My grandkids started with a matched pair of youth H&R Handirifles in 22 and 223. They match so well I have to check closely to make sure which one I am getting out of the safe.

Regarding scopes vs iron sights, I advocated learning the basics -- "position, sight alignment, trigger squeeze" for about 50 years.

In recent years, I stumbled over two insights. First, optical sights have become ubiquitous, with optical sights becoming commonly found in even front line military weapons.

Second, and more telling, when training a new shooter, more effort usually goes into teaching how to align the sights, focus on sight vs target, etc. So, I have come around to thinking it is best to start with an optical sight so the new shooter can concentrate on the rest of the shooting equation.

Then, if the interest in using iron sjights exists, start out by sharing the knowledge that the average eye can hold about 1 minute of angle with iron sights. That means they can be very effective and worth the added effort in some circumstances.

Just this week. I had a friend and his 14 year old daughter visit from overseas. She had never held a gun in her life. Got her on the bench with a regular size 22 and from that she moved up to a 223.

I was amazed how well she shot. At 50 yards one ragged hole with 20 rounds from the 22 and then a half inch 4 shot group with the 223. She is a natural shot. Amazing!

quote:

Originally posted by bluefish:
Any help here? Looking for input. 10 y/o girl standing about 4'9", 75 lbs average build.

Remington 510, safety goes on when the bolt closes. The 510P has a decent peep sight, the 510X a little better barrel.

I have found an ar with an adjustable stock, nice ergonomic furniture, eotec sight and suppressor is an excellent rifle to introduce anyone to shooting.

Just need to get over the whole assault rifle thing and use 5 round flush magazines.

Mike

JA smith,
A scope is like a crutch, once most folks use a scope they never consider learning to shoot irons, Seems a shame, I know so many hunters who have never fired a rifle without a scope..but to each his own, its all opinion...

I was introduced to grey squirrel hunting at 12 years old. Dad would not permit a scope on the Mossberg .22 rimfire. We used the peep sight and quickly learned to hit them in the head.

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson:
JA smith,
A scope is like a crutch, once most folks use a scope they never consider learning to shoot irons, Seems a shame, I know so many hunters who have never fired a rifle without a scope..but to each his own, its all opinion...

Spoken like a fellow ancient wise man...

I'd let her tell me. I would try to find friends and relatives that had various calibers. I would show them to her. Explain stuff to her. And let her shoot what she was brave enough to shoot. Then I'd let her pick.
Kids like to pick their own stuff.

Having said that, I would certainly show her a Winchester 70 classic compact with the short barrel and compact stock. I don't know all of the calibers it comes in, but mine is a .308, and I have let many a kid shoot that gun to see if they liked it, and most have said yes.

http://www.winchesterguns.com/...rweight-compact.html

Me? I would find her a used .223 or .243 bolt action rifle. Determine her length of pull and have a smith cut down the stock and install a pad and shorten the barrel to 16.5-18 inches so the rifle balances better. Take the young lady to a hardware store and pick out her favorite color of spray paint and paint the stock. This will instill in her it is HER rifle. Install an uncomplicated 4X scope. Make sure she is wearing good ear and eye protection and teach her the basics.
DO NOT have her fire any centerfire from a prone position until she is older/bigger.
Good luck

Al Veoli--Was that Mossberg with a peep sight perhaps a military training model? We had a Mossberg .22 so equipped that was a military trainer.

Carpetman1 -- You are correct. Dad was in the Army Airforce stationed in North Africa. The Mossberg trainer was a real squirrel getter and was used by all of my brothers too. I think we all asked Dad to put a scope on it and he always gave the same response. Lots of good memories.

Al Veoli--You are going way back. The Air Force was no longer the Army Air Force after 1947.
My dad was an electrician and did a wiring job for Cook's Army Surplus store in Wichita Falls, Tx.(home of Shepperd Air Force Base). This was in the early 50's. Cook's had several of the Mossberg training rifles for the then pricey sum of $22.50. After much deliberation, my dad bought one---I still have it. In about 1957 a new store, Fedway opened up and it was the first store in Wichita Falls to have an escalator. First one I had ever seen. Dad bought a High Standard Duramatic .22 pistol there for wow $37.50.

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson:
JA smith,
A scope is like a crutch, once most folks use a scope they never consider learning to shoot irons, Seems a shame, I know so many hunters who have never fired a rifle without a scope..but to each his own, its all opinion...

