgroup.co.za/hvloadsmall.html

When I used to fish bass tournys, the conventional wisdom was to rig for the largest bass you hoped to catch in the worst conditions you might encounter.
That's also sound wisdom for hunting.
I'd hate to travel 1000 miles and spend several hundred dollars with my "look at me, look at me" popgun only to see the trophy of a lifetime and have to pass up the shot because the rifle I was carrying wasn't up to the task.

Finally enough snow has melted so I can get to the 100 yd range. It's still pretty lonesome out there. I tested my 6.5 Grendel again with several 120gr loads.

Then for comparison I shot a group with some Hornady factory loads again, and none of my handloads got better groups. That may not be saying much, but I still like that Hornady ammo. It exited the deer I got with it last season. I like the ammo because it's not expensive and it's accurate and it will kill deer and hogs. However, for handloads I think I like the 100gr TTSXs better.

I also still believe in picking your shots. So far I've not made a Texas heart shot, and probably never will. They don't call it a Texas heart shot for nothing. I think it would take quite a bullet to penetrate through the guts to the vitals, and it would create a huge mess.

I've never done it, but a hit at the base of the tail, basically a spine shot, will do the job of putting the deer on the ground so a clean finishing shot is possible. But that's still a precision shot, and rather messy. I think that's an avoidable shot, and should be avoided. I have had at least two such memorable shots presented by big bucks, and don't regret having passed.

With the 100gr 6.5mm TTSX bullets I can get over 2700 fps out of the Grendel. I think that's plenty adequate for the biggest deer, not a TX heart shot though. It sure whacked those sitka deer around here last fall.

In my opinion, comparing the 123gr A-Max to 223 bullets isn't right. It's not a good comparison, IMO.

I'm saving up my money for a 6.5 Grendel upper for my R-15.

vapodog--with the shot presented, I think you did the real world thing--you passed the shot. I have passed a lot of shots and can honestly say not one would I have tried if I had a bigger gun, different bullet or anything else. If it's not right--pass.

I've had some good success shooting some medium sized mule deer with fast stepping .22 centerfires. I've loaded 50g Nosler Ballistic Tips in the 22-250 and 40g. NBT in a .223. The 22-250 is moving out at 3800fps and the .223 at 3925fps.

One fall day one of our sons and I were hunting mule deer and took an off road into some good country. We spotted a smaller mule deer buck about 250 yards down in a canyon looking straight away from us and stopped the truck. He was intent on looking at something further down the canyon and we got ready with a 22-250. I had shot about 60-80 rockchucks with the rifle that spring at distances from 200-375 yards and the rifle was a .5 incher. Just put the rifle in a nice solid rest and the crosshairs on the back of his head. No wind and DRT. When we went down there to get him and picked him up by the antlers they were both loose in his head. The bullet had entered right in the middle of his head from the back and the antlers flopped to the outside. It was an impressive display of what velocity and accuracy can do.

If you don't think you can make the shot....don't take it.