I have helped many young people learn shooting basics, but always with a scope. Kids today do not have the temperment for trying some thing over and over and over, till they get it correct. They would sooner quit and try some thing different. The scope helps with the instant gratifacation the youth of today seem to think they should be entitled to.
The first rifle my son shot was the shorter barrel Cz 452 in 22 with a little 2-7 Leupold on top.
Poor boy had to learn on a rifle with a backwards safety ( sorry Stony ), be he did learn the fine art of other safety mechanisms.
FS

I got my kids a pre-64 Winchester 243 featherweight. At $1000, not cheap, but not junk either. Shortened the stock and it has worked well, having taken many deer and a bear by kids aged 6-9 years old.

About starting a shooter with a scope or optical sight.

I introduced my grandson to shooting with 2 rifles, a pistol and a revolver. One rifle had a scope (my ancient Mossberg 152) the other had a peep sight (my Haenel falling block). The handguns had iron sighs.

I don’t see this “sight controversy” as “either or”.

FWIW. He loved the Haenel, and liked the Mossberg. And he shot very well with all of them.

quote:

Originally posted by Hook:
My grandkids started with a matched pair of youth H&R Handirifles in 22 and 223. They match so well I have to check closely to make sure which one I am getting out of the safe.

I think starting with a single shot is an excellent idea. Teach them to make those shots count right out of the gate!

One thing we need to keep in mind. Keep the recoil relative. What is mild to you may not be to a youngster. You use a 16 pound bowling ball thus a 14 pounder is light. The youth might consider a 12 pounder as very heavy.

Well, I, as the OP, appreciate the responses. Time moving the way it does we have only gotten to the point of Hunter's Safety this year. However, my daughter has two buddies who want to do it as well with the support of their parents.

Beginning this week, I will be happy to lead these future huntresses through the online portion of the course materials in anticipation of the in class work which begins 10/15/19.

I did not see anyone mention the 300 BlackOut. If you already have an AR, a new upper is a cheap addition. With sub-sonic practice loads, it has no recoil, and very little more with supersonic 125 grain soft points that are good deer loads out to 200 or so yards. Most folks buy carbines with adjustable stocks anyway, so that covers the length issue, put a red dot site on it and you are ready to go.

quote:

Originally posted by lee440:
I did not see anyone mention the 300 BlackOut. If you already have an AR, a new upper is a cheap addition. With sub-sonic practice loads, it has no recoil, and very little more with supersonic 125 grain soft points that are good deer loads out to 200 or so yards. Most folks buy carbines with adjustable stocks anyway, so that covers the length issue, put a red dot site on it and you are ready to go.

I started my son off with a S&W 15-22 with a red dot, suppressor, and bipod. He loved the adjustable stock and that he didn't have to support the whole weight of the gun and we could focus on sight picture, trigger, and breathing. After a full summer of that we switched to a 9.5" AR in 300 blackout with a suppressor, the same optic, same bipod, and 130 grain x-bullets. He didn't even comment on the difference between them.

Of course he does have a 25-20 DR waiting in the safe for when he's a bit older, but that's another story...

Bob

I see too many shooters today that have not shot iron sights, have never jumped a big buck out of the bush or out from under a rimrock and shot that big boy with a snap shot with a iron sighted 30-30 or whatever..Too bad.

Ive seen so many that the only animals they have shot was out the pickup window or over the hood with a sandbag rest and 4x14 5 lb. scope, or out of a blind like a Sat morning TV show.. and its obvious they have never had to step off a horse jerk the carbine out of a saddle scabbard and take a running shot at a big buck bounding down hill in a hurry, It just seems a shame that someone that loves to hunt has allowed themselves to miss this..Some Im sure have not had those opertunities, and that's even a bigger shame, but most could rectify that situation if they truly wanted to..

It is an old post, and the original poster probably has a gun or two for his little girl, but here is my input, anyway.

We have 5 kids, a girl who is 17 and four boys, 12, 10, 9, and 7. We started our daughter with a pink Cricket. We started with the peep sights, then put a scope on it. The Cricket is a cheap, junky rifle, but it works. The Savage Rascal is a much better quality rifle. The Cricket peep sights were good enough for us. The stock is made for open sights, so there is no cheek weld with the scope. The good points, it is very small, light and handy. My undersized 7 year old handles it well. No-one thinks it is heavy, and these kids complain that everything is too heavy. Junk or not, I tend to grab the Cricket first if something needs too be shot in the yard, and that is pretty often on the farm. Every kid in our family, and all the kids that visit, start off with the Cricket after the BB gun.

Last year I bought a Smith and Wesson M&P 15-22 with open sights. With a 10 round magazine off the bench, the adjustable stock and light weight lets every one in the family shoot it. It is now the next step after the Cricket.

#1 son (12) was given a full size Henry 22 by my late father's friend when the boy was 10. It was too big for a year, now it is perfect. The lever action was perfect since it is ambidextrous. This boy, like his mother, is right handed and left eye dominant. I plan to keep him in lever actions, eventually his late grandfather's Savage 99.

#2 son (10) received a full size Savage bolt action 22 with a removable magazine and scope. I am sure we will be buying more magazines, that kid looses things. It is still a little long for him, but he is very tall and growing fast.

#3 son, (9) started with the Cricket and 15-22. Last week I had him on my Remington 512X on the bench. When he turns 10, I think I will give him his Grandfather's Marlin tube magazine semi auto (I don't remember the model.)

#4 son (7) just started on the Cricket.

For hunting deer, I started my wife with a NEF Handi rifle in .243. It had lock-up problems and didn't shoot well enough, plus I think the noise bothered her. I bought a .44 magnum barrel for it, which is now the standard starting deer rifle for us. The 44 is much quieter than a bottle neck round, kills well, and handloading means I can make cheap, quiet, low-recoil rounds and hunting rounds. The break action and hammer make it ambidextrous, which is important to us. #1 son killed his first deer with it last year, #2 son killed his first this week. My wife has killed two big bucks with it. NEF/H&R is gone now, but Henry is now making a similar rifle.

#1 son got his second deer last night with my Remington 700 mountain rifle in .260 Remington. I had him prepared with the .260, a Savage 110 in .243, a Marlin 336 30-30, and the 44 mag Handi. He chose the .260 because it is light, the scope is better, the safety is easier to manipulate than the Savage, and it is light and handy. Recoil and noise don't bother this kid, much. He shot the right handed gun lefty, which would have slowed down a second shot, but he didn't need it.


We don't shoot much paper. I have an assortment of hanging gongs, spinners, and bottles. We all enjoy shooting things that jump and clang more than shooting groups. I have a 50 yard range near the house that is easy to get to, so we use it a lot. The two youngest have been shooting the BB gun at water bottles and cans from the porch. Young kids don't care about groups, and missing the bulls eye on a paper target makes them feel bad. The reactive targets are more fun and make more confident hunters.

Good luck!

It should be a single shot of some description. The idea is to make the first shot count, not to blaze away. And ss is much more intuitive, from a safety perspective.

As to caliber, hard to argue that it should not be a 22LR. If you are willing to reload, a 25-20 is more versatile.

Don't rush into C/F. Targets, squirrels, woodchucks for at least a year.

Ear muffs or plugs are mandatory from the start.

if not 22lr (10/22 .. just do it) then

model 7 youth or savagae axis ii youth in 223 ... i expect you reload, but if not, there are reduced loads (reduced for noise is how i would load it)

She and her buddies passed Hunter Safety. They decided they like 22s right now. Looking at the cz scout as a trainer.

Will be picking up the CZ Scout and just got a good deal on a Handi Rifle in 243 Youth model.

CZ 452 22lr , you will not be sorry

For cz rifles check with Whithakers guns in Kentucky.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Atkinson:
I see too many shooters today that have not shot iron sights, have never jumped a big buck out of the bush or out from under a rimrock and shot that big boy with a snap shot with a iron sighted 30-30 or whatever..Too bad.
QUOTE]

Craig Boddington did an article about this a few years ago. I don't remember which gun rag.

He said that both Brittany and Caroline had never fired a rifle without a scope, and he doubted they ever would.

I can't see any reason to introduce a child to open sights, especially a young one.

The simpiler a scope reticle the better. We have a red dot chevron scope on a kids rifle just for them. They can all figure it out. 3 girls 4, 6, and 8.

Maybe a teenage shooting for the first time open sights would work.

I never fired a rifle with a scope until I was probably 10 or 12. A scope was a revelation.

I have less than 20/450 vision in both eyes do not have a way to correct it to 20-20. A child could have poor vision and you'd never know it. A scope can make a world of difference.

To almost quote Samuel Clemons "Grabbing a cat by the tail, teaches us things that we can't learn any other way" The same could be said about learning to use iron sights.

quote:

Originally posted by lee440:
I did not see anyone mention the 300 BlackOut. If you already have an AR, a new upper is a cheap addition. With sub-sonic practice loads, it has no recoil, and very little more with supersonic 125 grain soft points that are good deer loads out to 200 or so yards. Most folks buy carbines with adjustable stocks anyway, so that covers the length issue, put a red dot site on it and you are ready to go.

Late to the post, but +1 on the 300 Blackout. Started both boys on .22LR, then .223, then up form there. The last, my daughter, however, I started with a .22LR, then a .300 Blackout, suppressed. The boys didn't seem to react so much to increased recoil and noise, but my daughter does. The suppressed .300 Blackout works great - negligible recoil and noise, but nice performance at reasonable ranges.